Product Chat / How to import big maps??? .dbo screwed it up..

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Mr Love
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Posted: 29th Apr 2021 23:16
I wonder how to import bigger maps over 100000 polygons? I have tried Deled .dbo exporter but the .dbo screws up everything just like in Gameguru, no roof or walls so I fixed it in fragmotion (Fragmotion is not good at highpoly objects).
Is there a to .dbo converter that really works and who doesnt screw up the models out there???
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synchromesh
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Posted: 29th Apr 2021 23:35 Edited at: 29th Apr 2021 23:36
If its GameGuru your referring to then you cannot .
Unless im mistaken.
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granada
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Posted: 29th Apr 2021 23:53
Just bring in as a X and it will get converted , or should do

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Mr Love
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 00:39
Well, thats very basic Dave, but GG screws up some bigger maps when converting... :/
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granada
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 01:02
Quote: "Well, that's very basic Dave, but GG screws up some bigger maps when converting... :/"

Sorry i was busy at the time , but that's all i really do , also i think Synchro is right you might be getting a little ambitious there and GG cant handle it

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synchromesh
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 09:48 Edited at: 30th Apr 2021 09:48
I think for a single model 25,000 polys is about your limit in GG.
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wizard of id
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 11:04
Quote: "I think for a single model 25,000 polys is about your limit in GG."

Actually no the limit is higher, lee increased it some time ago, he even updated the DBO format to accommodate more polygons. X files do have a limit, and the DBO format in fragmotion has a limit because of the old outdated format.

A way around this is to export the model as either FBX or obj import it into max let the software create the DBO file and bobs your uncle, should work just fine. You could also just import the model as a FBX file into classic, however classic is really iffy, best solution is using max to create the DBO file and use that, even the FPE file for the time being is backward compatible with classic, so you can theoretically copy over the entire model and fpe in most instances of course textures aren't backward compatible so you will need to adjust for that.

You should be able to use just the DBO file and create a new FPE file, but with multitextures you will run into issues, as you will need to follow the mesh and texture order, otherwise it won't work correctly when assigning textures in the FPE file. Technically .obj format has a limit of 250K.

Here is a 50K DBO file in gameguru classic, containing 13 multitextured materials with several being 4k textures, renders no problem.

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synchromesh
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 11:25
Great info !!
I was not aware of that.
My modelling skills are limited and basic so i do not think i have ever even reached the 25,000
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wizard of id
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 11:39
Quote: "Great info !!
I was not aware of that.
My modelling skills are limited and basic so i do not think i have ever even reached the 25,000 "
Lol I haven't used x files in many many moons, 4 odd years. When I do use it for animation purposes, it is quickly converted to DBO and use that. X files is a hassle when you want to convert to another format or quickly edit the model again. With DBO you can go back and forth without issue.
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Belidos
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 11:51 Edited at: 30th Apr 2021 11:53
Quote: "With DBO you can go back and forth without issue"


What do you use to do that with the new format .DBO files?

Recently it come up after someone had checked in with Lee as to whether they could add the .DBO format to a tool and he was told by Lee that they have closed the format for .DBO and would not be allowing it to be added to 3rd party tools, and that some of the authors of other software that use .DBO have been asked to remove the feature, hence why Fragmotion hasn't updated it's .DBO to more recent versions. So i'm really interested in finding software that can do this with the newer .DBO format so i have a tool that i can use, because i feel the same way as you about .X.
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3com
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 11:55
I've loaded my space mothership and GG works fine, there might be a video in my thread, with the astronaut taking a walk around, in GG.
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wizard of id
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 12:24
Quote: "What do you use to do that with the new format .DBO files?

Recently it come up after someone had checked in with Lee as to whether they could add the .DBO format to a tool and he was told by Lee that they have closed the format for .DBO and would not be allowing it to be added to 3rd party tools, and that some of the authors of other software that use .DBO have been asked to remove the feature, hence why Fragmotion hasn't updated it's .DBO to more recent versions. So i'm really interested in finding software that can do this with the newer .DBO format so i have a tool that i can use, because i feel the same way as you about .X."
Old dbo files no problem, new ones no solution as yet. So generally just keep a backup of the object file. For content others made unless they release the object or FBX files with it, no, which is a good thing honestly, piracy and all that.


