I recently bought the Alpha version of Game Guru MAX. Unfortunately in my case, it is impossible to work with it, since its performance is excessively slow when moving around the level. When I click on Test Game I have 1 FPS.

This behavior of the program is strange to me since I have GameGuru Classic and its performance is excellent.

Does anyone know why this happens?

Operating System
Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
CPU
Intel Xeon X5670 @ 2.93GHz
Westmere-EP 32nm Technology
RAM
16.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 (9-9-9-24)
Motherboard
HUANANZHI X58-RX3.0 (CPU 1)
Graphics
2047MB NVIDIA GeForce GTX 750 Ti (NVIDIA)

Hi DareESP
The specs needed for Max , i don't think your graphic card is up to it

GameGuru MAX in-game visuals are under construction. We'll post updates and screen shots in the months to come. It is anticipated that the minimum specification for this product will require an NVIDIA GTX 960 or equivalent graphic card. We have also set the minimum operating system to Windows 10 or above for compliance with the Windows Mixed Reality requirements.

Dave

Also DDR3 memory is really going to drag it down, that will have a maximum of 1066mhz speed, DDR4 is up to 3600mhz now and generally 2400mhz is considered entry level now days.

@Belidos.

Actual fps gained from using ddr3 and ddr4 in current gen software isn't that large at all, we will only start seeing improved performance in unreal 5 streaming capabilities.....

PCI-e bandwidth is pretty much fixed irrespective of ram speed, and CPU speed, So no while there will be a frame difference between using ddr3 and ddr4, it isn't that impact full. This system can get a simple GPU upgrade, and would still be able to be with in a few frame of any newer ddr4 system.

Wicked engine is still very much A GPU heavy engine and while multi threading is much better, you are still better off with a newer GPU, while this older system is going to be have less overall pcie bandwidth wicked engine isn't that demanding that it is going to overwhelm the bandwidth of pcie and create a CPU/GPU bottle neck.

Hi everyone!

Thank you for your replies. I understand your point however that makes much difference to have a 1-7FPS when nothing is at the level? If we use task manager we can see that the software is not almost using the GPU resources and RAM resources.

I face the issue even using the software interface, it is really slow.

I think it should be a CPU compatibility issue or similar. I am able to play more demanding games such as Battlefield 1 and 5 for example with no FPS drop downs at all.

Also, I can say that Game Guru Classic is performing extremely well with my tech specifications, being easy to navigate through the menus and levels. I believe such low performance using GG MAX when computer resources are not being used at all, should be related to the software itself. What do you think?

Your GPU doesn't meet the min requirements, regardless of how much resources it uses or not. 960 GTX is min requirement, and while the 750ti does have DX11 support, but only 11 feature set and not 11.2.Your GPU can't run the software....regardless of how much resources it is shown to be using.

Hi wizard of id

Thank you so much for your help, sorry for disturbing you. I am just learning and sharing.

I think is a pity that the GPU is not good enough for that software, when is one of the most used by Steam Players, which is really a lot of people. That being said, the software cannot be optimized in another way around?

Only 2% of the steam user base is using the 750Ti it isn't a lot. compared to the 1060GTX which 18% of steam user base using this card.
https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/directx/

The performance difference between the 750ti and 960ti is nearly double in most applications, unfortunately doesn't have the performance needed, no way around it, so you would either need to get a new GPU or an entire new system.

You can still get away with getting a 1060GTX without a major CPU/GPU bottle neck any thing above that and there will likely be very little to gain. Unfortunately it isn't a GPU market right now, pretty much hardware in general. You will either need to upgrade or you will be able to request a refund.While you aren't forced to use Nvidia, AMD is cheaper in both the new and secondhand market, if you can get a RX570 you will be good to go.

Hi wizard of id

Thank you for your help. Pity that I will not enjoy this software. Anyway and as feedback in case this can help you guys to improve the software, please note that 2 percent of Steam users is quite a lot, as steam has 120 million users. And we are talking only about the 750ti.

With my computer, I am able to run Unreal Engine 4 with no issues, and the engine is really nice. However, I am a fan of your software as I started years ago with 3D Game Maker, software that I have on CD

Regards and thanks!

@DareESP. I can understand your frustration. My 970 GTX runs most games fine, bearing in mind I don't really play modern games. I also can run Unreal fine in general. However, I know that if I tried to run any modern titles, I'd be doing exceptionally well with 60 fps even at low settings. I recently tried a Plagues Tale, and yes it runs, just about. Amazing visuals, but aimed at a little higher than my aging GPU. It's just about playable at low settings.

For certain GG is much better suited to slower systems these days than Max is; but to be fair my 970 handles Max fine mostly and I knew before buying that a 960 was min spec.

It's not that TGC want to exclude people with lower end cards, just a necessary evil to get modern features in. Remember GG (FPSC Reloaded) has been around since 2013 or so and has had a fair bit of time to evolve. Max is starting anew and hence, needs fairly new hardware to run. Well at least to run fairly well. It may seem excessive, but if your serious with development you will understand in a few years

There's no point releasing a new game dev tool that supports seriously old video cards that are no longer used. Yes, those seriously old video cards are used today, but in 3 years? Perhaps not so much. Max is not ready to even make a game at present, but in 3 years most certainly will be. By then we will have a whole different GPU market and the older cards we are talking about will be history. I'm just glad they didn't go mad with min spec and go for RTX cards If so I would be stuffed for a few years to come I think

Oh, why am I saying 3 years? Mostly because a lot of games can take that long to make. Good games at least. Sure, you can make a fairly decent game in a few weeks if your really good at it, but generally not the sort of game most GG users want to make.

