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Bisella
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 15:03
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Hi all
I'm back and after a lot of time i restart to use GG
(first of all forgive my bad english)
So...i'm starting to create a building pack..but i've a problem with transparent texture
I searched everywhere for a solution on the forum but i dont find yet.
I create a model using sketchup (my best friend ) and textured a model using a .PNG texture
I export the model in .x file using directx export plugin.
First try - use png texture....dont work poperly (I see through the glass on one side correctly but on the other side I see through parts of the wall) -Second try - modify FPE file using transparence=2 and =3.....dont solve the issue...third attempt - save texture in .dds BC3linearDXT5...dont work......im going crazy....I also tried modifying the window mesh ..... using a zero thickness face and a 5mm thickness face......im going supercrazy...someone can helpme?

The software I use? ... Autocad, sketchup, Spazio3D, pconplanner, keyshot, palettecad, Kerkythea, wings3d, paint.net, torque3d, AxixGameFactory, PD particles.......maybe blender

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Earthling45
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 16:27
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I've had this problem too, in the end it was a problem in the model which i made, after correcting that it was as it should be.
Not saying that there is a fault in your model, one solution is to create a separate group for glass.
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m2design
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 18:09 Edited at: 26th Mar 2020 19:35
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@Bisella

If your modeling software allows you to import a model into a model then you should be able to make this work. See attachments

This process requires two entity models. Model one would be the building, saved with out glass. Entity 2 will be a separate model of just the transparent glass. When these two models are complete go the merge process.

In your modeling software open the building that has no glass in the openings , import the glass entity into the openings and then EXPORT the merged model as the x file. The FPE file should include the "transparency = 2" setting.


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3com
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 19:06
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@ Bisella
Quote: "but on the other side I see through parts of the wall"

I remember something about "cullmode=2" . Play with that value.
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m2design
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 19:21
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I don't thing there is any real mystery involved here. The process explained here has worked for me many, many times. The result is displayed in the attachments in my previous post

1. Create the building with no glass in the openings. Save the building as "building_ proper" + the extension when finished.

2. While the "building_ proper" is still current in the modeling software insert the glass into the openings and then delete just the building (not the glass)

3. Save this glass image as a new model drawing (use the same name as used for the building but add the name "glass" EXAMPLE"building_ proper_ glass" + extension then Exit your modeling soft ware.

4. Re open in your modeling software the Model "building proper" (the model with out glass) and IMPORT the model named "building_glass"

5. IMPORTANT: Do not save this file: Instead EXPORT it as "building proper.x" Your are now done. Close the modeling software

Bring the x file into the GG editor and marvel at what you have done.

Hope this helps.

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 19:43
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Hi Bisella,

Yes transparency can be difficult but it can be in a single X file, i created a tutorial on the subject unfortunatey most of my Youtube videos were deleted, i will create a step by step and post it for you ASAP
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Bisella
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 20:54
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@m2design
thanks for your clear explanation - i try but i don't think can work with sketchup. (because in sketchup i must export a single .x file (without block or submesh)

@GraPhiX
thanks I appreciate it

@3com
I also try with this system
The software I use? ... Autocad, sketchup, Spazio3D, pconplanner, keyshot, palettecad, Kerkythea, wings3d, paint.net, torque3d, AxixGameFactory, PD particles.......maybe blender
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synchromesh
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 22:04
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Quote: " i try but i don't think can work with sketchup."

I create all my glass as separate models in sketchup ( and I use a lot in my game )
There isn't any real way around it I don't think.
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OldFlak
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 22:23 Edited at: 26th Mar 2020 22:31
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@Bisella
Glass is always best as separate mesh, it is just a head banging exercise to try getting models with transparency as a single mesh (ie wall with window) to work in GG.

Using a separate mesh has advantages:
1) you keep all your hair - or have less scratches on your nut if you have no hair
2) if you shoot the glass it will produce glass fragments not concrete dust or wood chips like the rest of the model
3) less tris in your level

So this is what I do:
Firstly export your texture as DDS not PNG - it is better for the engine.
Export the glass as single plane and in the FPE use these settings:

If using PBR:

If using DNS:

Hope that helps

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m2design
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Posted: 26th Mar 2020 22:39
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@synchromesh
I keep forgetting I am (I think) the only GG user that uses AC3D as my modeling software. I am curious, if you create models using sketchup that need transparent glass do you have to insert the glass model into the building model when in the GG editor not sketchup (2 files/models). In other words are you required to marry the two models in the GG editor (with all of the fussing around trying to line things up) or does the building x file come to the editor or store complete with glass as 1 entity.

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Bisella
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 00:11
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@synchromesh - ok...maybe I didn't explain myself well - i don't want to merge the window and the wall in GG (i being to make a very huge building construction kit). if the user needs to join glass and wall will take a long time. I want to create complete models to make building in GG easier. Maybe you remember my first construction kit.

