What I'm trying to announce I would like to have my model or models not only used one diffuse specular and bump of the size of 4024 x 4024 I would love to use different textures on my models using your engine only at 512 x 512 instead of using 1 diffuse using about 30 or more and follow that up with some spectacular and bump Maps if I use 512 x 512 it makes the game Run a lot better but using your settings makes the game lag a lot if you understand what I mean so you can put more down in your map and it would look very nice and play a lot better You will see a big difference with using Game Guru and you're old engine fPS creator making that change if you try to do this and let other people choose to use different textures for there models or they have a choice of using one diffuse textures or using one bump map and one spectacular and also choosing to use 32 diffuse 32 spectacular 32 bump maps to make the game Run a lot smoother and better for fPS frames. 512 x 512 seems to be the better way to go To make your product work and play Perfect

Actually it is 4096 x 4096 commonly referred to as 4k textures, and no whether it is classic or max, 512 x 512 textures would look absolutely terrible in classic or max especially with the average screen resolution of 1080p these days.

While small textures is useful for smaller objects like I can or beer bottle as an example even that is going to have some quality issues these days with the bigger screen resolutions people are using.Besides classic is able to divide textures in half in the setupfile "dividetexturesize=1"
to improve performance.
With max especially with VR is going to require higher res textures , to produce quality levels and textures.512 x 512 really isn't good enough these days for most objects, textures would be extremely pixelated and the quality overall would be pretty bad.

A game developer knows for a fact that you always have to have your textures into a stage that basically you will not have a lot of frame lag knowing that having your model having high detail textures going so high resolution it will lag no matter what and you do not know what you're talkin about a lot of game engines require 512 x 512 no matter if your screen resolution is set to a higher slight sort of speaking cry Tech has been using 512 x 512 for years on all their games warface crisis and I've been looking and doing some research a game development the only problem is I already know for a fact that I could do it I already know for a fact that I could basically use my textures the way I need to but I really made this decision by not using Game gurus engine and going on for word to unreal Engine they ask for a lot more and you can make your 512 x 512 textures look a lot better than they do in game Guru have a great day

I think this is a good point, ScorpionJR1982.

"Besides classic is able to divide textures in half in the setupfile "dividetexturesize=1"
Cool. Thanks for that tip wizard of id. Surely GGjr doesn't need ultra-mega textures?
I need a game that needs help because it's running at 10 FPS will check.

>>>
I checked the setup file, and it's ALREADY set to >dividetexturesize=1< and that
wasn't me (cause never heard of it before!), so that won't be helping out much?

I was hoping, because your idea that the highest textures possible should
be the norm for GG (or MAX!), is just one opinion formulated for one specific
genre of game-- the direction that limits GG fundamentally at the foundation.
I respect your expertise in modeling, just am very adverse to limits or being
given some kind of limit- whichever direction it comes about.

There's big names on Steam (or consoles for that matter), that are tiny textures
as well as the ultra textures, and all in between. Man, some of them derive their
popularity from modest texture sizes, and game-play physics / quest / building /
/ defending / managing, etc CONTENT!

BTW 768x768 textures is possible?

While technically you could use NPOT textures, the issues really is that due to compatibility issues with graphics drivers and graphic cards power of 2 squared is used. 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, 512, 1024, 2048 and 4096, occasionally you will find 8 k textures in games these days. In fact UDK enforced power of 2 rule for quite some time.

While you could use NPOT textures, some engine have particular strict rules in this regard, and some times won't render the texture at all, as the engine now has to take your NPOT texture and convert and make it power of two to be able to use things like mipmapping, which is use in gameguru especially with DDS textures. This actually entails a performance hit.

While it would make little difference in a small 2D game, the knock on effect in a complex 3D game with lots of detail WILL result in performance degradation. Gameguru classic has its routes in DBO classic which means it isn't as flexible with textures as more modern engine, we are talking about some thing that was created over 15 years ago.So from a performance and compatibility standpoint it is a hard rule for any artist in gameguru while not technically not enforced you will have issues especially with mipmapping, which gameguru uses for pretty much any texture in gameguru from, terrain to decals.

Classic system requirements at the time of release supported older graphics cards and still support older graphics cards.

It is really only after the Nvidia 6X00 series that there was better support for NPOT textures, people using older GPU's which is still very likely in some cases these GPU's may result in Serious performance issues, gameguru crashing and in some cases textures not rendering at all. Opengl 2.0 has support for NPOT textures but gameguru only uses DX rendering pipeline.

