Yep this is my last throw with them i have not steam reviewed yet as they never gave me a key. They will do however when i request.
When early access as completed thats when I will go onto steam and give a verdict

Kwolf i will send a pic so you can have hope i been quiet in the background but indoors is pretty ace
Im having some luck with outdoor just been a hard task getting anything looking good

I found its the universal world aka sun that makes it look like tomb raider 2 standards hang on will post a few may inspire or condemn myself

Hi guys. Sorry butni deleted the pictures i was not happy with them. It was models slung together with no real thought or purpose so i have removed them
So now I apologise for the double post

Hi all,

Thanks for raising your concerns. Lee was indeed correct when he said that SSAO wasn't on the roadmap when he said that. However, that doesn't mean it won't happen. We don't want to over-promise any feature, but I promise that there are a lot of things we've not mentioned in the pipeline.

I know it's hard for you guys who are waiting for things, but I ask that you trust us. We've got a much larger team than before and as such, we are able to add features, improvements and bug fixes at a much faster rate.

Hi scene commander thanks for the assurance. I will be patient as i was with classic I waited 8 years with that so i can wait a while
Hope we get a fully working world soon the night and day/ weather i know swimming is coming but we need better than fog for underwater, 10 years ago bond1 did a much better underwater efx for fpsc and even 23 years ago there was better efx possibly. Working from morrow wind
But its a fill in i am guessing like a lot of things

"I think most who were using MAX as early adaptors at the time would agree these were all good decisions and a step in the right direction compared to the GGClassic days."
[BTW, this is NOT a personal attack (Monkey Frog), it's my ongoing gripe. I bought the software fair and square, I never open it up for days or weeks because it's not usable.]

Actually the software known as GameGuru MAX is NOT released yet! It's imprisoned by it's own developers and designers (you can't even use it to make a game), and I don't agree with their 'roadmap' or I should say how they developed it in their historic timeline.

"MAX could have been released two+ years ago."
I AGREE with the sentiment of this-- MAX could and should have been released at least a year ago, probably sooner-- whenever they had terrain and grass (the basics) at a stable point. It could have been called MAX Lite. It could be up and going, people making games with it right now, and maybe some already released. And the #$%& with getting zombie or soldier AI perfected- it never will be (unless you are at that level of a 'gamer').

They could (and in my opinion should) have developed Procedural terrain and Storyboard separately as DLC. It's no secret that they love DLC's and that's what GG software is intended to market. (That's their business model.)
If they had made a separate DLC program for procedural terrains, with cut and paste, people could cut and past the terrain from that software and insert into their map in any placement fashion, and any number of pieces they desired. At least this is the idea. The Storyboard would obviously be a big hit as a DLC also, I don't have any issue with these tools, only an issue on how they are accessed in the fumbling, jumbled up UI and mandated in order to produce your game (at least the Storyboard).

Also, the fact that they made procedural terrains-- TRADED OUT for the promise of the scrolling terrain everyone was hoping to have access to. Since procedural is integrated as a built in- I guess scrolling terrain was no longer possible? All this fixed if they had stuck with the original MAX Lite plan. FAST and EASY. Wicked Engine power, and then developed these DLC going forward... for those who want them...

They didn't have a certain someone on the team to drive them on the proper path for the best final layout of the software UI. It's clunky, it's bizarre, it's confusing and not user friendly. You have to access primary features in special menus, you have a "back" button that totally disintegrates (makes you go hu?) the user experience that would be organized properly with just menus and click boxes! You have a "project" thingy that turns the UI connection to your project upside down, a procedural map is ALWAYS opened upon start up -- ?!?, then you have to click around to do stuff,
- - YOU ARE REQUIRED TO DOWNLOAD GIGABYTES OF ATROCIOUS DEMOS - -

What's all this strange, unholy behavior about? Nobody mentions these obvious issues in their reviews because they are afraid or mainly because it's just not used to make games. So what is MAX for?

No worries. Thanks, though.



It's Early Access software. In fact, even if you could make a game with it, the standalone exporter tells you that you can't distribute or sell it. So, why are you actually trying to make a game with software that's still technically in alpha/beta? According to their Steam page, they should be in Early Access for about six months.



What 'roadmap'? What 'timeline'? I haven't seen one released by TGC. I've only heard them say that they are working on things like RPG, Puzzle, etc., but no release dates on any of that, etc.



Definitely not. It was in no way ready for a release. As one who was using MAX back then, their decision to NOT release MAX was one I whole-heartedly agreed with.

scrolling/procedural terrain:

Currently, you can create up to a 5km x 5km terrain. That's a 25km square area to explore. Skyrim, for example, is 37km sq. As a lone developer, do you think you can create a game that is close to the size of Skyrim? Do you realize just how much space there is to fill in 25 sq. km?

The UI:

Yeah, the UI needs work. I agree with you here. But it is usable.