It makes it harder for some one else to take content from max and classic and do things with it they aren't suppose to be doing with it. Which is why the cold war pack DLC is in DBO format for the majority of content, and pretty much useless outside of gameguru, and less likely to be pirated as it is pretty much worthless outside of gameguru.That said I have all the original obj files and source files stashed away, 90 odd gigs of it.

The bigger issue I had was lots of users have taken content from classic and max and converted it for use with UDK and unity ect, once it gets to that point, there is zero control about how the content gets used.Which is definitely an issue for me. While the license allows free use, reigning things in and keeping content localized in my personal opinion is great.

I think the other reason why they probably keeping tabs on DBO file format, is because of sketchfab, partnering with them, likely required some restriction and protection of their content and users, which again is great. I regularly check the internet on the cold war pack, whether or not some thing illegal is happening with it or in other engines and to date with reverse image searches and general searches I haven't found any thing. Not to say it isn't, but the content is pretty unique and haven't found any thing like it else where, copied or otherwise which is awesome.
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 12:59
All makes sense from a content provider point of view, from a user view that wants to adjust models they have bought, kitbash type approach or any updates to customise and make the model work better in their game, then purchasing a closed format dbo model is pretty much a showstopper. I stopped buying DLCs because of this. But for a lot of people I guess it's OK.

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wizard of id
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 13:44 Edited at: 30th Apr 2021 13:47
Quote: "All makes sense from a content provider point of view, from a user view that wants to adjust models they have bought, kitbash type approach or any updates to customise and make the model work better in their game, then purchasing a closed format dbo model is pretty much a showstopper. I stopped buying DLCs because of this. But for a lot of people I guess it's OK.

Cheers."


Gameguru assets is generally a end product model, meaning it isn't like udk or unity based model that may or may not require several parts to complete. Adding a dirt map or such can be done without having physical access, retexturing is really a moot point with DLC's as the generally have several versions often with different colors and such.Really don't see the need with a well construct and build DLC why there needs to be a changes made other then the most basics.

TGC content has been mostly free for all, so more protection is great. I could also argue content is a dime a dozen so you more then likely to find some thing that fits your needs.Content protection is vital and entirely up to the creator whether or not they want to allow editing. Most would probably prefer to use using a DBO format, considering having often worked hours on creating the content in the first place having better control over how, where and when it is used is pretty great.

It is a step in the right direction, it has it's drawbacks, but you either need to accept that things are going to change or look at other avenues for content, which may not be necessarily cheaper or better.

Additionally DLC's changed in recent years, with the exception of a few in the early days gameguru, TGC isn't the license holder of the content any more, content is leased from the developer for a period of 5 years after which the license can be extended or the content license reverts back to the developer. Additionally their new license agreements isn't exclusive, so the developer can sell their content else where, as it the case with alot of the DLC's which you can find on the UDK store front you will be paying a LOT more but that should give you the freedom you want. With the addition of stechfab, gameguru store, and wider format support, I don't think that having a closed format is bad you have other options as well, don't think it is an excuse either with having more options available it isn't a must have either.
Having options, and better protection of content, far outweighs the odd users wanting to customize they could always ask the developer if they really wanted to, they can either say yes or no, or even charge a small fee if they wanted to and you really needed to have access.

I really don't see the need to have access to it, there is really 100's and thousands of models out there it shouldnt affect average joe or the seasoned developer in the least.
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 14:12 Edited at: 30th Apr 2021 14:13
Quote: " retexturing is really a moot point with DLC's as the generally have several versions often with different colors and such."


Retexturing is essential as you will otherwise end up with a bunch of 3d media that all have different look, style and colors. Something as simple as recoloring the wooden boards (some fantasy packs have contrast heavy, colorful wooden textures while some more post apocalypic designs are almost greyscale.) or something more complex as overhauling all of your asset media to go with your very own style is present in all decent indie games out there. However, given that textures are usually in .dds, .tga or .png there is very little in the end users way to prevent them from doing just that.

However, if you want to edit the UV's, which I do frequently, you will be rather screwed with an all .dbo approach. However, I can also see why you would want to protect your content, wizard, so there is that. I generally agree with you.

