Product Chat (Early Access) / multiple behaviors

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A.C
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Posted: 27th Aug 2022 13:19
is it possible to add multiple behaviors to the same character ?
or are we limited to 1 behavior by asset ?
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UNIRD12B
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Posted: 27th Aug 2022 14:04
why not just add in the
extra behaviours you would like
your entity to accomplish to
the base behaviour you have chosen ?

UNIRD12B
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Teabone
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Posted: 27th Aug 2022 16:47
What exactly are you trying to accomplish with multiple behaviors? You mentioned characters, are you trying to give characters different AI instructions?
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 27th Aug 2022 17:10
Giving me a headache just trying to imagine how this would work.

Let's say you have a block and you want it to behave like a sliding door, so you attach the sliding door behaviour.

But then you think that sometimes you want it to act like a rotating door so you also attach the rotating door behaviour.

How does the object know which behaviour to use when?
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UNIRD12B
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Posted: 27th Aug 2022 22:09
How does the object know which behaviour to use when?

can you not use an A-B choice command ?

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A.C
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Posted: 28th Aug 2022 00:26
i have an animated dog i want my dog to do many things on certain commands, when this do that, if this do that else do something else.
every game engine have this simple AI or behaviors or actions to deal with such things.
its the basic of the basics in any game engine.
how to do that in GGM ?
thats why i need to assign multiple behaviors ?
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synchromesh
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Posted: 28th Aug 2022 00:59 Edited at: 28th Aug 2022 01:01
Quote: "every game engine have this simple AI or behaviors or actions to deal with such things."

Unfortunately you can only assign one behavior to each dynamic asset.
As for every other engine im guessing its all down to a script. Press 1 .. Fetch bone etc
Course i could be wrong as usual
But im probably close.
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 28th Aug 2022 09:56 Edited at: 28th Aug 2022 10:01
Quote: "can you not use an A-B choice command ?"


Where are you going to put it?

You would need some sort of control script you could attach to the entity to tell it which behaviour to use and when!

Quote: "how to do that in GGM ?"


Learn Lee's weird behaviour editor, I'm assuming that is how he expects users to do it.
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3com
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Posted: 28th Aug 2022 10:03
I think he wants to run anims such as char does (walk, jump, run, etc) each key run an animation.
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 28th Aug 2022 12:59
Take a look at the mammal_generic.lua script, that will show you how to do it from Lua if you can't figure out Lee's behaviour editor thingy.

If you make sure your dog model has the same named animations as the stock mammals then the script will work for you to some extent, you probably don't need all the complex stuff in the script so you will need to identify the parts you need and comment out or delete the bits you don't need.
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A.C
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Posted: 28th Aug 2022 23:53 Edited at: 29th Aug 2022 02:42
here is an example (attached) how its been done in coppercube, you can do this for every asset.

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JC LEON
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Posted: 29th Aug 2022 21:26
coppercube is a nice tool ...sadly withl little t ono community and not supported at all
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Teabone
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Posted: 29th Aug 2022 22:48 Edited at: 30th Aug 2022 03:20
I can also see where the confusion is coming from . GGMax calls Lua scripts "behaviors".

GGMax doesn't really have "Behaviors" per-say. In the original conceptualizing stage of GGMax, before we got a look at the engine , Lee once mention he was interesting in the possibility of having various "behaviors" that the player could select for AI and chain them into different actions. Im assuming like a visual blue print. I'm not sure what happened to that, as I felt that would work best for AI.

Presently, AI is sort of out of the box in a way that you can only use it as is unless you jump into the Lua scripts. If your not ready to jump into Lua, my suggestion is wait a couple years and see if they develop a way for users (without code as they advertise) to configure behaviors creatively to do as users desire.
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3com
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Posted: 30th Aug 2022 00:04
@ A.C
TBH I have no idea how it works (old school here ) but may be worth the try, run test mode, and when done then press :
TAB + TAB + Edit behavior button.
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A.C
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Posted: 30th Aug 2022 00:38
@JC LEON unfortunately you are right its not supported but it is a very nice tool.

