Product Chat / New Sneak Peek Video #06

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 19th Mar 2020 01:57 Edited at: 19th Mar 2020 01:58
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Latest Sneak Peek video for GameGuru MAX released:

GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

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3com
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Posted: 19th Mar 2020 05:47
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Good news for EBE lovers.
Personally I do not how it works, but it seems most intuitive than before.
I would like to has the ability to group entities and make one with them, in the editor.
Good job so far Mr Lee.
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Zigi
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Posted: 19th Mar 2020 06:44 Edited at: 19th Mar 2020 06:47
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I wish we could add doors, windows similar to as it was in FPSC not just cut the holes but able to position the door and window in place and it would cut the hole automatically to fit the entitiy. Also would be nice to be able to choose any textures for the walls and floor not only from a set of textures. We could maybe create our own set, click create new set then click add texture and browse the textures in our GG folder. Also would be nice if I go a layer down, the top layer would turn invisible as it was in FPSC so I can see what is inside without need to remove the top layer, could may even choose the hide the walls too.

I also wish we would have some curved shapes not only blocks or at least different shapes not only squares. May even able to create custom shapes by moving the vertices around, may even create a new shape from scratch by creating vertices may even manipulate vertices, faces using Lua so then we could go really crazy and create destructible environments and create geometry procedurally..etc

I know, I know my imagination just went way above the clouds and for custom shapes we have Blender, yes I love Blender I am so glad it is exist, I love it so much.
Anyway, I think at least the doors, windows and custom textures would be reasonable request and to be able to hide walls, roofs so we can see inside a structure would be very practical.

Thanks.
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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 19th Mar 2020 08:29
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Fantastic stuff Lee, so much more intuitive.
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Earthling45
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Posted: 19th Mar 2020 08:31
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Custom textures are already possible, you can adjust this texture pallet to your liking and save it.
So we can have multiple pallets if i understood it correctly.

A few hours ago i've sent an email to Lee with a zip-file containing the prefabs which i've shared a few years ago and have asked him if the idea of creating shapes for the structure editor fits in with his plan.
I think that if the shapes have a correct uv, we should be able to apply a texture from the texture source through the FPE.

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Belidos
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Posted: 19th Mar 2020 10:32
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Quote: "Also would be nice to be able to choose any textures for the walls and floor not only from a set of textures."


Erm, you can change any of the textures in the pallet to any texture you want.

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synchromesh
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Posted: 19th Mar 2020 10:42
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Excellent !!
@zigi
Yes you have always been able to use your own textures,16 per building and.
Some pretty cool EBE models are available on the store.
https://www.tgcstore.net/category/543
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Petr Surtr
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Posted: 19th Mar 2020 13:22
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Very good stuff.
Given that in the new engine it will also be "natively" possible to create indoor maps by setting "no terrain" (did I understand correctly ??), wouldn't it be possible to also integrate tools to build quarries, tunnels and caves in the editor?
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JC LEON
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Posted: 19th Mar 2020 14:06 Edited at: 19th Mar 2020 14:07
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suggestions:

1- make some sort of transparency for textures so we can see insied the building

2- make a system to make player to be able to select different folders with textures stored in and use them since only 16 textures will be very limiting

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Posted: 19th Mar 2020 21:12
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Guys GG is great. Well sometimes make me angry as you can see on the vid .

My EBE system: Making ruines with just 1 wall.



Thanks for watching the whole video, you are a very patient person.
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cybernescence
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 06:54
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@Lee - all looks great with the new immediate GUI, though I do think that the aspects shown so far are the ‘easy’ dev parts - is it not better to get on with the difficult work (64bit, rendering, terrain) and then see how much time is left before September for the UI tweaks? I assume some marketing fodder is needed though before potential longish gaps before demos of the new capabilities

Are you still thinking voxel rendering approach? What’s the view on terrain now? Any hints (not promises or absolutes)?

Cheers.


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OldFlak
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 11:00
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Yeah, have to agree there - lets just get on with the engine side stuff. I would think these sneak peaks are looking at what has been done already while under the NDA thingy tho .....

Just make MAX awesome.....