So it is a hard rule but not enforced rule for gameguru that textures are required to be power of 2 squared, especially with DDS textures and mipmapping.

Back to why 512 x 512 textures is really bad quality wise.


Entity in gameguru with a 4096 x 4096 texture and a 1080p screen resolution, this is my default screen resolution, the quality of the texture won't improve with a lower screen resolution.


Same entity with a 512 x 512


The difference is day and night.

Textures take up GPU memory, the average size of a 4096x 4096 textures with an alpha channel is 23 odd MB, and if you use and reuse an atlas texture for several different entities it only loads the texture atlas once for all the entities that use the same atlas. Gameguru has been using this method since the start, so it uses very little GPU memory overall. So you can use the same barrel a 1000 times in a level and it will still use the same amount of GPU memory as if you placed one barrel, you will only be limited by the amount of polygons you will be able to render in a scene.

There is a much higher performance penalty using a high polygon model versus a low polygon model with an exceptional higher quality texture.If you use a texture atlas for several different entities you can get away with higher polygon models with min performance hit as you only need to load the textures atlas once.

It is cheaper and far less of a performance hit to make a texture atlas with several different oil barrel textures, then having several barrels each with their own texture as each barrel texture will need to be loaded into the GPU memory at least once, versus the texture atlas which is loaded once for several different barrels.

Max requires 4k textures as a min for VR. As the default min resolution of a VR headset is 1080p, with better VR units supporting 4K resolution. 512 x 512 textures on vast majority of entities simply won't cut it at min you shouldn't be using less then 2k/1k textures for med size objects, with the rare exception of 512 textures for really small entities.

If you look at the cellar demo folder the large objects like ceiling and walls all use 4k textures with the rare exception most entities are 2k and every texture is power of 2 square. 4k textures is pretty standard and default texture size these days, it is pretty rare to see entities below the 1k mark let alone the 4k mark.

It isn't based on opinion having been creating content for TGC products from FPSC classic to X10, gameguru and now max, having released several thousand of models close to 15 years now, pretty well versed in creating content and having released my own model pack on steam via TGC and selling another, it comes down to experience and plenty of trial and error and mistakes, I can confidently tell you a 4k texture would be less of a performance hit rendering 30k polygon models with the same atlas then trying to render several 30k polygon models each with their own texture.Besides GPU memory has increase so drastically over the last few years, 4k textures is barely able to make a dent in GPU memory. Next year should see entry level GPU's with a min of 4gb of memory. It is really much ado about nothing.

Excellent write up!
"So you can use the same barrel a 1000 times in a level and it will still use the same amount of GPU memory as if you placed one barrel,"

Okay, must be what I heard called "instancing"? Great to hear.
............................................
"Next year should see entry level GPU's with a min of 4gb of memory. It is really much ado about nothing."
Sure, some of us child like devices bow down to the almighty devices in revere!
So I will be speaking for my device that is crawling in the dirt. (keep this in mind-
for MY device integrated AMD (ouch!))
Okay, but something zaps and saps GG -- and one of those things I suspect
for a bare stock map is the terrain! Then if you have a high texture building
and upon wonders-- you look at it and FPS drop, look up at the sky and nowhere
else, and back up they climb. Just the terrain and some building do this for
a map before animated objects are used, then we must be quite careful?

"It isn't based on opinion having been..."
Sure, but my opinion is at that's one custom fit slot of gaming genre. The industry
is broader and more diverse than 4-8k textures- which I tried to carefully explain.
Your vision is directed at the virtual immersion experience to make it feel like the
player is actually standing in a real world. There's a place for those. Nice work.

Actually it isn't related to building, it is based on the amount of draw calls in the particular frame being rendered. looking up at the sky would have less draw calls, then looking at the terrain for example, which would account for different framerates. Object collision.

You can test this for your self same building, different textures resolutions and you won't get any different frames rates or draw calls it would be pretty much be same.Textures regardless of size do not directly impact frames unless GPU memory is completely full.

Max IS a VR game engine from the ground up, and will require pretty decent texture due to the vr devices being high res especially for the relative small screen size of the headset, the actual screen is a mm from the eyes, so pretty unforgiving with regards to low quality or pixilated low quality textures. Nothing to do with creating super realistic levels.The visual impact based on distance from the display, is more noticeable the closer the screen is. 4k textures has been in use with game guru for at least the past 5 years.4 k textures are more common then you seems to think.