@Teabone this is exactly what i am trying to figure out and you said it perfectly, there is something critical missing
in GGM, we need some system that can cover the totality of things like blueprint in unreal or bolt in unity so called visual scripting,
or something clever like coppercube implemented.
otherwise we cannot do anything for any asset we desire it to do and we are limited by those so called behaviors.
i hope some changing course will take place to fix this issue and a new system will be implemented soon.
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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 30th Aug 2022 02:14
Yeah, you're nearly there. Penn and Teller retired long ago doing this.
Simple, put 4 or 5 or 6 or 7 animals on the map,
get someone handy (I won't be writing any more GGMAx scripts) -- people steal my scripts and give them out for free to TGC to put in MAX - what a crock!
have someone that likes to do free work make you a quick and dirty swap animals script
Boom, send one animal to the moon (figuratively speaking)
the new animal appearing in it's place now has a new behavior.
Boom... repeat as much fun as you can handle.
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Teabone
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Posted: 30th Aug 2022 03:42 Edited at: 30th Aug 2022 03:52
Quote: "(I won't be writing any more GGMAx scripts) -- people steal my scripts and give them out for free to TGC to put in MAX - what a crock!
"


I had actually thought this happened with some scripts I wrote as well. But mostly just their concepts. I hope anyways.

But yeah your right, only way to really get multiple "behaviors" working, is to modify or create a combo script in Lua. (other ways too via lua but I wont get into all that jargen here since this isn't the scripting section of the forums. Though for an engine that is marketing off "no need for coding" I would assume there might be around this in the future.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 30th Aug 2022 12:10 Edited at: 30th Aug 2022 12:17
Quote: " people steal my scripts and give them out for free to TGC to put in MAX - what a crock!"

If you can name the scripts in question i will have this further investigated and removed if this is in fact the case.
Meanwhile you requested a refund not wanting the Steam Version.
This can be done via Customer Support who will be happy to accommodate your request.
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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 30th Aug 2022 19:58
@ Synchromesh
A> So here I am helping someone expand the ladder script I wrote for what I thought was for personal use in GG Classic....
B> Granted, I 'gave' it to the GG Classic community....

B> In this thread-
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/223296
it might look like I was indifferent with Lee receiving the ladder script for inclusion in GGMax. But that detail basically skipped my attention and my response was that wasn't my intention.... It would need further work if so.

C> Shortly afterward I noticed it released to the GGMax Github by that particular 'X' user....

D> I was moderately surprised and shocked that nobody cared to ask if it was okay. If I was asked, then I'm sure I would have just said go ahead, though credit would have been nice to see. (I'm not the only one involved, but credit those who request credit.)

In reality, people like AmenMoses (this script also includes his work in the form of his physics library snippets) could be credited also-- which goes for practically anything under the GG sun that uses many newer script functions. And the unnamed user that utilized and submitted it, that's up to them to follow through.

It's best to ask anyone involved if they are okay with a profit earning company to put said personal work into said company's profit making product without compensation or even credit.

At this point, it's just a silly little script, on my part the script took no more than 5-6 hours (because I might get stuck on a particular problem). Therefore, it's not a major script that took weeks of work. So I formally state "do what you will with it."

But if this is the behavior on TGC part, of forum members sneaking forum submitted scripts into GGMAX-- and a reputation for such behavior is commonplace, then I very much have issue with that. It's deplorable. Always ask. 9/10 times they will say "Ehhhh, it's good, no problem. Glad you asked."
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Teabone
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Posted: 30th Aug 2022 20:12
The excuse i got from one of the members of the community is that "scripts are mods". Therefore there are is no ownership... additionally that scripts shouldn't be also sold separately. Despite that being the case with literally every engine in market since the 90's (that yes scripts can have ownership and can also be sold).

