Hey Guys, Haven't been on the chat for a long time due to work commitments, but I do make sure my GGM is updated every week and watch Lee's Livestreams. Awesome Job.

I have this "crazy" idea of creating a game - "Explore the new School" or something like that of our New State-of-the-Art School Campus we will move to August 2022 (See Attached Photos).
I received all the original 3D Designs in Rhino 6.5 format (3dm) from the designers / architects.

I've created models before in classic which work pretty good with .x format? But for some reason some of my models import into GGM without texture and some don't. I've tried, OBJ, FBX. Maybe to many meshes?

Any pointers?, Maximum meshes, Best File formats to use? Quick Guide somewhere?
I would like to do it in GGM, and not use Classic for it.

Thanks
Cheers
Danie

Hello DannyD.

Your project is a very interesting one.
I like very much architecture (my late father was a building drawer who contributed to large projects like the one shown in your pictures).

Among my huge collection of softwares installed on my desktops I have a few ones relative to the creation of architectural projects.

But surprisingly it is with a modeller (Metasequoia 4 Expert) that I was able to create a very accurate digital version of my little roof apartment with a correct uv mapping.



My workflow was the following :
1) in the real world :
- the tedious task of measuring the lengths on the floor and on the ceiling for each room.
2) in my modeller :
- a first draft in the modeller consisted of a model built with the tool "extrusion".
- when the whole model was accurately created with that tool then I simplified it to obtain a clean low poly mesh.
- uv mapping of the walls, floor and ceilling of each room with the powerful uv mapper of Metasequoia.
- texturing with GlTF (PBR) materials.
- export in GlTF binary format - scale 1/1 (mesh was created in meters in the project).
3) in GameGuru MAX :
- import of the mesh in that GlTF binary format with its truly improved importer (still in development for the GlTF format, but quite good, morphs not yet included -> The 3D Viewer of Microsoft Windows 10 can read and play the morphs of the GlTF files).
- I didn't forget to specify the unit (meters) applied in the original mesh.

The FBX models created by my softwares relative to architectural projects are not good for GameGuru (classic or MAX) : In the best cases, the models are imported but the UV mapping is completely wrong.

About the animated figures that you could include in your GameGuru MAX projects :
The animated figures created with Daz Studio 4 Pro and exported in FBX format can be converted in one shot in GlTF binary format by the 3D viewer of Microsoft Windows 10.
However, personally, even if I own an interactive license for the majority of my Genesis figures in Daz Studio, I wouldn't dare to include them in my public projects because I've some serious doubts about the encryption of GameGuru MAX projects.

Thanks @mikeven

Just invested in Metasequoia 4 Expert. Will take it from here, and see how it turns out. Thanks for the advice/help

DannyD, you took a good decision with that investment.

And to motivate you in the study of that superb application, I'll prepare a tutorial to explain my workflow to export my models created with Metasequoia in a GlTF binary format compatible with GameGuru MAX (alpha 2021-11-19 *).

For the purpose of that tutorial I'll share the metasequoia project of this model (see screen capture) that I created two years ago with the standard version of Metasequoia and that I recently updated with the EX version.





That project (one of my first with Metasequoia) helped me to learn in depth almost each tools of that modeler.

I have actually found the best format for dbo and to convert well is the wavefront.obj
With this it takes animations and objects and it works best with physics. As in since removing fbx converting from my actions everything is easier. I has so many issues with fbx conversion and physics that i tried wavefront and it works a dream. I can jump conversions through 3dcrafter and blender and zbrush

Most of my models don't have textures assigned. That's easy to remedy you assign each texture and adapt it in the add object part of max..
When its all been added you can mess about with textures and basics. Also you can mess with the textures in max if they don't have textures still

You dont need to spend a fortune on software unless ylu are going to be a serious model designer. I do suggest you have a go it's very therapeutic amd rewarding seeing your creations adapted and working

That's odd because OBJ is strictly a static format, it doesn't hold animations or bones, just meshes.

Indeed. OBJ is a very limited file format compared to FBX and GLB.

Hello,

About the OBJ format ( Wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavefront_.obj_file ) I am convinced that Science Boy knows perfectly its usage but he was distracted when he wrote his comment.

However even if it is an involuntary mistake, there is some truth there.
A long time ago I published on GitHub a script the purpose of which was the conversion of OBJ sequences into animations in Daz Studio.
Daz Studio is able to export this kind of vertex animations in the FBX format that can be imported by some advanced game engines.