Quote: "I wonder how to import bigger maps over 100000 polygons?"


In GG Classic, you don't. Unless you either don't want to work with working shaders and have all the shadow/lighting problems inherent there. Or you make sure to fit all your texture needs on a single 4k texture sheet which is still a very bad approach. Keep in mind that performance and AI navigation will also suffer if you just drop in your level as a single mesh. Even engines like UE4 or Unity will have drastically worse performance if you import a whole level as compared to modular level pieces.

Which is what you need to do if you want to work more sensibly, cut your level into small modular pieces and import those individually.
GG max will likely be a bit more lenient when it comes to using multiple textures on the same model consistently so you can import larger levels into it like you plan to... with gg classic it will end up being nothing but trouble.
wizard of id
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 14:33
Quote: "Retexturing is essential as you will otherwise end up with a bunch of 3d media that all have different look, style and colors. Something as simple as recoloring the wooden boards (some fantasy packs have contrast heavy, colorful wooden textures while some more post apocalypic designs are almost greyscale.) or something more complex as overhauling all of your asset media to go with your very own style is present in all decent indie games out there. However, given that textures are usually in .dds, .tga or .png there is very little in the end users way to prevent them from doing just that"
With max it is a moot point as you have full screen shader effects, which can give you a unique contrast or effect needed suited to your game or style.

However you don't necessarily buy content or DLC to a fit a style, you generally create your environments around the style of assets you have, or you generally model and create your style to fit your needs.

Additionally I could argue that at the price point and what is being asked for content compared else where, content providers could charge additional to provide that freedom people might need. Additionally I could argue, most artist don't intend that their content be used outside the bounds and scope they created in most cases at least, dlc's is created with a theme and style to be as generic as possible unless it is a specific themed pack.
Some might not like it, some will but those that don't are the minority at best. If people want the freedom, I would be more then happy to oblige, pricing will reflect it however.

Ability edit and change models as you see fit, isn't necessarily the norm, it is a nice to have, Besides most people wanting edit and change things or likely the same people that create their own content or have the know how, so it doesn't necessarily make sense to me. lol
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 16:13
Quote: "Really don't see the need with a well construct and build DLC why there needs to be a changes made other then the most basics."


I wasn't trying to start an argument - I understand your point, totally get it, but I also have mine which is equally valid to me even if you don't personally agree . No worries, it is what it is.

Cheers.
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Mr Love
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 17:22
Using Max as a .dbo converter is brilliant! I didnt think about that...
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wizard of id
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 17:32
lol no worries, probably the most mellow discussion on the forum ever, so don't feel bad lol . Could have been worse and it is great having view points from a users and content developer alike We may not agree. But it definitely points towards concessions that neither party are happy with. Definitely feel that the way tgc generally treated licensing artists work, perhaps wasn't always fair, in that content could be moved to an environment where you have no control over the usage, to now if the artist wanted to restrict and better control it.

So now you have the question of whether you want to keep one or the other party happy, having restrictive licensing isn't the tgc way, keeping the licensing as it but giving the ability to protect media better is awesome to artists, but not to the guys wanting to tinker, about sums it up lol
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Mr Love
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 17:41 Edited at: 30th Apr 2021 17:58
.obj wont create a .dbo in Max, but good news, i just imported an .x file with 150000 polygons.
Dont know if it works in GGC but I will try it out now to see if it works...
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synchromesh
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 17:56 Edited at: 30th Apr 2021 18:00
Quote: "I tested it out and Max sadly wont create a .dbo when importing an .obj file"

It does for me ?
Unless its not importing at all ... Every Import converts to .dbo.
Max cannot run any other raw format.
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Mr Love
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 18:00
Where is it then??? Not in the same map as my .obj model?
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3com
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 18:13
It does for me too. If you do not set any custom path, it may be in the user folder.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 20:20
Quote: "Where is it then??? Not in the same map as my .obj model?"

By default its saved to your GameGuruApps entitybank user folder.
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Mr Love
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Posted: 30th Apr 2021 21:53
Well thats good News. Ill check tomorrow I really need to soft down for a while, playing My Formula 1 game for hours phew!
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