Product Chat / GameGuru MAX : Sneak Peek 13

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 14:06 Edited at: 24th Jun 2020 14:07
Hi All,

For those not subscribed to the GameGuru YouTube Channel, you may not have seen the latest video, so I have dragged it kicking and screaming into the GameGuru forum:


If you do decide to subscribe (and click the bell button) you will be informed when new videos are released on our channel so you can stay up to date with the development progress of GameGuru MAX. I hope you enjoy this quick reveal of Alpha Build 3.
GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

synchromesh
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 14:35
Really Looking forward to the next build
Excellent !!
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granada
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 14:51
Worked fine , progressing well guys

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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 15:07
Excellent, Thank you for your hard work.
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3com
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 16:55
I'm in love with the looks of that scene so far. Nice work all the team.

@ Lee
I hope GGmax taking more profit of the PBR system than GG, do you plan to support curvature, edges, cavity, etc, files?
Note: if you already have talked about it in your previews videos, sorry videos are non an option for me, so I'm forced to ask something then maybe is well explained by you, on your videos.
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Petr Surtr
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 16:55
@Lee: Two questions.

1) Are there updates regarding procedural terrain generation third party software (i.e. Procedural Worlds) and heightmaps support?
I think it's a core feature.

http://www.procedural-worlds.com/

I simply want to know if I'll be able to create my terrains and scenes with "Procedural Worlds" software and then import them in the engine. Can you please give clarifications about that?

2) do you confirm that the new model importer will quietly allow to import .fbx or .gltf models created with "Character Creator 3" and "Iclone 7" Reallusion softwares (or buyed from their stores)?

These are two core features for my workflow needs, and I think that they're in general essential. I'm sure that they would take in many new users to develop with your engine.
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Flatlander
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 17:55
. . . dragged it kicking and screaming . . .
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osiem80
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Posted: 24th Jun 2020 20:39
That milk and bread thumbnail makes me hungry
So, we can put entities in the editor now?
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Nerf Rhett Games
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Posted: 28th Jun 2020 01:02 Edited at: 28th Jun 2020 01:08
I, too, have yet again more questions! Anyways,
(Q1.) Will you be able to buy models that have X, Y, and Z coordinate positional data (looking at this pack from TurboSquid) and be able to import the models to those coordinates without manually dragging them or setting them (Q.2: if setting them manually is even possible?)

-NR

Edit: clarification
Specs:
Building a new PC at the moment, so coming soon...

Some of the games I've made with GameGuru:


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Nerf Rhett Games: nerf-rhett-games.mozello.com
Outlaw Software: outlawsoftware.mozello.com
AmenMoses
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Posted: 28th Jun 2020 13:53
I'm wondering how the artist of say a lamp post knows in advance where all the thousands (ok tens) of users will want it put!
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3com
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Posted: 29th Jun 2020 09:38
As amen points out, there is no way to guess where the user wants to place meshes, at least the mesh is modeled by yourself and the level too.
Quote: " Will you be able to buy models that have X, Y, and Z coordinate positional data (looking at this pack from TurboSquid)"

Usually, the model has anything to do with the load system, but the importer the engine is using for, ie: UE4 can import the whole scene and place every mesh in the same coords, the meshes have to. Here the importer read the mesh coords (xyz,angle) in order to place mesh in the same coords. (Here talking about a composed mesh, ie: a dinner table plus each chair place in a different angle and coordinates, in the world)
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 29th Jun 2020 20:14
Personally I get really annoyed when artists create separate models that when placed using the grid mode build up to a complete scene, they are so inflexible when done that way, for example if you have a separate model containing all the windows for a factory then your only option is to have a factory with all the windows or no windows, you can't have some windows missing or hanging at an angle etc.

Although it has to be said that it does speed up level creation when done that way.
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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 29th Jun 2020 20:27
Nerf Rhett Games are you actually asking if the engine would show you
the coordinates of the models in use-- as you are editing the map?

That would be very nice, as well as it's angles. What we get now --
((((for some ODD reason)))) is just a truncated number - to 3 positions
for 'X' and 2 positions for 'Z' like there isn't even enough space on the
screen to the size /4/ font notice bar...?
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3com
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Posted: 29th Jun 2020 21:18
As a user, I would like to import the whole scene, especially in cases that involve many items like a factory.
Anyway, all have their own pros and cons, with a factory as a separate mesh, it is more flexible due you can change your thoughts and place a chair in a different pos or simply remove it, because of the light direction or some other factor.