Recently I officially communicated on GitHub that I took the decision to give that script in the Public Domain of Internet.

As promised in my previous post, I made today a video tutorial to show the process to rapidly export textured meshes in FBX format from Metasequoia EX to GameGuru MAX (alpha 2021-11-19).

I must say that it is a too long video ( 50 minutes) but I wanted to show the pitfalls faced in the use and placement of items in a level of GameGuru MAX.
Of course I know that some bugs will be (or are) corrected and that what I showed is perhaps obsolete in matter of bugs.

Here is the link to watch some parts of that video published on Vimeo : .

I also took the decision to offer the model shown in that video (a digital version of the Lamborghini Murcielago) to this community.
Initially I created that model for a game created with another game engine. That's why that model has textures of poor quality.
I attached a special file "Certificate of an authentic creation" in the shared folder containing the Metasequoia project and the FBX files.
Therefore as written in that file, no one is infringing any copyright laws if (s)he uses that model for any purpose.

I am convinced that the model could be significantly improved.
Good to know : In Metasequoia I rescaled the model to 1/20th of its original size. In this way its placement and scale in GameGuru MAX importer (in its dome) was correct without any required adjustments.

Here is the link to the shared folder on my OneDrive : https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjokN1FU3jK1oHq7y44ngiiQ3QdF?e=elkiy7

Thank you for your interest in my participation in this thread.

Personally i work in FBX, and so far with Max i haven't come across any issues importing, simply choose the model, assign the textures and save it, job done. The only issue i have is with animations because the new system uses animation sets instead of strings of animations, but even then if you only have a string of animations on the one model all it means is going into the properties and assigning the animation ranges manually.

My bad regards the animation part

I was actually at work and had so many distractions im always at work these days.
For the pedantic
I have had a lot of issues with fbx and physics amd i have been usimg wavefront for static as in Houses and all others and its been 100 percent i have not transferred any amated but i have exported from original dbo models for a few beasts to experiment.

Thank you for the very quick and obvious corrections almost done with a side of relish lol.
Kind of like the kids in class who have their hands up when they know the answer making noises and almost standing to be noticed.

On a serious note i know the limits i was in a zombie state in 15 hour shift i believe. But i also think its important that information has been openly given to would be modellers that is correct

@mikeven i got ya back

There are probably many unknown little marvels to discover on the internet.

Did you ever tried this one ? 480nm Studio.
I currently have the latest alpha version installed on my desktop, but the beta one is available for free on Microsoft Store.

The problem with the alpha version : the textures are not included in the export (OBJ or FBX).
Animations (no rigging) are correctly exported in FBX.
Both static meshes (OBJ) and animated one (FBX) can be imported in GameGuru MAX.
However I noticed that a whole scene exported in OBJ format is inverted on the XZ plane of GameGuru MAX in the dome.



New picture and comment added on 14th December :
Very nice shadow of the transparent glass. Unfortunately when the level is saved and reloaded then the setting "Cast Shadows" is deactivated for the material of that mesh. (bug or setting not saved in the .fpe files ? It needs a deeper investigation.) -> Bug reported.

The settings "(alpha clipping) - > alphaRef" and "(normal strength) -> normalMap" must be cautiously used ( I probably have a wrong understanding of the combination of those settings).
As you can see, the "teapot" in the scene is not correctly rendered because I modified the value of those settings and ... oops ... I used a depth map and NOT a normal map. (demo prepared without due care. I am sorry for that)

mikeven

Thank you very much for the tut.

Luckily, I won't have any animations in this import, as it is all static buildings, which will make life easier.

I'll keep you informed about the progress... Will happen next week when going on holiday, I'll have a go on the models, and see how I can get it to work. THanks again
Danie

Do you mean GameGuru Max? I thought only .DBO .X .3DS and .FBX could be imported into classic, if classic imports .OBJ too i might look into changing my workflow because i find .OBJ easier to work with for static meshes, it doesn't have the millions of variations that .FBX has so there's less issues with things like scaling, and that's the big issue with FBX there are so many updated versions and different renderers and engines have issues with different versions because it's difficult to account for every variant.


I know that happens with blender created objects, because blender uses Z up instead of Y up, but i didn't know it was an issue with models from other programs, that's an interesting bit of info there.