The demos:

The total download size for MAX, demos, and all included assets is smaller than most games you purchase on Steam. So, I don't see the issue. The demos serve as a tool to help end-users learn how to use MAX. They can not only play the demos, they can load them up in the editor and learn from them, see how they were put together. As such, they are a part of the GameGuru MAX learning experience. Even though I know how to use GameGuru MAX, I enjoy having the demos.



Or perhaps there's no reason to mention them? I mean, I am making my assets for the game I want to create in MAX. I am using MAX frequently and reporting bugs and feature requests on GitHub as it's my hope to see MAX become the tool I'd like it to become for when I dive in to full-time development on my game with MAX. MAX is definitely for making games. You just have to realize that MAX is still Early Access and will be for several months to come. It's a great tool that's becoming better all the time.

I've said this before (and those who've heard me say it are probably sick of me saying it, but I will say it again) - over a year+ ago, I had uninstalled MAX from my system. I hated it and thought that MAX was going to be garbage. Then, back in November or so, I decided to give MAX a try again. What I saw was that the program had grown by leaps and bounds. The team working on MAX had made serious efforts and truly had advanced the software. As I worked with it, I was won over by GameGuru MAX.

Is MAX perfect? Heck, no! Far from it. Does it have potential? Absolutely! And this is why I press on with it. MAX's development often takes a few steps back from time to time. But it seems, to me, to take more steps forward lately. I believe the team creating MAX wants to do the right thing and I am willing to give them the time to see it through.

Now, having said all that, let me say this:

@GubbyBlips

You do have a few good points in what you've said. Why not do something constructive with those points? Instead of spewing here on the forum, condense those thoughts down to something actionable and post them on GitHub. For example, you have issues with the UI. Get specific and make a request about each one on GitHub. You want infinite terrain back? Request it on GitHub. GitHub is where stuff gets done (provided any post on GitHub is made with enough information so the devs know what you're talking about).

good question for wasting money and time...hmm or something else forgive me

"What 'roadmap'? What 'timeline'?"
EXACTLY!
It all hinges on this. I am responding to what timeline has already happened. There was no website/ presentation of future roadmap or pre- designed layout that was planned and followed. So, unfortunately we only have the course of action in past development that has already happened- ie it's HISTORIC roadmap/ timeline. I don't agree with how it was handled, as you will see below. There is no page that documents what roadmap they intend to follow in the future.

Things looked GREAT for MAX up to the point that they released the procedural terrains, and / or storyboard. Then the UI became muddled because they wanted to showcase these tools up-front to the WORLD for PROMOTIONAL purposed. In my opinion this is a hurdle to user ease and logic. Ego and pride sometimes gets in the way of advancement. I mentioned ideas that could have helped them if they had considered those ideas in the PAST.

"It's early access"
People keep saying this!
Let me explain again;
Several months where taken to produce both the Procedural terrains and the Storyboard. These practically came out before the grass painting was released! ???
My point being early access could be over months ago for a 'Lite' or standard version of MAX. Just if they had got that version debugged months to a year earlier before taking the time for these extra features. So 'Lite' name is not actually needed, just a fast and clean MAX that WORKS and gets released- meaning open to make stand-alones already! Then.... with future DLC downloads of ongoing, advanced features... Like mentioned all this would require a little advanced planning.

"Scrolling terrain not required, the maps are big enough"
Big enough for most (90%) of the same ol standard community projects, I agree. So Steam can have the privilege of having the same ol GameGuru factory produced games. But scrolling terrains was a main point mentioned early on, and some people COULD use that to make their own genres beyond the now adhered to square map FPS/ RPG/ puzzle games!

@ Monkey Frog; how would it look if MAX could make games beyond 5km FPS/ RPG/ puzzle games? ie driving, flying etc?

"Post to Github"
Likely not given any attention to. My observations of the MAX state would require A> go back to a much earlier time and release a 'Lite' / 'Standard' version of MAX, or... practically demolish and rebuild of the UI, which has been stated by TGC as being finally "set". That's why it's wishful that an early design path, roadmap was laid out and maybe user input could have had some influence on that. But if you think about it, it's definitely worth putting that effort into making MAX into a legitimate, mainstream game engine. The power potential SHOULD be there with 64bit Wicked engine so we could just get in and get going!

@Supe
I hope My personal gripes, which are not meant to actually putting anyone down for real.
It's just me, I simply envision a different vision for MAX. (mostly UI)

*Disclosure*; I would use MAX, if it was ready to go, and UI simplified to produce procedural, top down RPG/ RTS games. I would be doing the scripting all in-house, against the GG factory grain.

But aside from all that, even with it's odd quirks, I'm sure MAX will be completely usable in it's form when it does get it's inspection passed to leave the lot. Even if the community doesn't know when that will be?

@GubbyBlips
Didn't read it all (well none really) too much of that wall-of-text thing - but going by your last sentence it seems MAX is not your cup of tea.
In the meantime:
- Don't forget MAX is EA atm, so might be a while before it ticks your boxes
- also try post on GitHub to help get issues sorted
- you can also post suggestions on GitHub too

But failing that, all is not lost!
You could try searching UE, Flax, O3DE (there are others of course) that might turn up some useful tools for you to use instead of MAX

OldFlak....