Usually, meshes comes with cords zeroed (0,0,0).
Can't remember how it is mostly better for calculating collision, the whole scene, or separate meshes?
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Argent_Arts
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Posted: 29th Jun 2020 22:52
Since the Wicket Engine supports GLTF and Lee said that MAX will support GLTF, importing complete scenes should be easy (since GLTF supports importing complete scenes) ... should be. We'll see what Lee does, though.

In any case, you really want each item to be at world coordinates 0,0,0 so the end-user can easily import, place, rotate, and scale the item to their liking. In most cases, the 3D artist has created each piece at world coordinates 0,0,0 and saved/exported it out. Then they re-imported the item into whatever scene they are creating in their 3D modeling software and positioned it accordingly. This way they could create one item at 0,0,0 and duplicate it multiple times, placing it as they please throughout the scene.

If Lee implements GLTF import, then you could take an entire scene assembled in another 3D software (like Blender, for example), export it as GLTF and import that entire scene into MAX. The scene would appear at world coordinate 0,0,0 (if that's where it was positioned in the 3D software), but each individual model would appear where it's supposed to according to where it was placed in the scene.
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 29th Jun 2020 22:59
I doubt very much we will get scene import capabilities, It would require massive engine changes to support it for Physics, AI mapping etc.
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3com
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Posted: 29th Jun 2020 23:19
Return to the above example, when you import a whole scene it should not only be positioned accordingly with the stored data, but each mesh should be treated as standalone mesh withing the engine, this gives you the ability to edit them in the editor.
UE4 gives you even the ability to model the collision mesh in your 3d soft, and import it with the mesh, that way you can get a most accurate collision mesh.
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DVader
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Posted: 30th Jun 2020 01:23
Well, we can already load scenes into GG as one object. They are just one object though and are set in stone as far as GG goes.

Wicked does indeed load up an entire scene using the same option as loading separate models, but only a scene made in Wicked itself (as far as I know) not a scene made in Blender or 3ds. I haven't tried it mind, perhaps a scene model made of many parts would remain in those parts when loaded into Wicked. I've only tried some GG models and a few custom ones as yet and not attempted loading several objects in one go. It could be useful of course (particularly for a cutscene animation of some kind) but not essential by any means.
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Argent_Arts
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Posted: 30th Jun 2020 08:33 Edited at: 30th Jun 2020 08:33
Quote: "Wicked does indeed load up an entire scene using the same option as loading separate models, but only a scene made in Wicked itself (as far as I know) not a scene made in Blender or 3ds. I haven't tried it mind, perhaps a scene model made of many parts would remain in those parts when loaded into Wicked. I've only tried some GG models and a few custom ones as yet and not attempted loading several objects in one go. "


Wicked will load an entire scene of models made in a 3D modeling program like Blender via GLTF. It does not need to be a level made in Wicked. And once the scene is in Wicked, each model is it's own thing (i.e. you can select each individual model and move, scale, rotate it, adjust materials, etc.). You can see a bit of this in action in the latest video from GameFromScratch on The Wicked Engine here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi4sDIaIcFo&feature=youtu.be
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Belidos
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Posted: 30th Jun 2020 13:09
It's not exclusive to GLTF either. Unity has been able to do this with FBX file for a long time. If you create multiple objects inside a single FBX export, when it goes onto Unity it goes in as a prefab of all the objects, then you can unlock the prefab and treat each object as a separate entity.

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Argent_Arts
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Posted: 30th Jun 2020 14:12
Yep, indeed. The difference here with GLTF is that it supports a lot more than FBX (PBR materials, lights, cameras, etc.) ... all without having to pay a licensing fee to implement FBX.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 15:22
@3com : No plans to support 'curvature, edges, cavity' for the release, just the usual basic PBR stuff we already have in Classic, plus the new surface texture format. Wicked Engine supports more than this, but I want to give the development enough time to produce something stable, rather than cramming everything in because it's shiny. Also, as the backlash on failed deliveries of features with Classic, I will be carefull edging away from promising anything in any social feed that is not already on the pre-order page. I will probably get enough grief with the interpretation of the pre-order promises without adding more to the list

@Petr Surtr : There are no plans to support procedural terrain or imported procedural terrain in MAX. As to this being a core feature, I am curious if the community would be asking for a pre-order refund if this feature was not included on release. To manage your expectations, assume this feature will not be implemented. There are no plans to directly support exports from Character Creator 3 or iClone 7, only the ability to import FBX files as coded in AssImp. As MAX will not be able to deliver the features you require for your workflow, you might be best trying the Procedural Worlds with Unity or Unreal to see how the pipeline works in those tools. No need to wait for MAX to turn your ideas into reality

@osiem80 : There is no entity placement in Alpha Build 3, only the ability to camera move around a small room created by our artist in the Wicked Engine Editor.