Lastly, there's no point comparing GG or GG Max to Unreal. Unreal is nothing like as easy to use as GG. It's a professional games engine, that has been around since Unreal Tournament. It probably made more in it's first few years than GG ever has. The problem is, it's really tough to make a full working game in it. It's designed by pros for pros. Us amateurs are unlikely to make anything in it. I've made a couple of simple things in it, but for certain would never feel happy releasing them on steam. Despite the fact they are way better than some s**** I have seen on there.

Unreal is awesome, runs fast, can handle s*** loads of stuff, but is not easy to use in general. Max, hopefully will be a in-betweener that most of us can understand and use. That's a big thing and seriously underestimated by most.

Hello DVader,

Thank you for your message. It makes sense what you say and I agree that the creation of software tools has to continue to evolve and therefore, the equipment and technical requirements have to be higher.

I am sure TGC has no intention of discarding users. I was simply comparing Unreal Engine with Game Guru Max because of what they both offer. It is true that Unreal Engine is not as easy to use as GameGuru, but, if its interface runs smoothly, isn't it better optimized?

Yesterday I was playing with the GG MAX setup.ini file and I modified two values that improved the performance of the interface in an amazing way. adapterd3d11only=0, and another one that had value 99 I set it to 0 (I don't remember now which one it is). If those changes make GG MAX improved running faster on my computer, is it not true that perhaps the software could be better optimized?

Also remember that the problem pointed out by wizard of id was that my 750ti card does not support DX11.2, although it does support DX11. There is software compatible with various versions of DX. It's not that I want the TGC team to change everything now so all of us with a 750ti can enjoy this software, I just found unusual how slow is to navigate through the GG MAX interface when I can do it with much more powerful and modern software than this one.

Best regards!

DareESP unfortunately there is no way TGC will consider supporting 700 series cards they are no longer relevant. As of October this year nVidia themselves also will no longer be releasing drivers for those cards, which officially makes them redundant technology. No drivers means no support for new OS patches, security fixes or issues with newly released games, making them pointless to support. Obviously they will still work but driver updates are very important to performance and stability.

It just doesn't make sense for a company developing a new bit of software to put any effort into those cards as they have already been officially dropped. I am actually pretty surprised that TGC kept the 960 as the min spec card as even this is as of October the lowest possible officially supported graphics card made by nvidia (excluding the 950). But as the market share of these 900 series cards is still high it makes sense from that standpoint.

The only answer here is to upgrade your rig, you will also benefit in other games especially after October when you will find new releases will start suffering from the lack of driver support.

I know people are trying to help the user dareESP, But could you try and give the right information.

Support for the GTX 750 Ti is not ending in October as it's NOT a Kepler base GPU
like the rest of the 700/600 series, it's based on the Maxwell GM107 GPU that succeeded Kepler.
The 900 series is also Based on Maxwell 2.0

Critical security updates will be available to Kepler-700/600 series GPUs through September 2024.

Nvidia Specifications show GTX 750Ti as Microsoft DirectX 11.2 API

DDR3 Memory Speed of 1066Mhz = 2133Mhz
DDR4 Memory Speed of 1200Mhz = 2400Mhz

Because DDR memory reads and writes at the same time they sell it by
the effective speed X2 of the actual speed.
Below is a better way to explain it!
The name "double data rate" refers to the fact that a DDR SDRAM with a certain clock frequency achieves nearly twice the bandwidth of a SDR SDRAM running at the same clock frequency, due to double pumping

@dareESP
I would have at a guess your poor performance is your GTX 750Ti 2GB Video
buffer, Game Guru Max needs 4GB of video memory these days.

Your CPU is a Great Chip, But has slow single core mark of about 1400, Game Guru
works best with High single core CPU's of 2000 marks and above. as it won't use all 6 cores.
(I don't have MAX maybe it uses more cores now than GGC did?)

Just to give people an idea of how CPUs have move on

Your CPU Mark of = 6116 with a single core score of 1397
i3 10100f Mark of = 8781 with a single core score of 2611
4 cores and 8 threads COST = £80.00

With a new GPU say a 1050ti 4GB or better still AMD RX 570 4 GB the rest of your computer should be up to running GG MAX.

25-WATTS you are correct I had forgotten that the 700 series had a weird mix of architectures and 750 Ti is a Maxwell, thanks nVidia for the confusing mix.

As you point out though the 750 Ti is still an underwhelming card and the video memory will not be up to scratch by modern standards, it doesn't change the fact that this is now among the lowest of the low supported cards from nVidia and they will end support for those as well as you mention, in development terms 2024 is not a long time in the future.

''Nvidia Specifications show GTX 750Ti as Microsoft DirectX 11.2 API ''
Software only it supports DX12 too .There is a difference between hardware level and software level support. Some game require software level support some require hardware support. So mentioning it doesnt support DX11.2 means it doesn't have dx11.2 hardware support doesn't mean it can't run DX11.2 games

You could run all the synthetic benchmarks you want on a CPU but it doesn't mean a GPU bound program like gameguru max or for that matter any game will run any faster or slower up to a point. Wicked engine is GPU bound so no, min requirements for max is a dual core, recommended requirement is a sandy bridge 2300, (A second core gen CPU).

25-WATTS thank you very much for your help. I agree with what you say and I understand that the only weak point really in my computer right now for a medium-high usage can be the GPU, which following your advice I will try to upgrade as soon as possible to one with better performance and more RAM.

I'm sure there are many technical reasons behind it, but other game maker engines have a better performance with my current specifications, and I'm very surprised that GG MAX didn't have it.

I still love this product because I honestly find it super intuitive, easy and fun to create video games. For the time being I will continue with GG Classic.

Thanks a lot guys!

have you checked with windows task manager what your performance manager is reporting?

Yes, and is almost not using resources. That was the point why I raised this ticket.