@OldFlak
Well, it was supposed to be "my thing" specifically because of (64 bit) and (Wicked Engine) and (GG Lua).
You should probably read more if you want to know more why.

The problem with those other engines is I would need to spend a year or two just to begin learning the language, the workspace procedures on how to assign these behaviors and of course the UI.
Whereas GameGuru I already learned it's Lua, and it's supposed to have the simplest User Interface of any other- right?
It's just the UI really. I can't figure out why they did A, B, C and D or
I can't figure out why they didn't just put all tools accessible from top of the UI buttons + menus.
So easy and logical that way.
So I think it should always start default to an empty map of course, (This is Standard Operating Procedure).
Then you would find all the biggest features on buttons at top that one click- bam you access them there.
Don't mandate wonky maneuvers in the UI... 'BACK BUTTON' in a game engine? No. Never.
Find the rest in a standard menu system. Just like all the other engines. Read above for more.

All good - figured the same arguments were reiterated so my reason for not reading.
There is a ton of stuff that MAX needs fixed/added/changed/fine tuned, not doubt about that. Also plenty places where wrong turns have been made.
But the devs won't read this stuff so tis all a tad pointless.

Only option with MAX is to use the software and report issues and suggestions on github - failing that the only other option is other engines.

OldFlak....

Hi all,

Thanks for your comments once again. I can assure you that Devs do read many of the posts and listen to the feedback.

The only thing I'll address here for now is the roadmap and the DLC.

Adding DLC for engine content wouldn't sit well with me, the team or I suspect our users. DLC should be for media, and when we release it, it will be of high quality. This might mean it takes longer than in the past, but will be much better overall because of the time spent on it.

Re the roadmap: We have already stated that we are developing VR, RPG and Puzzle modes, so that's part of it and will cover the next few months. We are also working on many smaller features, which will add visual and game-play improvements and new features.

In addition to this, we have a number of the team working on the Github and other reported issues, and working to fix them ASAP.

However, and this is the big one: We are cautious of releasing a public roadmap in any detail, because engine development is fluid and some features may make more sense added sooner or later, based on common sense. Sometimes a later planned feature becomes an obvious part of a development path. (And conversely, a promised feature might make more sense added later. )

In the past, we're aware we've over-promised on a schedule and this leads to disappointment. Overall, I'll repeat what I've said before, and that's thank you all for your support and feedback, and please trust us. There's a lot going on and we're sure you won't be disappointed.

Thanks,

Dave.

Hi all,

I've removed the solved tag from this post. Simply because there's a very good chance you'll be getting SSAO soon. Watch this, and other spaces for more information.

Oh? Now, that's very, very nice to hear!

See, this. This is why I keep throwing my money at TGC after all these years. This is why I jumped on board for the third/forth time. Because you just never know... Thanks for reminding me it's always been worth the price of admission, Scene Commander. Expectations restored.

You'll hear no more complaints from me.^**



I'll be here


( ^** This statement is not guaranteed, and should be disregarded completely. I don't know what I was thinking when I typed it.)

Thanks for the disclaimer

Still lots to do, but we are listening and some additions make sense. Now, it's back to some solid bug fixing for a couple of weeks!

As an aside, if any of you want to contact me, it's dave@thegamecreators.com*

*I reserve the right to ignore you .

@Kraven W
Good job you did not get your refund.
That would have been a bit of a Bummer.

@Kraven W
a little ok but will improve when i get it all working and i hope the textures on terrain are going to be better and the method of painting improved
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ejf9sBl034

Nice to get a second confirmation of SSAO via today's live broadcast from Lee! Very excited to have heard that one, too.

graphics still need some tweaks, however, it is not that bad.
Working on my city_ruins, modeling, and importing via GGMax as OBJ, and I'm pretty happy so far.
I'm just prototyping the apo-city and testing the meshes, also testing lights, shadows, textures, reflections, wetness, and so on...
Also testing the performance impact my models might have because of the high poly count, or because of the 4k textures rather than 2k, the PNG textures rather than DDS, and so on.



Just try to work with the tools you have, and enjoy.

I am very pleased to hear that, and am most definitely looking forward to seeing what I can do with the Wicked Engine once the team has finished unlocking it's full potential. SSAO brings us one step closer to that, for sure.

Been waiting for the graphics to improve in Max so I can start creating content for the community again, and it looks like that time may just be around the corner!


@science boy,
Nice. Probably one of the best visual set pieces I've seen so far on YT, and not at all bad for an hour's work! Can't wait to see how it looks with SSAO!



They're definitely showing potential.

As of today's Steam release of MAX, SSAO (MSAO) is in MAX! Just wanted you all to know.

finally. yesss... wait for more news and updates.

Great, now let's get started with LOD feature, something engines back in year 1900 started using.

Pretty sure when dinosaurs were getting bombarded by asteroids, they looked up at the sky and said aloud, "Imagine the FPS drop if these asteroids had no LOD."