That second picture, apart from the reversed mesh, looks like you have a lot of inverted normals in there, or is that just because you put a random texture on to get it to display and the low roughness is making the reflection look transparent?


With OBJ and FBX that's normal, OBJ doesn't hold texture data, and with FBX it can hold texture data, but only a few 3d modelling programs can export it that way so a lot of engines and renderers don't read that data to save time, the one thing (other than animation) FBX has over OBJ is that it retains material slots, so as long as the material slots are the same name as the textures used they should automatically insert into most workflows without messing about just by having the textures and the mesh in the same folder.


Just wanting a little clarification, i've had to deal with a lot of people complaining because their animations didn't export from Blender, blaming Blender when in reality they chose the wrong format to export

One other thing i have noticed, and it's nothing to do with FBX importing really, but i've noticed that roughness and metallic in the surface texture really needs to be fine tuned within a very finite band or it just doesn't render as metal and ends up as a rough grey colour, last metal object i tried i had to redo the texture about a dozen times until it displayed right, and even then it was still a little flat, although that lsst bit of flatness may have been because of lighting.

Hello,

DannyD wrote :

You are welcome.
Frankly said I am not satisfied with my "tutorial" uploaded on Vimeo.
If you later discover that your project is too difficult to achieve with GameGuru MAX then you could visit this website : https://lumion.com/educational-licenses.html
But you need a very powerful computer for that software : https://support.lumion.com/hc/en-us/articles/360003476753

Belidos, it is difficult to mislead the eyes of an artist.
And you are a good one.


I am sorry for having missed that "Max" (I forgot it probably because I posted my comment in the GameGuru MAX board).



For the OBJ file generated by 480nm Studio, that is a more particular case : The scene appears as if it was seen on a mirror in GameGuru MAX. Perhaps that I missed some setting in the export panel of that application.


I saw that problem later after having posted my comment.
In fact I wished to verify if I could obtain a nice transparency. But the selection of the parameter "Transparent" in the "Materials" settings gave that unexpected result.
And indeed I applied the same material to each items of the scene.


I agree with you.


About my recommandation of the software Metasequoia for an architectural project like the one DannyD is going to start, I would like to further explain that choice :
1)
A few months ago I found a link in GameGuru forum relative to a free collection of modern buildings.
I downloaded the FBX format of that free collection (normal price : approximately 100 usd).
It was a huge file (I don't remember exactly its size, but I thought "impossible to import such big mesh in my modeler".
Then I was glad to see that Metasequoia did a good job.
However I noticed that there were no materials/textures included with that mesh.
As far as I remember after having exported the mesh in a better FBX format with Metasequoia, the whole scene containing many detailed buildings was imported in GameGuru MAX (one of the very first alpha). But it tooks a long time to import the mesh because the amount of triangles was incredibly high.

2) GameGuru MAX imports the materials of a mesh exactly with the same names as they appear in the Metasequoia project ( please note that it is also available as a 64-bit application). Furthermore, you don't need to manually select the textures because they are also automatically loaded.

When you have a very large project with possibly hundreds of different materials, you could discover that manually adjusting the materials and their textures inside the tiny slots of the "Materials" panel of GameGuru MAX is a painful challenge (particularly when you have to compare those dummy names replacing those ones found in the project from where you exported the mesh).

(a note for the people who were interested by the car model : it was initially designed for another game engine working with DX9. I didn't take the time to create PBR materials, that's why the rendering with a fake *.surface texture is so bad in GameGuru MAX).

Belidos, your pertinent comment about that problem of abnormal transparency in my previously posted screen capture in GameGuru MAX stimulated me to make a better import of the 480nm's scene (see the new picture in my previous post commented by you).
With that new import I am positively surprised to see that the shadows are beautifully rendered with the transparency applied on the glass.
About the "mirror effect" it could be easily rectified with another application.
(some objects were not propertly laid on the floor in the 480nm project. I saw it too late.)
Nevertheless I may suppose that many bugs were erased in the beta version published on Microsoft Store.

Today (14th december) I added a new explanation for the problem relative to the rendering in GameGuru MAX of the scene created with 480nm Studio Alpha.

No offence taken and hope likewise i do understand that people do make lots of errors regarding steps to importing models. Thank you for helping them. And i need to be more alert when at work attempting to give advice.