@Nerf Rhett Games : There are no plans to support model file importing that has parent transforms for coordinates, only transforms as part of the child frames of that model, as indeed Classic does now. It is perfectly fine to create a whole room in a 3D art package, and export those meshes/frames as a model into GameGuru. You lose the ability to edit them separately and other benefits such as faster collision and separate material IDs, but you can import a chunk of visual model in one go for sure.

@Argent_Arts : As above, you can import a whole scene but you lose any of the attributes GameGuru provides to the individual elements. For example, if it was a 500K polygon scene, you would have to add 500K polygons to your physics collision universe to stop the player walking through walls, and that's not a great use of available performance.

@AmenMoses : Just as you say

All, I do like the idea of importing a 'scene model' which then becomes decomposed into individual entities that can be manipulated, but it flies against a few basic fundamentals of how the engine is set up at the moment, which is an FPM level composing of discrete carefully defined GameGuru entities. For the avoidance of doubt, there are no plans to support scene importing in GameGuru MAX.
GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 15:28
Frankly, I am not interested in importing scenes in to GameGuruMAX. I like to build chunks, bits and pieces, etc., and use and reuse them in-game. However, it would be sweet to have the ability to create prefabs in MAX from imported models ...
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3com
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 16:35
@ Lee
Thanks for the answer.

Nor as promise, just as personal though, do you see possible to make the collision mesh let's say in 3ds Max, and import it with your mesh to GGMax? might GGMax be able to handle it as a collision mesh?
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Loretta
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 17:27
Just watched GGMax Live Broadcast # 6 .It all looks great!
With regard to the arms.. they look really nice and can we please have arms for women too? Please?

Thanks for the Sneak Peek!
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 17:51
@Loretta : That's a great point! I will forward your idea to the artist, and figure out the logistics. I guess we could re-use the rig, but new texture and geometry are required. I was going for unisex hand and arm set, but I guess they do look kinda male-esk
GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

synchromesh
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 18:24 Edited at: 1st Jul 2020 18:25
Quote: "With regard to the arms.. they look really nice and can we please have arms for women too? Please?"

I thought they were , Very similair to the Mrs anyway
Just kidding of course
But yes agreed it would be good to have a Female set as well for sure
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3com
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 19:22
Quote: "they look really nice and can we please have arms for women too? Please?"

+1
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Loretta
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 20:24
Thanks All! Just no hair would be a start... maybe slightly more slender fingers.. no nail polish.
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 20:48
How about different colours of skin?

Maybe by having switchable textures.



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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 22:51
I'm trying to understand this new development... I guess with weapons, arms are
at the for-front of such devices...
This sounds like it's really tying games down to arrest developer probation--
an ankle brace-- or in this case hand/ arm cuffs with a tracker chip.
Everyone will have the same arms in GG games?! I can hear the Steam reviews now!
When you have a winter game with everything covered in 1 Meter of snow and ice--
what then? Maybe just going camping in the fall- still wearing a t-shirt?

Possible? to have the new CC Character arms by choice represent the FP player?
That way there would be a whole menu of options for the arms- including outerwear.
Also a check box to have the arms appear or NOT!
And if you want variety ((always a winning feature)), you would make it possible
that while in game, the arms are switchable. Anytime.
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Argent_Arts
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Posted: 1st Jul 2020 23:01
I am pretty sure you can model and add your own arms in your own GameGuruMAX games. It's just that MAX will have a better default set than Classic. In other words, GameGuruMAX, like Classic before it, will offer a lot of stuff to get you going "out of the box". But there's nothing stopping you from creating and adding your own content (or buying it elsewhere and adding it to your game). And with GameGuruMAX's better import abilities (using Assimp) that will open an entire world of 3D assets to you.
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JC LEON
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2020 08:31
fly down guy -...fly down...
i think many of you are really too much expecations about MAX..

for about all ideas listed here ( and I'm sure never will be in max) there are some other great tools already like unity and unreal and i surely can assure you that unity and even c# itself i really more user friedly and easy than GG .....

p.s. i preordered max from the first day , have all GG dlcs, licensed fpsc x9 and all paid dlc and always support TGC even in future but this is my mind..
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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2020 16:45
"I am pretty sure you can model and add your own arms in your own GameGuruMAX games."