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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 11:42
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Hmmm ... Isn't Lee taking March to work on existing bugs in GameGuru Classic? If so, then I would suppose that's taking up most of his time this month. Perhaps that only leaves a little time to continue with these UI and "easy dev" stuff. From what I recall, the new renderer and new terrain stuff was slated to begin after the March GGClassic bug fixes. So, perhaps a little patience is in order here ...
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cybernescence
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 13:12
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Maybe, I thought it was both Lee & Preben, but could be completely wrong

I don't see the bug-fixes being worked on within GitHub .... though of course could be on a completely private branch for that too.

Cheers

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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 13:34
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Quote: "Maybe, I thought it was both Lee & Preben, but could be completely wrong

I don't see the bug-fixes being worked on within GitHub .... though of course could be on a completely private branch for that too.
"


Regardless, the take-away here is that March was not set aside only for GameGuru MAX coding, but for GameGuru Classic bug fixes. At least that is what Lee had stated would be the case. April was supposed to be the big start to coding the renderer and new terrain for MAX, again, according to Lee. So, again, let's have some patience and let Lee (and Perben) get through March.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 13:34 Edited at: 20th Mar 2020 13:43
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Quote: "I don't see the bug-fixes being worked on within GitHub"

Look again
I have been up all night working on stuff and it looks like both Lee and Preben have been pulling an all nighter as I have been getting fixed reports every few hours in my emails.

Just re-checked we have dropped from around 60 to 44 bugs now since yesterday
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cybernescence
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 14:28
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@synchro - well the code base (that's public) isn't changing but yes I see the issue log being updated so I guess fixes being made behind the scenes which is great.

@argent - stop telling be to be patient - I'm not being impatient, just asking for info on current thinking.

Cheers.



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synchromesh
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 14:41 Edited at: 20th Mar 2020 14:42
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Quote: "well the code base (that's public) isn't changing but yes I see the issue log being updated so I guess fixes being made behind the scenes which is great."

Oh ye you wont see them in that . They just state " Fixed for next release " so ye im guessing their using a separate build. some marked as fixed and others fixed and closed.
https://github.com/TheGameCreators/GameGuruRepo/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Abug
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Teabone
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 14:54 Edited at: 20th Mar 2020 15:00
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For everyone that keeps asking Lee about tunnel building and etc. This is already possible in Game Guru. It should be noted that most AAA studio engines do not support terrain tear or digging etc.

Here for example is how Bethesda builds their underground interior caves/tunnels/dungeons.

https://youtu.be/zvm0CN3tQFI?t=357

Quote: "Yeah, have to agree there - lets just get on with the engine side stuff. I would think these sneak peaks are looking at what has been done already while under the NDA thingy tho ....."


Lee and Preben are most busy this month with the Bug Fixing Marathon. For GG Classic. Least that's what we are under the impression of. I am looking forward to that result. Maybe even more then GG Max at present. Lot of bugs have already been claimed as fixed that have given me headaches for years. So I am happy with that level of progress and focus going on right now.
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 16:02
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Quote: "@argent - stop telling be to be patient - I'm not being impatient, just asking for info on current thinking."


Heh. No. You'll have to be patient in waiting for me to stop asking you to be patient.

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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 17:00
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Tunnels can already be built in GG?!
With models only as far as I know. Not terrain tunnels-- why not have this and
be even more advanced than these other peon engines?

So I was just about to post a OP question on how to put models under-ground
in this manner;; if you try to script a model, and have it move below ground--
it isn't possible. The hard-coded engine seems to stop it. Why?
I know that in versions past, it was inevitable for models to go under ground
with 'move' scripts, accidently and that supposedly was "fixed". But it should be
possible still to allow your models to go under ground by scripts if so requested.

If you know a way to code it to move underground-- please inform!
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granada
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 17:26
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Quote: "For everyone that keeps asking Lee about tunnel building and etc. This is already possible in Game Guru. It should be noted that most AAA studio engines do not support terrain tear or digging etc."


