Product Chat (Early Access) / AO really helps!

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Mr.WitherStorm
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Posted: 24th Apr 2022 22:11
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Mr.WitherStorm
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Posted: 24th Apr 2022 22:13
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osiem80
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Posted: 24th Apr 2022 22:27
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i noticed that the texture quality of the stock assets are low thats another reason why MAX doesnt look AAA
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Harkin Hails M.
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Posted: 28th Apr 2022 20:54
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AO does indeed help, more visible in shots I took on Git for testing.


AO On
AO Off

Switch between images in tab.
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science boy
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Posted: 29th Apr 2022 10:59
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Tbh my self created medieval houses have increased the whole look by about 500 percent
I have also realised this is what they took out of classic.

They never really told us but after my probing with them they did reveal they removed a shader for framerates. suddenly the whole look went plastic and fake and went from about AA standard to 1970 standards

I remember it was one update the whole map looked fantastic then the next update they removed a process as it was destroying the fps and the tantrum laltop brigade didn't like it. So this is what they removed i have just realised.

A much needed part of game development
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Harkin Hails M.
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Posted: 29th Apr 2022 12:03
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I'm guessing this is the regular SSAO.

I wonder if they'll work on adding something like HBAO and other AO techniques with superior results.

I don't think there is a sharpening filter as well for FXAA. It's sorely needed to avoid Vaseline look.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 29th Apr 2022 12:16 Edited at: 29th Apr 2022 12:16
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Quote: "I'm guessing this is the regular SSAO."

They tried them all. ( we had them in the test build )
but MSAO was the one that gave notable improvements so that is what it is using now i believe.
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Harkin Hails M.
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Posted: 29th Apr 2022 16:14
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Ah I didn't know that, well, all's good then (I was too lazy to try test builds).

Better than not having any SSAO.
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 29th Apr 2022 18:12 Edited at: 29th Apr 2022 18:16
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Quote: "I don't think there is a sharpening filter as well for FXAA. It's sorely needed to avoid Vaseline look."


No, but they also have MSAA as an option with several "levels" of that you can use. So, at least there are a few options for anti-aliasing.

Quote: "I'm guessing this is the regular SSAO."


They have chosen to use MSAO for MAX.
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Harkin Hails M.
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Posted: 29th Apr 2022 21:50 Edited at: 29th Apr 2022 21:51
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MSAA is useless on 1060. Takes away 5-7 FPS, not worth it. I've been checking performance every build here for a reason.

And since most Steam users still use 1060, any game forcing it on is going to be destroyed in reviews, esp a GameGuru game.
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science boy
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Posted: 29th Apr 2022 22:45
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I have a 970 and no issues with it in at present but not got today's build
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Mr.WitherStorm
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Posted: 30th Apr 2022 02:00
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Somewhat measly attempt at realism but I think it gets the job done, also as I was playing around with these concrete walls I noticed something. There seems to be GI in the engine currently, I haven't heard anything of this and I saw it on Github as a future feature but it's definitely in the engine in some capacity currently.
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Harkin Hails M.
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Posted: 30th Apr 2022 11:45
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Mr.WitherStorm wrote: "There seems to be GI in the engine currently, I haven't heard anything of this"


I thought I heard Lee mention GI in one of the first few YouTube Broadcasts. I assumed they would be adding it in soon, because visuals look like GG Classic with slight upgrade, at the moment. GI is a must, like AO was.

Have you seen dynamic GI in Unreal 5, it's mind blowing.
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OldFlak
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Posted: 30th Apr 2022 16:30 Edited at: 30th Apr 2022 16:31
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Quote: "MSAA is useless on 1060. Takes away 5-7 FPS,"

I have 1060 also - not seeing any drop in fps here.

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Mr.WitherStorm
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Posted: 30th Apr 2022 16:47
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I don't think you understand, there is some form of bounce lighting/radiosity even though they have never said there is.
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Kraven W
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Posted: 30th Apr 2022 17:38
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Quote: "I have 1060 also - not seeing any drop in fps here."


I have the 3GB 1060 version (with 7600K, 16GB RAM), and am getting an average of about 30-35fps on the Snowy Mountain Stroll demo outdoors, 60fps indoors (without all of the terrain and trees being rendered) with MSAA either off or set to 2 or 4.

Setting MMSA to 8 does indeed drop my frames by about 5 or 6 outdoors, and nearly cuts them in half indoors. 4 is fine

Screenshots here:
https://postimg.cc/gallery/vgyMzgf/e92ee86d
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Harkin Hails M.
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Posted: 30th Apr 2022 19:26 Edited at: 30th Apr 2022 20:49
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I have 6 GB 1060, but I am also on Ryzen 5 2600X and 32 GB DDR4, running all Steam games and apps on 7200 rpm NAS.