You are I'm sure correct about a few of this crew.
I am pretty sure that *I* personally cannot. I haven't had the gumption to pick
up a pen in a modeling program. My bad- I admit. Now if as suggested, the
CC arms ((I know they aren't separate-- could they be?!)) rigged arms already in
place in the stock files or expandable as I'm hoping I've heard it mentioned by
Lee (seems straight forward) then perhaps a purchase by user from nice, talented
artists in the store which again is a TGC product to SUPPORT THE WAR EFFORT!
then that just seems like good butter.

Genius idea Lee- glad you thought of it and approve! So let's make CC arms a
switchable choice including arm coverings (heads are- and hair is!), and put a easy
menuized selection for FP Player arms. Done and covered.
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Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2020 22:59
Well there's a DLC pack idea right there: arms! Different skin tones, different genders, a mixture of gloves/no gloves, jacket/no jacket. A set of 10 rigged variations could easily sell for £20 I reckon.

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osiem80
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2020 23:13
The problem with this DLC is, the arms would be just for the stock weapons with same animations, useless for BSP or custom weapons
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synchromesh
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2020 23:29
Quote: "The problem with this DLC is, the arms would be just for the stock weapons with same animations, useless for BSP or custom weapons"

Thats right but perfectly normal .. BSP's are his own 3rd Party Weapons pack for anyone whereas a Max DLC would be specifically for Max and its content.
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osiem80
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2020 23:50 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2020 00:01
So different arms for 5 weapons which are used very rarely?idk
I would propose, lee, Errant AI and BSP should work togheder to make kinda common project on this
GG should have Errant AIs hands from the enhanced pack and BSPs hands as optional stock hands
would be good for us cuz sometimes we need to mix stock weapons with other in game and if the player change the weapon there is allways
the problem of different arms
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synchromesh
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2020 00:05
Quote: "So different arms for 5 weapons which are used very rarely?idk"

Arms for the software . You cant blame Max for that .
Easily solved if Modellers used the same arms for their weapons as GameGuru but they choose to create their own and quite rightly.

But im not other engine experienced, How do users create their weapons packs ? ( Unity for example ) are they just weapons that you can rig to any arms in the editor or do they come supplied with the arms as well ?
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JC LEON
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Posted: 3rd Jul 2020 00:17 Edited at: 3rd Jul 2020 00:18
Quote: "But im not other engine experienced, How do users create their weapons packs ? ( Unity for example ) are they just weapons that you can rig to any arms in the editor or do they come supplied with the arms as well ?"


there are both..i have really great armns+weapons rig for unity and and set of arms rigged to use weapons but these needs t obe animated according with weapons too..but engine like punity have theri own simple animations system built in and thanks to this i managed to animate this simply switching off the weapon model (original was andM4) with aks 74 simply adapting the arm meshes to the weapon animations... this is not possible in gg and i preseume it will never be in max too

https://youtu.be/PNwGWg2VgdE?list=UUwhv8ojCeaintUqMOyLUr2w&t=260

btw in Max if we 'll have separate arms+ weapons a dlc pack with different arms that uses the stock standard anims could be useful that way we could reuse generic stock weapon anims with other weapon models too...
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3com
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Posted: 5th Jul 2020 13:42
I'm not a weapon modeler, anyway, I think it would be nice the guns coming along with a set of seasoned arms gloves, and so on.
I've never bought guns due I prefer to do non-gun games, so ignore how they do it.
Request a weapon editor in GGMax, might be a lot, I guess.
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DVader
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Posted: 7th Jul 2020 16:10
Aren't the arms and weapons going to be separate in MAX? I seem to remember this being mentioned. That way changing weapons won't mean you have added a pair of gloves all of a sudden
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osiem80
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Posted: 7th Jul 2020 16:34 Edited at: 7th Jul 2020 16:34
Quote: "Aren't the arms and weapons going to be separate in MAX?"

the stock ones yes, but anyway, custom weapons and such as from BSP no, its not possible cuz the animations fits only to the specific weapons
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Argent_Arts
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Posted: 7th Jul 2020 16:50 Edited at: 7th Jul 2020 16:51
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Petr Surtr
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Posted: 7th Jul 2020 19:10 Edited at: 8th Jul 2020 00:50
@Lee, thanks for clarifications, I already use Procedural Worlds&Unity workflow, I was only hoping to use it in GGM too

However, no problem, I will focus my GGM usage on VR side, the work you are doing on this aspect is great

@Loretta, completely agree with you about women's arms too
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