Product Chat (Alpha builds) / [STICKY] Houston, we have a problem!

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Belidos
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Posted: 29th Nov 2021 15:22 Edited at: 29th Nov 2021 15:33
Quote: "not sure why you getting worked up.But oh well whatever."


Sorry, i didn't mean it to be nasty, it just feels sometimes like you don't pay attention because half the time you seem to be arguing against me even though I'm saying the exact same thing as you, and the rest of the time you seem to be putting words in my mouth that i never said, or misreading what i meant, it can get frustrating.

Quote: "You indirectly implied mmo can be succefull and match another mmo"


No i didn't, i didn't even slightly hint, i very distinctly and very clearly clearly said that other mmo's had tried and failed.

This is a good example of what im talking about, i stated "to a certain extent i disagree" meaning I don't agree with part of your statement, then went on to explain which part.

Quote: "As for you second post, I can ask you exactly the same question, with regards to skimming posts, as you missed where I exactly names the current top 3 mmo's based on subscriber numbers, wow being one final fantasy been 2 and in 3rd been old school runescape.Pot kettle much?
Final fantasy BTW has over 34 million subscribers but only 2 million being active..Secondly wow peaked at 46 million subscribers in 2017, 12 million was the highest active players"


I didn't skim it, the rest just had no bearing on what i was talking about, i was pointing out your numbers were wrong, there's a big difference between misreading words in a sentence so it reads the wrong way, and selecting specific items within a text to point out an error.

You're also mixing your terminology here, subscribers are only the people who are actively paying, not all of the registered accounts, when you stop paying you cancel your subscription and become just a registered user.

anyway, we're getting off topic now back to Max.

While it is dissapointed, and not really unexpected, i agree that it's good they are delaying, it needs quite a bit of fine tuning.
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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 29th Nov 2021 16:56
It's one of those threads I guess...
Back on the topic of WHY IS GGMAX DELAYED?

woi-
"So you play a game that is geared towards children, with unrealistic weapons, cartoon graphics, and while it has a lot going for it, with regards to play smoothness ect, some th... Play Day Z!"

Sure do, as much as I please. Do I need to write you a story to explain my typical schedule day by day and the history of my gaming through the decades? So woow. I think that kind of commentary is a bit off base. Adults can play 'kids games' (or mature ones if they choose) but children shouldn't be exposed to mature content including gore and violence. At least once upon a time society used to think like that.



So my complaint here is that GGMAX is being delayed because they want to get the mature content their engine produces solid before release time. So they are catering to a specific genre that has no business being there under some users projects. How about a variety of CC types? Why can't they just release a solidly functional UI and stand-alone ready v 1.0 with a variety CC that other users with independent creativity can use without waiting on TGC working on mature content?? IE-- who don't use their AI or zombies.

I posted a clear explanation above that all I need (and probably others too) is a 64 bit engine, etc, etc-- MAX has got some good features but it seems like we are waiting on another GG Classic diabolical zombie shooter engine with the Adult parts matured a little bit further!
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wizard of id
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Posted: 29th Nov 2021 17:35 Edited at: 29th Nov 2021 17:36
Quote: ", i agree that it's good they are delaying, it needs quite a bit of fine"
I played around a bit creating outdoor environment and the terrain editings tools with the higher polygon meshes, feels and acts rather crude. While you can get really nice cliffs and such going there simply isn't enough brushes to go round.

Its kinda like they intended you set up the terrain with setting on a new map, and pretty much use that for the level with some editing here and there when needed. However I feel the bushes isn't nearly good enough to edit the terrain on a grand scale as needed.

Which is rather disappointing, I see no reason why additional brushes can't be added, that would make terrain scenery much better and more natural looking.There should definitely been more complex brushes, I for one would love to be able to use a polygon reduction and polygon add tool and block shape brush, a vein brush, as well as selecting the bush shape like octogon, pentagon ect you would like to paint with.