Glad you still with max thought we were gonna lose you at one point would be a loss

Thank you all for the advice and mikeven for the tutorial.

I found another solution, which might want to do what I want. The original design was created in Rhino 3D by the architect. He was kind enough to export that to Sketchup for me as I don't owe a legal copy of Rhino 3D. I've been using Sketchup for ages, and is confident with it, and all previous GG Classic models I have created there.

Last night, I come across the SimLab GLTF exporter for Sketchup. Invested a few Dollars, and wow... impressive. One-click export from sketch / one-click import in GGM. (See attached video) Don't mind the "non-" texturing yet, still have to get that sorted.

The only problem I have now. Most buildings import pretty well, But 3 Buildings is in real life 105meter 6 levels, 78meters 5 levels, and 60x65meters 3 Level. This doesn't import into GGM. No error codes, but also don't show in the "dome" preview, and the little man in the preview (for scale purposes) get very small, which means.. the building is "there" but don't show.
Is there any limitation in size (I mean Width/height) when importing buildings? Can the "dome" only preview up to a certain size?

All other smaller buildings work perfectly. Short/small, 1level, 30 meters, 1 level 65 meters etc...

[video=https://youtu.be/cHgHGGeBVVU]

Any suggestions?

DannyD, I watched your nice video on YouTube.
Your project is progressing much faster than I imagined.

Don't worry about the higher buildings, it is probably a problem of scaling.
Myself I made sometimes mistakes with the scaling system in the importer of GameGuru MAX.
Once you've correctly calibrated your units in your modeler then it would be an automatic process.

I made a test with a "high building" created this morning in Metasequoia.
In phase 1, its size was height = 100 meters, width = 50 meters and length = 75 meters : 40,000 quads.
In phase 2, for compatibility with the scales in GameGuru MAX, I rescaled that mesh to 1/20th in the modeler.
And I exported it in FBX format that I shared on my One Drive : https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjokN1FU3jK1oUfV3qcPhypp61yx?e=CPmoiT

Here are a few screen captures of the building in GameGuru MAX.
The simulation is fluid. I think that I could place hundreds of this building in a level and it would be playable on my desktop ( 16GB Ram + 8 GB DDR5 ).

Project tested with GameGuru MAX alpha 2021-11-19

Hello,

Serious members in the forums don't like posting comments/threads that could contain a wrong guidance/information.
And I'm always trying my best to post accurate comments in my best English (this language being not my mother tongue).

Yesterday was a painful day for me because I couldn't remember the correct settings with which I was able to export an asset created in Metasequoia in a FBX format that could be imported by GameGuru MAX (test with alpha 2021-11-19 because this one still includes all the advanced settings for the developers) without having the tedious task of specifying each materials names and finding the link to the applied textures.

Today is a lucky day because I remembered the solution and I think that it could be used in other applications (to verify with yours) .

Surprisingly according to many tests I made (and it is a little bit in contradiction with the recommandations of the experienced artists of this community) GameGuru MAX cannot automatically identify materials the textures of which are in .DDS or in .PNG format (*).

(*) Comment edited on 2021-12-19th : About the import of texture's files in .DDS or in .PNG format, I must admit that it is difficult to provide an absolutely correct method for any cases. It seems that the .PNG files are correctly imported under certain conditions, but currently I cannot discern which ones.

But the import of an FBX file the export of which was created with assets having materials to which textures in .JPG were applied is successful in GameGuru MAX.

Here are four screen captures showing my workflow :
Please note that each of those cube-shaped meshes has exactly those sizes in the modeller :
H=W=L= 2 meters. (an easy method to compare the imported asset with a character included in the packs of GameGuru MAX).








(surprising optical illusion shown in this screen capture of the level in the editor)


Nevertheless nothing is perfect in this world and that is also the case for GameGuru MAX importer : the superimposed color placed on the materials in my modeller are not identified but in my opinion it is a insignificant detail because that color could be applied in the texture itself.

As expected, because GameGuru Games are created in a micro world, the imported assets require those settings in the GameGuru MAX importer (and unfortunately it doesn't facilitate the control of the adjusted size in the dome of the importer) :

Default settings when the importer is accepting an imported asset in FBX format (I hope that it would be the same ones for every case -> you should verify).
- Scaling : "Original Scaling"
- Scale : "100" -> edited a few hours later -> Scale : "0" ( The importer didn't reset that default value after a previous test - > it led to my confusion.)
- Center Mesh Data : not enabled
- Position Offset : on the axis Y : "1000"
- Find Floor : not enabled

Adjusted settings for the FBX format :
- Scaling : "Original Scaling"
- Scale : "5"
- Center Mesh Data : it is your decision according to the specific shape of your asset and its original position in your modeller.
- Position Offset : on the axis Y : "50"
- Find Floor : not enabled (because I think that the adjusting the Position Offset is the correct choice : please verify).