@OldFlak
Thank you so much
[quote=] 1) you keep all your hair - or have less scratches on your nut if you have no hair -> I love my hair
The software I use? ... Autocad, sketchup, Spazio3D, pconplanner, keyshot, palettecad, Kerkythea, wings3d, paint.net, torque3d, AxixGameFactory, PD particles.......maybe blender
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OldFlak
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 02:33
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Yeah, that's where you have issues with transparency, when you have glass as part of the building.

Seperate is better - if you export the building and the glass as seperate models at the same location, they should be easy to put together using grid mode in GG

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Bisella
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 08:59
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Quote: "Seperate is better - if you export the building and the glass as seperate models at the same location, they should be easy to put together using grid mode in GG"


I will try to separate them ..... or find the method to include glass in the building until I lose all my hair
The software I use? ... Autocad, sketchup, Spazio3D, pconplanner, keyshot, palettecad, Kerkythea, wings3d, paint.net, torque3d, AxixGameFactory, PD particles.......maybe blender
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Earthling45
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 11:31
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Hi Bisella, groups weren't actually needed it seems, glass should work without separating it from the file.
I've attached a .zip with a simple quickly made model which has glass in it and it works as it should in GG.
I've also included the skp file for you to load in sketchup.
Hopefully this is of any help.

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Bisella
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 12:01
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@Earthling45
I appreciate it
thank you very much

The software I use? ... Autocad, sketchup, Spazio3D, pconplanner, keyshot, palettecad, Kerkythea, wings3d, paint.net, torque3d, AxixGameFactory, PD particles.......maybe blender
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m2design
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 15:56 Edited at: 27th Mar 2020 16:00
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@Earthling45
At sometime, when you are not busy would you please make a simple cube entity, as shown in the attached video. Door opening on one side. and a transparent glass window on the 3 remaining sides. In the GG test mode walk 360 degrees around the entity.

I believe you will see the problem when you reach one of the shadow sides. In the video I have used the same fpe settings as shown in your video. I believe this problem is universal in GG when trying to use transparent windows as part of the x file.


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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 16:06
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Will do this tonight.

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 16:28
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I only use Sketchup to make assets and all my glass models are single entities, it took me a while to set up a glass workflow that works for me, i will share my workflow via a video shortly, i will make a basic entity with glass from scratch.

Others have different workflows that may also work but i have not had any problems since doing it this way

here are some single X transparent assets i have made in sketchup.

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wizard of id
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 16:35
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@synchromesh
Quote: "I create all my glass as separate models in sketchup ( and I use a lot in my game )
There isn't any real way around it I don't think."


Actually there is a way for it to work fine, I did it for the Cold war pack light source....even background entities render correctly behind the transparent object.




What I basically did was to export the light entity as a grouped entity an not as a single mesh. The group entity contains the pole, the light bulb, the inner glass and outer glass.

Imported the entity into fragmotion, and moved around the position of the meshes, had to change the position of the meshes in the treeline a few times to get the correct rendering order.







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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 18:35
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Hi m2design, here is the result.

I was expecting to get something similar, but it works without problems as you can see in the video.



Download
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1BdsHJ237iZgpWYFkKzaXdv1mcCRndKZR
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 18:48
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@WOI
Thanks I will give it a try.
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 18:50
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Just taking a break for some food, here is part one, part two after a full tummy

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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 19:10 Edited at: 27th Mar 2020 19:11
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@Earthling45
Thank you very much. Some time when you have nothing better to do... Try to put the model in the water, gg transparency is out to get us...

@GraPhix
This is what I get when I place this model in the water. I know dog gone transparency has problems that are difficult to fully test... See attachment.
Thanks guys...

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Belidos
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 19:32
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Most of the time i find that transparency works fine if you are looking through a single plain with transparency, what i i get the most issues with is when you make a two sided glass object with two transparent faces close together to emulate both sides of glass, that's when it occludes other objects. I found the best way to deal with that is to make the glass the absolute last thing in the entity and a separate mesh object within the mesh. Then select the main mesh, then the transparent mesh then export them.

There are still constant issues with entity transparency and the water plane though, they really don't like each other.

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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 20:03
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@Belidos
Entities work fine, it isn't the shader or the model causing the problem, the water plane in it self is being rendered last in the engine, which is cause it issue.The transparency underwater also work fine for entities.

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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 20:30
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wizard of id is right about the glass under water. Early on I could get my models in the water with widow glass to work just fine (i thought).
I could look thru the glass inside and outside points from the building, but the underwater piers of the model did not show below the transparent water line. Preben then added a transparency = 8 that solved the under water portions just fine. (see attachment)

That worked fine but you just can not use transparent glass under water... in any form.

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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 21:04
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Here on the video below, the windows is just 1 mesh (nor seperate ones), transparency going into the atlas texture, nor using "transparency=x" in fpe. Just using "entity_transparency.fx" shader.