I also find it stupid that I am not able to create a flat terrain at a certain height, the default flat one as far as I know can't be edited, setting the terrain to lowest level which is zero also means you can only edit the terrain up and not dig down as the terrain system doesn't slow digging below the default level.


It would be overall more natural painting experience in general.It has become abundantly clear that TGC hasn't done level editing on a large scale as lots of bugs related to large scale editing occurred, well not really bugs but rather limitations, which could have been avoided if some large scale level editing or at least having a look at what the limitations are and if they would impact the overall design process.

None the less it is still a pretty impressive piece of software but just some annoying little niggles with regards to imposed limitations having a negative impact, which could technically be worked around.


Finally iam in no way confused with regards to active subscribers and subscribers, if you actually look at stats provided you would have noticed many will note users who have not renewed their subscription is not included. Which actually means, WOW at it peak had 46 million paid subscriptions, with wow you had to buy time cards which would allow 30 60 and 180 days of access.

Active subscribers means users that has played during a certain time in this case measured in a monthly cycle.It is like saying steam has 300 million users but only 30 million active users. (Yes these are fake numbers but just an example that I completely understand stand the difference between active and inactive subscribers).

So you could indeed have that many paid subscribers if at the height of popularity many had 6 months subscriptions, considering popular it was at the time and considering the 10 billion lifetime revenue I don't find it particularly difficult that they did indeed had a lot of paid subscribers.However it should be noted that the 12 million was peak active subscribers. 46 million subscribers was just the number of paid subscriptions. That is before the expansion packs came along, but it isnt hard to believe 46 million peak paid subscribers as some expansion packs sold as many 3.2 million or more copies on the first day of release. I think I have a good handle on what is active paid, and lapsed subscriptions.

Back to topic thanks
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wizard of id
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Posted: 29th Nov 2021 18:01 Edited at: 29th Nov 2021 18:03
Quote: "Sure do, as much as I please. "
Enjoy it it Just so you are aware that the 62% of the demographics for fortnite is between the ages of 10 and 24 some say 10 to 30. Doesn't break down further then that but the game is over run by under age kids which can some times ruin the experience somewhat, and has been proven time and again along with call of duty having generally extremely toxic playing environment.

I can't stand fortnite due to the toxic environment and kids. I prefer playing course strike source, which have 1000 + hours in, and global offensive with 600+ hours. Counterstrike heavily relies on player strategy, skill and most of all weapon, sound and map awareness.It is definitely not a gun and run game where you can run around the map guns blazing. Some might do a p90 run, but is is still pre planned and you would flash and smoke choke points and corners, and there is nothing much you can do in the event of a p90 run.

Fortnite does require skill and some strategy, with decentish weapon balance.But it in no way gets as technically and reliant on good map, balance, weapons and utility. But the point inexperienced players especially kids get weeded out quickly, which makes battle royal especially appealing to kids. It does make counter strike somewhat toxic in the way they handle younger players or inexperienced players.But it has definitely matured a lot in becoming a lot more tolerable to new players, with the player voting system toxic players can be quickly kicked, and reported as well ect.So it does a pretty good job. I much rather prefer playing a balanced a game like CS or dayz, it provides a more enjoyable experience but it does have a higher learning and skill curve, which makes entry to kids more difficult, which most prefer.

Lastly there is a running joke with regards to fortnite players, but I seems to have missed the mark sorry about that, if that offended you or confused you.
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Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 29th Nov 2021 18:50
We don't have to worry about the Omicron variant because WOI will just argue it into submission

AE
wizard of id
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Posted: 29th Nov 2021 21:01 Edited at: 29th Nov 2021 21:03
Quote: "We don't have to worry about the Omicron variant because WOI will just argue it into submission"
Don't worry I can't fly any where too We have been barred by most countries from flying there. Lol thanks for the stark reminder that the new variant originated here and the world is treating us like the plague. Have to learn more of greek alphabet now.

