Hi All,

Here is a link to today's broadcast:


And all the questions and answers we could not reach in the live chat:

Q> They bothered to add the amazing particle system from AGK studio, but didn't bother to use it, I'm just left wondering why?
A> We do use it, you can find them when you select the particle game element and choose a particle effect.

Q> Why not 3D explosions?
A> Not fore EA, but will be updated to use more volumetric particles.

Q> When can I import a full level from Game Guru into max?
A> You can try this now, but you will not get 100% forward compatibility for all levels and content.

Q> Can birds randomly fly around without being scared, as long as they are in the field of view?
A> This feature is not available in the bird behavior.

Q> Night and day system: how is that going?
A> There are no plans to add night and day cycles in the EA release, this is planned for later.

Q> Is there a chance the community can get back to contributing to the source code of GG Classic by separating the Classic and Max GitHub branches?
A> This is something we have been discussing internally, nothing to announce at this time, but definitely watch this space!

Q> When will there be more options to control ambient lights ?
A> You can add different behaviors to lights already, but if there is something you want to see added, create a new GitHub issue feature request and the team will take a look at it.

Q> Will there be any sort of SSAO to tie the scene together better?
A> There are currently no plans to add SSAO.

Q> Will it be possible to add a "wave effect" to an object? For example adding a boat, buoys or logs.....and make it sway with the waves
A> Not out of the box, but this could be achieved with scripting.

Q> Will the player be able to swim?
A> Not for early access, but we do have plans to allow this in the future.

Q> When will you start RPG stuff as I am keen to get going in this area.
A> RPG development will start later this year, once we have a solid Foundation with the FPS genre.

Q> Is cell shading possible in game guru max?
A> Not out of the box, but you could use a look up texture to achieve a similar effect.

Q> The dying and getting hit is nice, but what about avoidance? What about trying to avoid getting hit or even running away?
A> Work on the AI is ongoing and we encourage anyone with feedback to raise an issue on the GitHub issues board, and the team will take a look at the request.

Q> Are there human characters who can walk around like the animals?
A> Yes, you can place a character and some flags in your level. Connect the character to the flags using visual logic and your character will follow the path set by the flags.

Q> The DLC I bought for the previous version can I use that in the newer version?
A> We expect you to be able to import a fair amount of assets bought for Classic without issues. However not everything will be compatible, so we are unable to make that guarantee.

Q> How much of a priority is VR after the 25th of March?
A> VR work is scheduled to start after the RPG and puzzle genres.

Q> What about culling of entities not seen by the camera?
A> Optimization work is scheduled to commence next week. The team does have a plan for this issue, but it is likely it will not be ready until after early access.

Q> Weeks ago I asked if we could make a decent RPG just with visual logic. Mr Bamber said yes but mentioned Lua scripting which was a confusing answer. Can I make an RPG without scripting in April 2022?
A> Not at the moment, but once we add more RPG features, this will indeed be possible.

Q> Weather system: is that happening?
A> Work on the improved weather system is ongoing behind the scenes, but might not be available until after early access.

Q> Can we have an option for third-person games? Also smoother camera movement and motion blur?
A> There are currently no plans for out of the box support for third-person games or motion blur. If you are seeing issues with camera movement please raise an issue on GitHub so the team can take a look.

Thanks again for attending, and do not forget the new time of 7 PM GMT every Wednesday

hello lee this is my option that already works in many 3d engines.(i think it will workes here too.)

According to the Wicked Engine feature list, Occlusion culling is already implemented and theoretically should work exactly as you described supe. Not sure why Max isn't using it, or maybe it is and the dev team just has a more efficient culling system in mind. I've noticed Wicked engine has a lot of awesome feature that max isn't currently using, maybe in the future or maybe not due to keep complexity of the engine down. Though I think that max should implement more advanced features and just hide them in the dev options with the other advanced features, OR offer advanced features as reasonably priced DLC.

The devs have cut most of wicked engines features so they can market to owners of 10+ year old gpu, but instead of using wicked optimization features they just removed important graphical features.