Just a simple hole in the terrain , deleting a couple of tries is all I wanted , no tunnel building

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3com
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 19:36
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I think achive this might need a new water system. Atm when you dig a bit on terrain you get water, this has to change to do so. imho.
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DVader
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Posted: 20th Mar 2020 20:06
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Well you can hide the water or lower it, or raise the terrain So then it's just a matter of having a model or models over the depression in the floor. You could of course make it jump you to another part of the map that looks underground after entering a pitch black entrance

Smoke and mirrors. Many games rely on em
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UNIRD12B
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Posted: 21st Mar 2020 02:35
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The old Unreal engine in 1998 had amazing water zones , time of day and
the ability to do tunnels and below ground levels.
It used subtractive solid geometry....started with one big solid block
like a large piece fo cheese and you could go in and subtract from the solid
geometry to make open spaces either above or below ground by making textures
show the sky box as visible or not.
22 years later......GameGuru,,....?

Unird12b

Let\'s actually make something happen with this one !
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 21st Mar 2020 03:23
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Quote: "The old Unreal engine in 1998 had amazing water zones , time of day and
the ability to do tunnels and below ground levels.
It used subtractive solid geometry...."


Were they using BSP (Binary Space Partitioning) back then? That's an old 3D tech, for sure.
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OldFlak
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Posted: 21st Mar 2020 04:14 Edited at: 21st Mar 2020 04:32
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I would say Lee is just making\releasing videos for the sneak peaks
- What you are seeing of MAX via Sneak Peaks is work already done to what we now know as Classic.
- They be working on bugs for Classic now, not MAX.
- - They have already knocked quite a few off, sadly almost any bug report added now is tagged as an enhancement.
When the bug fix is released, it will be the first real update of Classic for well over 18 months.

They could release Classic with all those new Sneak Peak features now - since it is Classic they are showing.

If they had done that, and then announced MAX to have the 1) New Renderer, 2) New Terrain System, 3) 64 bit - they would have been lauded by all, rather than creating a very unhappy community.

1, 2 & 3 is what will set MAX apart from Classic.
What you will get in April will be Classic with all those juicy tweaks in the Sneak Peaks
What you will get in September is Classic With the big tweaks (1,2 & 3) added. That is when Classic will truly have evolved into MAX.



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3com
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Posted: 21st Mar 2020 08:16
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GGMax has to abandon X file format, or atleast convert X to most frienly format like X file in txt format rather than dbo. It is most easiest fo modify and/or look for errors and fix it. I mean integrated into the engine, no me looking for 3º party tool out there.
Maybe Lee might enter some txt template into the convX rutines.
DirectX is a legacy tech, even DX11 does not support DirectX, it is a pain to develop some tool with the moderns tech and legacy DirectX routines, you has to call them silently from DX11 and so on.

In another words, this is most friendly to work with:


Quote: " Material {
0.752941;0.752941;0.752941;1.000000;;
40.000000;
0.000000;0.000000;0.000000;;
0.000000;0.000000;0.000000;;

TextureFilename {
"C:/Users/user/Desktop/BBB_D.tga";
}
}
}
"


Than this other:
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OldFlak
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Posted: 21st Mar 2020 09:37 Edited at: 21st Mar 2020 09:48
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Yeah, what you are seeing there is an encrypted file, not a pure X file....
Lee is going to keep backward compatibility, so looks like X will remain...

But yeah, X might be old hat, but it works just fine

It doesn't matter what model you put into the GG - X, FBX, ??? - Once the model has been dropped into the editor GG creates a DBO from the original file, and the original is no longer needed at all, and can be deleted.

The conversion is for engine performance.
The encryption is for protection of the assets that come with the engine, and for all models included in the final game standalone.... Kinda needed really....



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Avenging Eagle
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Posted: 21st Mar 2020 09:53 Edited at: 21st Mar 2020 09:54
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Quote: "What you will get in April will be Classic with all those juicy tweaks in the Sneak Peaks
What you will get in September is Classic With the big tweaks (1,2 & 3) added. That is when Classic will truly have evolved into MAX."


Sadly, no - what has been showcased is MAX, classic will not have any of the features or UI updates seen in the sneak peek videos. Just bug fixes taken from GitHub.
What you will get in April will be Classic with a few less annoyances.
What you will get in September is Classic with all the features seen in the sneak peek videos along with the big tweaks, which haven't been started yet.

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OldFlak
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Posted: 21st Mar 2020 10:08 Edited at: 21st Mar 2020 10:24
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Yeah, I know they won't be in Classic - but they could have been.
Those sneak peak features were already destined for the GG, they just made a separate branch after the UI leak, and then decided to put it all in MAX.