I don't like the word argument it sounds like am being nasty or mean and that is by no means my intention.I love discussing things it is seriously interesting, hearing people's opinions. it is hard some times to bring an opinion across as neutral or provide as much information as possible, without someone feeling offended by what is being said.

Game industry in general has many facets some good, some bad.It has gone a bit off topic. But is has to do why we never got decent MP in gameguru, and the general odds of making it in the MP arena, which isn't easy.Debating is healthy.

I think some times people forget just how small the team is and how difficult 3D programming is in general, we heading into the second year of gameguru max development. (lol it has been so long I can't really remember)

I think gameguru classic was in development for about 1 year and a bit.So respectively max development hasn't been in development that long. I suspect with the up coming holidays lee and team is looking to take a bit of break which is well deserved. They have done a great job.
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Belidos
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Posted: 30th Nov 2021 11:44 Edited at: 30th Nov 2021 11:45
Quote: "I also find it stupid that I am not able to create a flat terrain at a certain height, the default flat one as far as I know can't be edited, setting the terrain to lowest level which is zero also means you can only edit the terrain up and not dig down as the terrain system doesn't slow digging below the default level."


You hit the nail on the head here, i have no idea why they haven't done that, or even given us the ability to sculpt properly below zero if they want the base level on zero, it's actually quite frustrating not to be able to do that.

Also plus 1 for additional brushes
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wizard of id
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Posted: 30th Nov 2021 12:57
I do find it puzzlingly, whether it is due to making it easy to use, or not having considered it.The terrain does indeed have more polygons, honestly they should have gone with the voxel route. It has matured quite a lot in recent years, and with their super awesome terrain system it would have been super easy and the performance wouldn't have been impacted in the least.

Even marching cubes would have done a pretty good job as well, it has been around since the late 80's.The only problem I see with voxel terrain is the lighting system, with static baked light scenario the overall performance wouldn't have been impacted in the slightest.However with a dynamic editing and lighting environment, having to calculate the light for a cluster of cubes or single cube would have bought most the engine to a grinding a halt.

One can only speculate why they went with the direction they did.I do feel even the noise generated terrains are a bit stiff and not really all that natural looking. Custom height maps would have made a world of difference especially when it comes to getting better terrains.

The major problem iam facing now is trying to edit the entire terrain in the editable area. Of course you don't want the player to have access to the entire map, especially if you want to create a somewhat linear path for the player to follow with the illusion of free roam.Even skyrim has made areas out of bounds, it provides a very good illusion of a open world, with mountainous regions, with valleys, and grassland plains, coastal areas ect. Max is sort of mountainous and that is about it, there isn't any distinction between areas it is just one mountain with low and high areas.

While one could certainly create and paint areas as needed but with the limited brush and overall size of the map, you mind be spending several weeks in just creating the terrain as needed.

Secondly trees need to be better randomized, trees are just about evenly spaced from one another which creates a really visual problem, sure you can edit the trees now, but have to edit 20000 trees does sound like a lot fun, also only one tree type at a time, it already has instancing wouldnt be too far a stretch to paint or randomize 2 - 3 themed tree types or whatever.

I most definitely not the only one that has picked up on these limitations and issues, no doubt steam users would have a field day
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DVader
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Posted: 21st Dec 2021 17:43
It's not an MMO, but GTA 5 does pretty well with it's online side. I never play it much myself, but it is pretty popular or at least was. Certainly a reason why they haven't added much single player content since release or of course released 6.

Multi-player was promised for Max, so should be added (once V1 is complete and solid). Albeit much more simple smaller player counts I never liked it in GG as it was just too limited to game types that I just don't enjoy. I always hoped for co-op capabilities and the ability for custom scripts to be added. Much more interesting and even with limited players, say 4, could make for interesting games. Add in VR (again promised at some point) and you have interesting potential indeed.

Still, for me at least the speed is not good enough at present and they need to concentrate on getting that up to snuff before March release.
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