Lol, doesn't make much sense. They could keep the features and still market to older hardware simply by doing as I said, masking features from the "base" version but having them accessible or unlockable somehow. Then they could market it as "The engine that grows with you!", ultimately widening their potential customer base. Man, I wish I had gotten the sales job they posted a month or so back, maybe I could have relayed some useful ideas to them from the inside.

i test this option in panda 3d engine in unity and unreal, if you have over 1000 object with animation and lights your fps will be 15-20 but if you drag this script in your project your fps will be 45-55 , and this will be ok for max. hope they can use it in editor time too.

I have absolutely no idea why some form of culling was not in MAX from day one. Occlusion culling, especially since it's a part of Wicked, should have just been there and working from the get go.

@Argent_Arts in many 3d engines culling is just for terrain not for objects, but i just write my own script in 2 lines and every thing is ok. i dont know what is happening in max scripts.

Hmmm ... Most engines have some means of no drawing what is not seen by the camera (culling of some sort). In older engines, we often did this on a room-by-room basis. But in newer engines, it was by what was seen by the camera. And most engines have a means of doing it automatically, no need to script anything. But MAX does not appear to be doing it at all.

Unreal, for example, uses View Frustrum Culling and Hardware Occlusion Queries by default. It works on everything ... not just terrain. All objects everywhere in the game engine. (Unity uses Frustrum Culling out-of-the-box, too, btw).

GG/MAX only draws what is in front of the camera that is why as you look in different directions you get different frame rates.

What might not be optimised is shadow processing, i.e. if shadows are being calculated for the whole scene rather than only the visible parts, but that is a much harder optimisation to get right as things behind the player may be casting shadows in front of the player.

Things like AI navigation/behaviour, physics or sound must be processed for the whole area though, just because something is not visible to the player doesn't mean it can be ignored processing wise.

What about things that are behind walls? Technically, they are "in front of the camera", but they should be culled any way. From some of my (rather shoddy) experiments, it seems that MAX still sees entities on the other side of walls, even if their shadows aren't seen.

If the whole of the entity and any lighting effects (shadows+reflections iow) would not add to the scene then yes it shouldn't get drawn *but* it may actually be less expensive to simply draw it than to do all the necessary logic to determine that. Especially as the drawing part can be offloaded to the GPU whereas the fancy culling logic will probably need to be done on the CPU.

In fact if the drawing part is offloaded to the GPU it may not even be possible to determine whether an object does in fact contribute to a scene prior to making the draw calls!

Also consider other tricks that may be used like grouping all similar items into a single draw call, if that is done early in the pipeline then it may not be possible to remove those items later.

wow such a tragedy.

That sounds bad, actually.

another way is just forget trees and vegetation culling and just focusing on other objects (like ai,house,ect..) it may works and this could be done easily for early access.(if they have enough time for that.)

I dont see why they cut any wicked features instead of just making options for all of them.

100%

I'd give that 1000% or more, actually.

At least not cut any of the ones that were completed. Some of the Wicked features were not (and are not) completed.

Sure, but even the not finished ones. They used one of the most graphically powerful open source engines, if not the most but effectively made it equivalent to Xbox 360 era graphics.

Well i have askex a few times with this and they ignore me


On the level editor it is impossible to link more than one level to it.

Means
1. Maps with multiple caves and dungeons is not catered for


Example you have a 5km map and you have 2 castles in it and you have 6 caves about the map and 2 dungeons. All in different areas of the map. To make this really good you would need to load each dungeon cave and say 2 interior castles.

They keep ignoring the question totally

The question i ask is....

Is it possible to have multiple links to one map and be able to jump levels as they have promised?

They have ignored it each time so if anyone is wanting a similar game hopefully they may listen to you

Did you ask on GitHub? The forum here is mainly for us to talk to one another. TGC mainly do not respond here.

X 2 on streams and 2 times on gitbub

They seem to avoid the answer of i am not explaining it very well

All i want is a parent map with several 2 way link maps.. So i can make it a huge complex. All you can do is jump to and from one map or work it linear

In short No ..
Pretty much all you can do is the same as classic. You can go back a level but it will start that level again.
I assume that is what you mean.

so there is nothing after all to save data between maps.

Weapons and stats probably but no you wont find dead bodies etc from your previous encounter.

@Science Boy

Broadcast 81 Lee replied.

Q> Can you have several links between a level. as in go into caves and out of caves and castles with so if you go in the front of the castle, and come out of the back you're in a different location)?
A> Yes you can have multiple win zone areas that can take you to any level in your storyboard.