Anyone can recreate a script that someone else wrote. No rules around that. Just sometimes the intention to recreate something to undermine someone else's efforts can be seen as offensive or rude. And well it is in my opinion, if its done purely in spite towards someone. This has happened to me some years back.

When it comes to scripts in general typically send scripts directly to people that truly need them via DM/PM, directly, no sales, or anything just help them with their games. If you post it publicly it could end up anywhere, even right in the engine.
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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 30th Aug 2022 20:14
Part 2.... oh no...uggg not more Part 2 might even be better.

A> After the ladder script, the user 'X' PM'd me and asked for script help on a particular problem.
B> I told him that I had written a platform script more than a year ago and that he should look into doing 'this or that'- but that I wasn't available to help because I was too busy (and that was true.) But I had already noticed the ladder script posted on Github. So I was not a happy welfare provider.
C> He told me that it wasn't for platforms, (*yeah right*, what he asked was specific for platform behavior). I wouldn't be helping though I had a full platform script on my computer already.
D> I suppose he worked out the problem because shortly afterword... low and behold a platform script was submitted.

That's his script, not mine. But this is part two of shady and disturbing script behaviors in TGC/ GG forums.
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Teabone
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Posted: 30th Aug 2022 20:20 Edited at: 30th Aug 2022 20:26
The excuse i got from one of the members of the community is that "scripts are mods". Therefore there are is no ownership... additionally that scripts shouldn't be also sold separately. Despite that being the case with literally every engine in market since the 90's (that yes scripts can have ownership and can also be sold).

Anyone can recreate a script that someone else wrote. No rules or laws again that. Just sometimes the intention to recreate something to undermine someone else's efforts can be seen as offensive or rude. And well it is in my opinion, if its done purely in spite towards someone or to harm sales (if its a marketed item). This has happened to me some years back.

When it comes to scripts in general typically send scripts directly to people that truly need them via DM/PM, directly, no sale, or anything just help them with making their games. If you post it publicly it could end up anywhere. Or someone could manipulate it, resell or just claim it as their own. Or send that off for direct inclusion in the engine.

I used to only make scripts for the community and that quickly got abused by members reselling them or just taking advantage of my time. That is the only reason why i started selling some scripts. To protect my work that I did spent some time on. I'll still make scripts for free for the community, but again, i don't publicly post them, i just send by PM/DM. Make sure to add a comment on any script you make that is public that says "made by". However this wont stop someone from looking at your script.. and just recreating it and sharing it so yours is forgotten about or buried. There is also nothing "wrong" from that from community perspective since they benefit from those actions anyways.

There is basically nothing you can do about this. I've been there and I know it feels terrible, but you have to just sort of accept it in this type of area of community game dev. Its extremely demotivating. But it is what it is. We should get back to the original topic though of multi-behaviors.
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Shadow_Master
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Posted: 30th Aug 2022 22:14 Edited at: 30th Aug 2022 22:16
@ GubbyBlips, @ Teabone,

I am sorry that some have done that to you, guys. AmenMose made some great scripts for my private use and I asked him it I could share his work (Glue script, and My stand and speak script) I also credited him for those as well because he is the one that made those in the first place.

There are stuff in my levels that I got for free off sketchfab and they make it clear, for anyone to use those assets in their games the original artist must be credited which is the right thing to do.

1 - they spent their own time on making the script/assets
2 - legally they still own the script/asset
3 - no one will help you if you betray them by posting scripts/assets that you receive from those that you had asked to help.

I still learning lua scripts and GG Max, I just do not understand why someone would publish it without asking the original author permission first. Without them there would be no script/assets for you to use for free. It they time, money, and knowledge that made those assets and/or scripts for your lvl.

