Product Chat (Early Access) / GameGuru MAX Live - Broadcast #74 Answers

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 15th Dec 2021 16:32
Hi All,

Find below the recording of today's broadcast:


And the answers I missed in our live chat:

Q> Will you add ukulele characters, say yes?
A> There are no plans to add a George Formby mode for the March 2022 release, but as a Wigan lad, you got me thinking!

Amazingly we got through nearly all the questions in the live chat, must be some kind of record. Thanks everyone and see you next Wednesday 4 PM GMT.
GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

Belidos
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Posted: 15th Dec 2021 16:53
Quote: "A> There are no plans to add a George Formby mode for the March 2022 release, but as a Wigan lad, you got me thinking!"


Turnt out nice again ain't it ... mutheeerr!
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Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 15th Dec 2021 18:22
I do think it's a mistake to not be focussing on texture streaming from the outset. You've invested so much time and energy into the terrain system so you obviously consider it a major selling point, right? To a user, especially an inexperienced one, that implies they'll be able to create large levels full of content. But they won't. They'll run out of VRAM just like we always used to in Game Guru Classic.

It's crap for developers because it forces us to use either lower-quality textures or a small palette of assets.

It's crap for players because it forces them to sit through long loading screens whilst the engine loads 4-8GB of data in at the start.

The technology clearly already exists in Max/Wicked as that's how you've said you're doing the terrain textures. If you want users to be able to create anything more than walking simulators, it's incumbent on you to extend this functionality out to every asset in the game.

Another useful feature would be automated DDS conversion upon exporting standalone. That'll save a lot of memory too, and I swear FPS Creator used to have this feature.

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Necrym59
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Posted: 15th Dec 2021 19:19
An awsome feature implemented, definatley something that was aching to be done. Glad to see it all taking shape. Now is it possible can we have a terrain hole facility for seamless entering into caves or underground bases etc in the future - just an ask not a demand. Otherwise well done Lee and crew im enjoying this growth of GGM.
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science boy
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Posted: 15th Dec 2021 20:51
I use an 8192 map to use all building's and have space to make it a universal map re use the textures in the same map. But most people rely on many packs n items which is where gmax could fail. Tgc do like to shoot themselves don't they. Maybe they will do it as i dont know what they have planned
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granada
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Posted: 15th Dec 2021 20:55
Quote: " An awsome feature implemented, definatley something that was aching to be done. Glad to see it all taking shape. Now is it possible can we have a terrain hole facility for seamless entering into caves or underground bases etc in the future - just an ask not a demand. Otherwise well done Lee and crew im enjoying this growth of GGM."


I asked this at the start , not going to happen I don’t think

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Belidos
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Posted: 16th Dec 2021 08:43 Edited at: 16th Dec 2021 08:49
Quote: "Now is it possible can we have a terrain hole facility for seamless entering into caves or underground bases etc in the future - just an ask not a demand. Otherwise well done Lee and crew im enjoying this growth of GGM."


Lee has already stated multiple times this will not happen.

With the way terrain is processed now it's impossible. The terrain works off of a height map, which is a two dimensional image that uses grey scales to emulate height and depth and project that onto a subdivided plane. There is no underside to the terrain, and nothing under the terrain for you to sculpt into.

If they were to add digging into terrains to make caves etc. they would have to completely scrap all of the work they've done and start from scratch with a completely different style of terrain generation, which would not be able to use height maps because they only have two dimensional data.

On a tangent, the height map being a two dimensional grey scale image to move vertices up and down on a plane is why real world height maps will never be perfect, take the grand canyon one for instance, yeah it has the major topology of the canyons, but it sill looks a little wrong if you've ever been there in real life. The reason for that is real world topology isn't just up and down, those cliffs in the canyon go in and out as well, with the tops over hanging at many points, which is something you can't project from a height map.
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granada
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Posted: 16th Dec 2021 09:37
Quote: " There is no underside to the terrain, and nothing under the terrain for you to sculpt into. "


I don’t think he wants to sculpt , just cut a hole to put a model into

Dave
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Necrym59
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Posted: 16th Dec 2021 09:56
I wasnt asking for a complete redo of the terrain system just a "possible" ability to have a hole area tool to just remove a couple of terrain vertexes to allow walkthrough into object areas such as a cave or base etc. Im not fussed if it cant be done, it was just a thought, im sorry i mentioned it now.
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Belidos
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Posted: 16th Dec 2021 10:22
Ah i understand, i thought you meant you would like a system to sculpt out caves. If it's just a hole you wanted so you could put your own cave model inside and walk into, then that would probably be lot easier to do, so yeah keep plugging it (pun intended), there's always a chance, but it probably won't be any time soon,
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wizard of id
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Posted: 16th Dec 2021 10:25 Edited at: 16th Dec 2021 10:27
Quote: "If they were to add digging into terrains to make caves etc. they would have to completely scrap all of the work they've done and start from scratch with a completely different style of terrain generation, which would not be able to use height maps because they only have two dimensional data."
Not really, the 2D data has to be converted to 3D at some point.There is nothing stopping you after the 3d data output from converting the output to either voxel or marching cubes or adding additional polygons.

While you may have to alter some code, you don't have to start from scratch, you have to remember while the initial data points are 2D, it gets converted to 3D data points, which means you can pretty much do anything to the output you want.There is nothing stopping you from discarding the heightmap information entirely after you got your output. It would only mean the data output can only move forward and not backward.

You do know for example the axis game factory voxel terrain generator starts out with a height map and you can also export as well as import heightmaps as you wish.

Terrain LOD, texture LOD, pretty much every thing from the current system will stay mostly unchanged.

The reason why we don't have a voxel system or ability to create caves and such. Is performance, plain and simple, high polygon voxel editing isn't cheap to render, but you could counter it by converting the mesh data to static or by other means once you have completed your editing.

I am fully intending to make use of the super cool terrain editing tools found in axis to create height maps and caves and if needed terrains as well.
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3com
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Posted: 16th Dec 2021 11:27 Edited at: 16th Dec 2021 11:51
You can make your heightmap with the holes already done, don't try this yet, but worth trying, though.
Edit: Adding some link about heightmap. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heightmap
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Supe
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Posted: 17th Dec 2021 17:39
Good features are added but water physics are important too.
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Snage
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Posted: 19th Dec 2021 14:03
Hi, have a bit of a problem since the last update on Max. Was really enjoying the terrain editor, it was when I came to save the level that my problem started, the screen went completely white and my PC crashed, not blaming max software for this could have been a number of things, looks like I lost most of my files, have backups of some and have checked because I need a way of re-installing Max on my PC I have have to put Window 10 back on and I have looked for the tiny installer, but I've lost that like most other files has the crash happened so quickly

Any ideas.

Thanks
Nigel
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Posted: 19th Dec 2021 14:28 Edited at: 19th Dec 2021 14:29
Quote: "Any ideas."

The Tiny installer is in your TGC account under Products if you Pre-Ordered.
Simply log in and you can download and install it .
https://www.thegamecreators.com/login
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