Yes i asked that ages ago and about 2 weeks near 3 now attempting to get it working i got a response to that it only works in standalone as in win zones.

But after that i have asked and albiet the guys have answered a different question but the repeated question is i cant find a way to link example 2 dungeons to a main map.

My next question is on the project map you only have one link to join maps. is that going to change?
Tried it and so thats when i asked how or what etc. And no reply since but kept open.

Lee as said many things that have gone. Ie
infinity maps
That was thrown away and a 5km map only
This somewhat is a downer however i was thinking as i had heard we can have non linear levels going and jumping between them.
However even when said yes i cant find a way.. And that last question is the one i have not had answered or any clarity on.
As this can be a huge downer pt2 on rpg gaming


I will however attempt to dabble More and if its just a process im missing needs to be a bit more clear but if i cant get it working i will github and if someone can say it on lkve stream be grateful

good point.

You can connect to as many levels as you like from within one level. You just need a single Win Zone for each level you want to connect to. So, let's say you have two caves in level one, each that lead to a new level (we'll call them Cave1 and Cave 2). It doesn't matter how they are hooked up in the Storyboard for this to work. At the entrance to Cave1 and Cave2, you place a Win Zone. You twirl down that Win Zone's Behavior and, under GoToLevelMode, you select Go to Specific Level (instead of Use Storyboard logic). That adds a new twirl down. From there, you can select one of the levels that's connected in your Storyboard, regardless of the order. In this example, would choose Cave2. Of course, you would have to have created Cave2 on your Storyboard first for this to work.

With Win Zones and Go to Specific Level, you can go to as many other levels as you like from any one level. You just have to set it up.

The Storyboard is just a way of sort of saying, all these levels that are connected? They all work together somehow. You can either let them work in a string (that would be the Storyboard logic) or you can supersede that string by using your own logic. One way to do that is with Win Zones, like I showed above.

Yes i tried that and it does not assign as expected it runs home to mamma and only loads the original one. So in standalone it does not i am at work for 3 days

@agent arts

Could you do a 7 level game and save it and test it works

As in 1 main with 6 levels connected.
In principal it worked in standalone it didnt

If it works and you have a complex saved game that links totally different levels visit them as i did a 3 levels connected to a main one. And it just loaded the same level
And if you could let me know if its my version or if it is not connected
Cheers

Sb

Just did that and it worked with no issues. One main level connected to six other levels. The six other levels were six different terrain levels - snow, dessert, rainforest, etc. I was able to go and return with no issues.

Thanks agent owe you a cigar or pint and my ultimate Game idea is back on.
With my twin worlds project reloaded again or possibly twin max lol. Any i have so much to do and very little time. But a holiday of 2 weeks should sort out a lot. Thats july sorted.

Ok will have a go when return may need a clean install.
In the meantime i think they would benefit from explaining the wires as well, as i dabbled extra for a good few hours working on that and trying to get wires. As the original 3 links via win zones was not working was wondering if it was wires, Hey ho it is alpha.

Last thing is.
Has anyone noticed physics issues. My models in the dungeon was working well, now they are acting up not letting me through doorways. and unable to climb stairs it has no physics

Or is this my iffy engine


Agent one last question can you check the memory jumping levels and see if it sets to zero or carries certain things like guns and collected items if they repeat etc much appreciated again

In the past (not sure about latest versions), there was an issue with MAX switching collision types. For example, if a model had collision hull type or collision polygon type set, sometimes MAX would later switch these to something like BOX. If this happens, then there's no way to go through a door or up stairs. So, the first thing I would do is check the collision types on those entities to see if they have changed. I would also make sure I have the latest build. MAX does not automatically update (you probably know this, but I thought I would share it just in case), so you have to use the GameGuru MAX Updater found in the GameGuruMAX main directory to check for updates.

Yes i have changed them and even to polygon and still not working i will wait before i call out the fure brigade with this as it may be a glitch in the engine and on monday i can update to this weeks so can test it then. And it was all working well previously so its a change with physics in the updates that i believe has caused this so i will hold out

Or just .. Help \ Check for updates
From the top menu

I still need to play around with this update but I had to laugh. In the demo I shoot an enemy, he dies, and the other enemies must be listening to their headphones because they didn't react to me shooting the guy right by them. They did react when I moved closer.