I said my peace
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synchromesh
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Posted: 31st Aug 2022 01:07 Edited at: 31st Aug 2022 01:10
@Gubbyblips
I see an original Ladder Script submitted with Credit to Gubbyblips and X
Regarding the platform script i supplied X with a Platform script i had from GameGuru which was created for me and i paid for and im sure was what X used as reference or maybe part of the code which i said he was welcome to use.
So other than that ... Is it just the Ladder script you have a problem with.
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Necrym59
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Posted: 31st Aug 2022 04:59
I am very reticent to reply to any of this but let me make things clear the ladder script was a basic effort from GubbyBlips i started to play with to try to make a generic script it got so far then i went further it has gone through 23 iterations before being what it is now, most of the original was gone as it was rewritten a few times mainly with help from AmenMoses. I have given credit to both on the git hub where it was developed even further and then offered to Lee for use as it was a needed thing for users. I do not want or ever ask for payment or even credit for the ones i do and im make sure that any input in any way from others is credited.
As for similarilarity to ideas or uses thats just anyones guess, there is only so many ways to skin a potato. I make scripts for the fun of doing them (especially for my sons who enjoy it), just as others enjoy doing modelling or graphics and offering them as free items for others.
I want to see Max become a great game maker. Im not the best scripter out there by any means, Amen and Smallg especially are very gifted.
As for me I beleive scripts for the most part should be free as its just part of an existing engines capability, however that being said there is nothing stopping people to charge for a script especially if its a complex one and especially if its specialised and uses its own assets and time spent to create, its up to the individual if they feel they should be compensated, in such a case I would in particular try to avoid to undercut or cover the ground that script does, as it would be bad form in my opinion. Anyway this is the last post i will make on the matter, i just had to clarify some sad misconceptions. Enjoy Max and its exceptional potential.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 31st Aug 2022 11:58 Edited at: 1st Sep 2022 19:49
@Necrym59
Thanks for the info it helps.
@Gubbyblips
Being an old Classic free script as you stated re-written for Max specifically now 23 times which by the way does not even work in classic in its current form as i tried it and you were credited for the original concept so i really do not see any issue here.

Now back to the topic in hand.

Quote: "here is an example (attached) how its been done in coppercube, you can do this for every asset."

So then you select a behaviour for the asset to do when clicked ..
But from what i can see its the same .. you can only select one thing \ script to happen when clicked ?
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mikeven
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Posted: 12th Sep 2022 11:01
Reply to the request referenced in the title of A.C.'s topic : "multiple behaviors"

Before I became a more active member of GameGuru MAX forum I was an active user of CopperCube ( I own a license of the Pro Version).
And indeed as stated by A.C. additional comment, multiple behaviors can be applied on an asset in CopperCube ( a game engine the scripting language of which is Java Script ).

Since a few months I seriously improved my knowledge of Lua Script and I discovered that it is possible to assign multiple behaviors with an indirect method in GameGuru MAX. Furthermore as shown in the referenced video (link below) it is possible to assign a single behavior to multiple assets. That video shows the use of both methods in a demo project.

I must admit that the understanding of those intricate use of tables for that purpose is not easy and it is surely not advisable for a user who has no programming skill.
But it could be an interesting approach for a programmer who (like me) wants more freedom with a "ready to use / plug and play" game engine like GameGuru MAX.

https://vimeo.com/748711079

Thanks for watching.


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A.C
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Posted: 13th Sep 2022 03:07
@mikeven He is advertising GGM as a non coding engine and he has no idea how to do that, leaving us with some
limited behaviors that he is creating for children to do their zombie like games.
if i need to learn coding i will choose unity or unreal engine its much easier.
its like building a car without engine this is what GGM is until now.
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mikeven
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Posted: 13th Sep 2022 10:32 Edited at: 13th Sep 2022 10:37
Hello A.C.
Thank you for your reaction to my comment.

I'm afraid that I misled you with my horribly complicated script.
I would suggest you to visit this thread https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/223599 in this forum.
The member 'mguy1122' created that video game in a record time with GameGuru MAX. I don't know if he participated to any competitions sponsored by the GG MAX Team, but personally I was impressed by the originality and by the quality of his game (WIP) most probably created without any additional scripts than those provided by GG MAX Team.
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