The point is, I can run Crysis to Unreal editor/games at 60 FPS maxed out on this rig. I usually only have to turn down very high settings not visible to the eye. Most games I run with TAA on (2x). Hell, only Unreal 5 with nanite managed to bring down the FPS to 15-25 FPS for me (why I'm still using Unreal 4) and Max does NOT look like Unreal 5.. or 4.

Same rig can't handle GameGuru Max.

Though with their recent updates, performance has increased, but there is a LOT of optimization needed for the level of quality we're seeing. But since TGC is actively optimizing it, and it's still in EA, I have hopes it'll give me 60 FPS in the near future. No way in hell I'm ditching my 1060 anytime soon, like with most people on Steam.
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Kraven W
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Posted: 30th Apr 2022 20:06
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Quote: "No way in hell I'm ditching my 1060 anytime soon, like with most people on Steam."


Yeah, I've been waiting to upgrade my entire system to a 12700/12900K and 3070 to do some video editing work on the side (much more efficiently, anyway), but there's no way I'm paying current GPU prices. Not gonna give some scalper a $400 payday bonus with my hard-earned cash, and that probably won't be ending anytime soon since, apparently, others don't seem to mind encouraging that behavior and have boatloads of extra cash to throw at these guys, giving them an incentive to keep on doing it.

$900 for a $499 GPU? Nah. My 1060 still gets the job done and was worth every penny And it's now actually worth like $100 more than what I paid for it, haha. Apparently millions of other Steam users feel the same. Then again, I'm not really a "gamer", and am too old now to be concerned about "bragging rights", so I don't really need the latest and greatest hardware.
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Harkin Hails M.
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Posted: 30th Apr 2022 20:58 Edited at: 30th Apr 2022 21:02
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Quote: "but there's no way I'm paying current GPU prices"


It's bad around the world. For example, I bought an ASUS, 1440p, 170 Hz monitor with Gsync on, a week ago.

In my country, I can buy like 7 of those monitors for the price of a GPU. The 1060 I bought in 2019 cost me 8% less than this monitor, but same card or equivalent is ten times expensive now.

It's mostly only the GPU's overpriced to the point where every other day we see price drops (since prices are going down, apparently) by ridiculous 25-50% and they're STILL overpriced. To make it worse, I read an article with Intel CEO saying chipset outage isn't ending till 2024.

So basically, a LOT of Steam users are going to end up upgrading their ancient GPU's in about 2025. GameGuru Max can't rely on majority of gamers having high-end hardware, it MUST be optimized for pre 2020 tech like 1060.

This is why I've been regularly updating the thread on Git, hoping it helps TGC guys see the stats of latest builds on my rig at-least. Those with 1060 or similar older cards should also post in that thread with stats to help them.
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Mr.WitherStorm
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Posted: 1st May 2022 00:09
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No, working for older systems is hurting GGM more than it's helping. Because they have to try and get their engine to run on 3+ generation old cards they are sacrificing making a competitive product in terms of graphics.
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Harkin Hails M.
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Posted: 1st May 2022 05:44 Edited at: 1st May 2022 05:56
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Mr.WitherStorm wrote: "No, working for older systems is hurting GGM more than it's helping. Because they have to try and get their engine to run on 3+ generation old cards they are sacrificing making a competitive product in terms of graphics."


I suggest looking at Steam hardware survey first.



Again, 1060 can run Unreal 4 games maxed out. And Unreal 4 still looks way ahead of GGMax in quality and performance. Issues are with optimization in Max, and TGC is already working on it. Makes no sense to have a engine that looks and performs worse than Unreal 4 or even Unreal 3 on majority of Steam hardware.

Good luck convincing these 1060 Steam users who will most likely end up playing your game, that their hardware wasn't next-gen enough for your ground-breaking game in GameGuru. I'm sure they'll understand.

While we're at it, go through this GG Classic games list (go through discussion at the end especially) and read the reviews on Steam. You'll find the performance complaints in every game, and Classic isn't using Wicked Engine.
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Sanguis
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Posted: 1st May 2022 12:35
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Let's talk about Raytracing

Does anybody know if the engine could do this, in theory? (I know it will never be in GG Max. Just curious.
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 1st May 2022 16:45
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From what I understand The Wicked Engine, which is the engine that MAX uses, has raytracing via DirectX 12 and Vulcan. So, yes, it seems it is theoretically possible.
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Mr.WitherStorm
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Posted: 1st May 2022 18:04
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guys
I have news
I did the ray tracing
also it's likely it will become an option natively when people stop crying about not optimizing their games properly
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wizard of id
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Posted: 1st May 2022 18:58 Edited at: 1st May 2022 18:59
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IDK screenshots posted so far, doesn't really show the improve with adding ssao....I think this shows it well

with ao
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3com
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Posted: 1st May 2022 20:25
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For me, SSAO is working fine, even with non-frames impact.

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Mr.WitherStorm
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Posted: 2nd May 2022 00:14
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guys look up
i added ray traced global illumination
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