Is it possible to change this in the lua ai file?

GGMax is coming along really well!

Thank you.

I think Lee said they are going to be working on that? I hope they are at least.

the last improvements are nice, the same should be made on the player character itself, minute 2:34

the player reacts to the hits, for now this is possible only with bazooka projectiles in gameguru

Well after the update
Did a test and working like a champ
I can jump levels

Agent can you or anyone on the live stream ask this

Jumping levels to the exact win zones rather than the beginning start marker? This will be essential as now it can jump. Surely they can make the win zones starters for the level fir pin point accuracy in game

I mean you explore 2km away you find and go into a dungeon from main map you leave the dungeon and back 2km away at the start again???

Yeah, that's an issue, frankly. If you go back to a level, you will always return to the player start ... unless you can script. If you can script, you can bypass this. But there's a lot that you'd have to do, such as store all the level info (like saving a game) so that the player returns, not only to the same spot, but that the level is in the same "condition" as they left it. Currently, without scripting, you can't do this in MAX. However, I did put in a request on GitHub for them to add this as a feature. They have it currently listed as an "enhancement".

@ Science Boy



One method to get around this is to make an
EXACT COPY of the level you want to return to
with START MARKER placed in the spot you want to
start from upon returning to the level.
Thus it will SEEM that you have returned
to the earlier level in most aspects.

Hope it helps...I used it before.

UNIRD12B

Sure. But a quick solution to the problem would be to create a duplicate of the map, with the new start position at the entrance of the cave/dungeon ect. It won't save information from previously levels of course, max can't do that, but you can just use the start level as a starting point. It will allow you to several things.

Update the level
While you were in the dungeon for several hours, there was an attack on a village for example.
Make the previous cave or dungeon inaccessible
Add new areas
Add new characters
Change the weather
Change time of day

You would essentially just duplicate the first level and update it as the your game progresses, that way you can set the spawn point exactly where you want it.

It isn't a perfect solution but at least a working solution and does have some upside to it.

Well with what i have in mind it will get messy and an extremely large memory as in if you have 7 dungeons and seven identical maps thats x7 over needed memory unless the game is clever and just uses the same entities in a folder and only the map data changes the. It is not as bad. And that is workable. However if it needs new entities for each level as in a folder for each level then it will be to costly.

Otherwise awesome stuff

It wouldn't affect memory ... or shouldn't. It would unload the previous level when it loads the new. So, when you left Level1 to go to Level2, Level1 was unloaded from memory. When you left Level2 to "return" to Level1A (the "duplicate" of Level1, but with your changes), it would unload Level2 (and the original Level1 was already unloaded). So, no extra memory is being used.

Now, if you're talking about hard drive space, Level1 and Level1A would use the same models, except for anything new you added. The only difference would be the FPM files, and those are pretty small in size. I created a seven level test game and it was about the same size as my one level test game.

Fantastic news
I have only had minimal experience with max as work is super silly i also at present doing long shifts covering 3 days a go and no day off but get to sleep in my own bed for a night. Amd so yes no chance. And when i do i spent half the time trying to successfully transfer models to max. And sadly they do work then they dont again its a constant pain in the arse. So i have halted any transferring till they stop messing with it. I still cant get my own characters to do anything

Crisis averted it seems then

But yeah being able to dynamically move between levels would be sure cool, as well as saving game data from previously levels. Definitely some thing you need to post to github and email lee when they start working on the RPG aspects of the engine, after early access, we will have to wait and see which one they do first puzzle or RPG.

Yep. I done did that:



https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo/issues/2402

I have always said a duplicate map would maybe be a better solution for a new mission on a previous map as things will have changed if its a village or something so you get to start fresh .. The real only difference it will make to the game size will be the map file. Im my case if i did it 11 meg and whatever mission stuff i added.

Well you still have the carry over issue as in inventory etc. but lee did say they will, like everything else look into it after the march release

Oh and its hull decomposition thats not working with my dungeons
I changed a couple of pieces to static and polygons and its working sweet.

However the dungeon is high poly so i hope sincerely they get that sorted out. Or i may have issues as the labyrinth expands

Is it just my edition of the latest update that it has become impossible to place entities as when you select the object jumps every time and on all objects not just one or 2