The first release of MAX in April (beta) will be testing all those sneak peaks in the real world...
Pretty sure there would be bedlam if the first MAX beta was just Classic with all it's bug fixes in march.

But yeah, I hate carrots.... lol

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Anubis
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Posted: 21st Mar 2020 10:17
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Quote: "Sadly, no - what has been showcased is MAX, classic will not have any of the features or UI updates seen in the sneak peek videos."


Says Who? I do not see any reason, or logic for that matter, for Classic to stay on the "old" Gui and MAX to move to the "new".
All features shown in the sneak peeks, are nothing more than GUI overhauls (or long overdue improvements) of existing GGC (half-done) features.
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3com
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Posted: 21st Mar 2020 10:25
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@ OldFlak
well not exactly
DBO is done most for sake of compatibility, even with DX11,DX9c is deprecated now. imho.
Has nothing to do with file integrity protection, is most matter of file format and encoding, binary or txt that's the question.
One thing is truen nowaday GG needs to work with DBO internally, but it can generate a X file in txt format as well, so user, even non-experienced user might modify atleast the texture paths. An usual issue I've encountered is because the X file point to a old texture paths when I change item from original folder to another one, in that case it could be cool to have that X file in txt format as showed above.
There are many things you can do with DirectX sdk, unfortunatelly it is unsuportted by DX11 and deprecated.
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osiem80
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Posted: 21st Mar 2020 17:41
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@LeeBamber
Hi, we talked about GGM on discord, i suggested adding the possibily to change the enemy weapons in the editor directly thru properties just like in fps creator, u said its a good idea and i should remind u about it before the alpha release.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 24th Mar 2020 20:07
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Before I jump back into the bug squashing pit, just confirming some of the theories above about the Sneak Peek videos. As you might have guessed, they are videos of things that have been 'done' (as oppose to things that will only exist in September), and right now the main 'done' things are the UI, Character Creator, Structure Editor, Dynamic LUA, and some other bits and bobs. By virtue of their existence was I able to cobble some videos together to show you something of what MAX might look like.

March has been set aside for Classic bug fixing, and you can check out the diminishing bug count on the Issues Tracker on GitHub. The repo we are working with is Private so we can move bug fixes across the various product varieties (i.e. Classic fixes will make it into the MAX builds if appropriate). Work on MAX begins in April, initially to prepare an alpha-build promised on the pre-order page. We then stampede to September with MAX development, covering the brand new (and scary) topics of a new 64-bit engine, terrain system, and graphics engine. The Sneak Peek videos will start to cover these very early looks at the technology as it evolves, and will probably have a slightly less polished look as we continue to work on them.

As a catch-all, assume any features mentioned on the forums, on discord, through social feeds or rumour as "No plans to implement X for GameGuru MAX". Refer to the official pre-order page as the main list of things to expect, and of course, the Sneak Peek videos as they reveal more. Happy to communicate, but it must be stressed that the task of writing a new 64-bit graphics engine and terrain system is no small task, and dwarfs any other feature ideas that might pop up between now and September. I ask for patience (too) in holding your ideas back from expecting them in MAX and instead record them on the GitHub issues board so the idea is not lost.

Now back to those pesky bugs...
GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

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Zigi
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Posted: 5th Apr 2020 10:03
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Quote: "Custom textures are already possible"

Indeed, sorry, I had the impression you can use only 16 textures in the entire level but we can actually use a different set for each EBE geometry. That is nice. Regardless, being able to use even more textures would not hurt just in case you want to build an entire building with multiple rooms.

Few more ideas\requests I have:
1. would be nice if we could change the UV coordinates of the textures so we can choose exactly what part of the texture to paint on the geometry. For example from the stock set, let say you want only the ventilator from the wall texture but anywhere you want not only if you add geometry at the right spot. Maybe not changing the UV coordinates but being able to select what part of the texture we want to use maybe.
2. would be nice if we could attach Lua scripts to EBE geometries and so add logic to them. It could be useful if for example we want to be able to hide a wall then we can add the script if player done something then delete this wall or even create doors in EBE..etc
The way it could be done maybe is to be able to save EBE meshes as entities so then we could have the same entity properties as any entity including the ability to add Lua scripts.

Thanks.
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