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AmenMoses
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 21:17
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The bit I circled doesn't look to be rendering properly.
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Bisella
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 21:30 Edited at: 27th Mar 2020 22:00
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ok man....after a lot of test...nothing change (in the meantime I lost some hair)
I also attach the sketchup file
The software I use? ... Autocad, sketchup, Spazio3D, pconplanner, keyshot, palettecad, Kerkythea, wings3d, paint.net, torque3d, AxixGameFactory, PD particles.......maybe blender

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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 21:59
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Yah, Lee or Prebem, some of them also said something about the render issue.
Hopefully the marathon bug fix will end the problem.
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Bisella
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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 22:04
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Here the SU file
i hope somone can helpme
The software I use? ... Autocad, sketchup, Spazio3D, pconplanner, keyshot, palettecad, Kerkythea, wings3d, paint.net, torque3d, AxixGameFactory, PD particles.......maybe blender

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Posted: 27th Mar 2020 22:31 Edited at: 27th Mar 2020 22:37
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Ok i have egg on my face not sure if i missed something in my haste but that damn pesky clipping bug reared its ugly head

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Posted: 28th Mar 2020 06:57
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Hi Bisella, it looks as if some faces are reversed, hence you'll see through them.
Sadly i'm using an old version of sketchup, so i can't load in the model to check and if needed rectify something.
But i've loaded this model in sketchup online to have a look at it.

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Posted: 28th Mar 2020 07:03 Edited at: 28th Mar 2020 07:20
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Quote: "Here on the video below, the windows is just 1 mesh (nor seperate ones), transparency going into the atlas texture, nor using "transparency=x" in fpe. Just using "entity_transparency.fx" shader."


I'm goint to try this, i did spot a problem whith the windowcube which is directional.
Not as bad as with the model from m2design, but in one direction the windows aren't visible.

Edit:
Also i would like you to go under water again and see if the waterplane is rendered through the glass.
The windowcube renders properly under water, but the waterplane isn't visible.
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Posted: 28th Mar 2020 08:34
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Morning Bisella I have downloaded your SKP I will see what I can do with it bear with me
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Posted: 28th Mar 2020 12:32
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Quote: "I remember something about "cullmode=2" . Play with that value. "

It force 2 sides of mesh to be displayed.
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Posted: 28th Mar 2020 12:54
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is this what you expected ?



how would you like me to send the files to you? if you PM me your email address i will send them directly
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Posted: 28th Mar 2020 18:58 Edited at: 28th Mar 2020 18:59
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Here are the files from my two videos, use as you wish
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Bisella
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Posted: 28th Mar 2020 20:55
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Ok.....maybe it could be the video card
I've a laptop
window 7 home premium sp1
Intel(R) core(TM) i5-2450m CPU 2.5ghz
6 gb ram
64 bit operating system
Nvidia Geforce Gt 520mx 2gb ram
The software I use? ... Autocad, sketchup, Spazio3D, pconplanner, keyshot, palettecad, Kerkythea, wings3d, paint.net, torque3d, AxixGameFactory, PD particles.......maybe blender
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Bisella
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Location: Verona - Italy
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Posted: 28th Mar 2020 20:58 Edited at: 28th Mar 2020 21:28
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPZ2FCWxpsU

here the video

sorry
The software I use? ... Autocad, sketchup, Spazio3D, pconplanner, keyshot, palettecad, Kerkythea, wings3d, paint.net, torque3d, AxixGameFactory, PD particles.......maybe blender
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 29th Mar 2020 10:28 Edited at: 29th Mar 2020 10:29
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Morning Bisella yes the clipping issue as reared its ugly head it was a github post a while ago there is a possibility it has been fixed with the latest build, tbh it did disappear for a while but seems to be back I will test the latest PP with a shader recompile to see if it was in the quash list, if you watch my second video near the end you will see the clipping issue there too
Welcome to the real world!
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Earthling45
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Location: Zuid Holland Nederland
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Posted: 30th Mar 2020 12:52
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GraPhiX, see github issue 722.

Preben has explained why this occurs and after following his instructions, the clipping is gone.
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 30th Mar 2020 14:29
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Thank you Earthling45
Welcome to the real world!
Main PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - Core i7-7700K @4.2GHz - 32GB DDR4 RAM - GeForce GTX 1060-6G 6GB - 1TB NVe SSD
Test PC - Windows 10 Pro x64 - G4400 @3.3GHz - 16GB DDR3 RAM - GeForce GTX 950 2GB - 500GB SSD
Laptop - Helios 300 Predator - i7 7700HQ - 32GB - Nvidia GTX1060 6GB - 525GB M2 - 500 SSD - 17.3" IPS LED Panel - Windows 10 Pro x64
Various Tutorials by me
PM Email Website
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