I noticed something important : When the import of your assets in not as lucky as shown in my test - I mean the case where your materials names and textures links are not identified by the importer - then you may not modifiy the setttings relative to the scale and position of your asset if you already have adjusted the correct values for the materials applied to it.
Indeed if you are tempted to do that voluntarily or if you do that inadvertendly then all your settings relative to the materials are erased by the importer.

Hey mikeven

Thank you so much for all your testing the models. It's highly appreciated.

I'm on holiday for 3 weeks, and due to the current pandemic in China, all our flights cancels.. so stuck at home. Which is good to get me going on all the new models

PS: I drop you an email with a screenshot.

Cheers
D

Hello,

DannyD, thank you for your appreciation of my modest contribution to your ambitious project.

Your comment implicitly authorise me to share in your thread - for the benefit of this community - my opinion about your project and the content of this thread.

1) About this thread :
The title "Model Importing .. how to Guide" could be interpretated by the visitors to this forum as "This is a 'how to' guide for model importing ( in GameGuru MAX)" and I think that it is not the case. I consider that it is a thread where the members are sharing their approach of that matter according to their own experiments with the alpha versions of this game engine.
It may explain why the members and the visitors often "clicked" on the title of that topic in a short lapse of time.

2) About your project :

- Again I want to congratulate the immense efforts of the developers' team to offer a truly enhanced assets importer in GameGuru MAX.
From day to day they are building the DNA of their superb new baby and this one has already an ogre's appetite.
GameGuru MAX importer is indeed able to swallow and digest huge assets (millions of triangles) like the ones you are bringing in your project.

- My experiments with your shared asset ( that impressive building - your hires pictures posted attached to your first comment - particularly well designed by its architects) demonstrate that it is possible to include massive assets in the video games "compiled <- not yet in the alpha phases" by GameGuru MAX.

- In your words I can feel your passion and love for that project. However I think you wouldn't underestimate the magnitude of that challenge.
Indeed in this forum there are a few great game developers ( some of them, not mentioned in order of preference or skill : Wolf, Duchenkuke, cybernescence, PCS, 3com, ...) who are actively busy with the creation of very nice video games and the demos and videos that they generously offer to this community demonstrate their skills ( artworks, scripting, scenario, ...) and also the huge amount of hours they are spending on their projects.
Those game developers are regularly assisted by other members of this community. These ones are sharing their knowledge and skill in their areas of excellence.

... I'll let you have the final word.

(and I'll send you an email today)

Today, according to some new experiments with the import of assets in .FBX format in GameGuru MAX, I discovered that the importer was able to correctly import a material and its textures stored in the .PNG format (color depth : 64).
Therefore I edited one of my previous comments where I mentioned that some images formats (.DDR and .PNG) were not properly identified by the importer of GameGuru MAX.

Furthermore - and it is important to know - the scaling of an imported mesh in the GameGuru MAX importer depends on the structure of the mesh included in the .FBX file (one of my choices for the export of my assets with my modeller).
Indeed I noticed that if the asset is textured with only one material and if the mesh is concatenated into a single block then the scaling to apply in the importer is not the same as for the case of an asset textured with multiple materials.
Therefore, please verify the correct scaling by yourself because it seems that the correct scaling is an important setting because rescaling the asset inside the editor of GameGuru MAX could have a negative incidence on its collisions' properties.
Anyway if the scaling factor was not correctly defined in the importer, it is always possible to adjust its value in the .FPE file generated by the importer.



Here are a few screenshots of my experiment of today :

Please note that the choice of the settings for the material in that experiment are surely not an universal one. It is my own naive visualisation of this kind of material.

Good to know : when GameGuru MAX is able to identify every files stored in the dedicated folder for the textures applied to the material, then it automatically creates a new .surface texture but the values of the parameters "Roughness Strength" and "Metalness Strength" require a manual adjustment.







(As usual, comment posted by a simple hobbyist)