Product Chat / About GGMax

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MK83
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Posted: 15th Feb 2020 22:14
Is there anyway to start it's own forum? Kinda getting in the way of Game Guru Classic forum. Just a thought.
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Belidos
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Posted: 15th Feb 2020 22:52
I think once it's released in september TGC will probably start its own forum, that's what they did with reloaded, and it makes sense.

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granada
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Posted: 15th Feb 2020 23:44
Quote: "LeeBamberTGCLast Tuesday at 21:24
No plans for a special forum for MAX users but if more users want this corden, I am sure we can sort something out."


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Wolf
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Posted: 15th Feb 2020 23:51
When FPSC X10 was released all we did was prefix our project titles with (X10) or (X9). As I predict GGX to be rather similar to GG I think further fracturing the community would be unwise.
AmenMoses
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Posted: 16th Feb 2020 00:28
I'm a bit worried about this 'Dynamic Lua' malarkey, if they implement it the way I originally suggested there shouldn't be an issue but if not then we may get the situation where scripts written for one will no longer be compatible with the other!
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synchromesh
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Posted: 16th Feb 2020 00:54 Edited at: 16th Feb 2020 00:55
Quote: "I'm a bit worried about this 'Dynamic Lua' malarkey, if they implement it the way I originally suggested there shouldn't be an issue but if not then we may get the situation where scripts written for one will no longer be compatible with the other! "

Well if the file structure is staying the same and its backward compatible your scripts should be fine ?
whether Max ones will work in GG is another thing ?
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Posted: 16th Feb 2020 01:14
@AmenMoses : If you would like to be part of a very small inner circle currently updating the scripts, please email me. For now it's just me, Preven and SmallG but we are making some good progress and hopefully some correct decisions. I would appreciate your input!
PC SPECS: Windows 10 64-bit, Intel Core i7-8700K, NVIDIA Geforce GTX 1080 GPU, 16GB SYSTEM RAM

3com
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Posted: 16th Feb 2020 01:30 Edited at: 16th Feb 2020 01:32
Quote: "When FPSC X10 was released all we did was prefix our project titles with (X10) or (X9). As I predict GGX to be rather similar to GG I think further fracturing the community would be unwise."

Totally agree.

Quote: "I'm a bit worried about this 'Dynamic Lua' malarkey, if they implement it the way I originally suggested there shouldn't be an issue but if not then we may get the situation where scripts written for one will no longer be compatible with the other! "

Now that I'm writing a convo system working for everybody, bad news if so.
I wonder if I can continue writing my scripts, in the old way.

Anyway if GG lua commands does not becomes obsolete for GGMax , and file structure remain the same, it maybe compatible.
New GGMax lua commands (if any) working in GG? , it might work if TGC linclude them in the engine internal code,although it would not make much sense if they perform operations that are not realizable in GG.

edit: fixing quotes.
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smallg
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Posted: 16th Feb 2020 10:47 Edited at: 16th Feb 2020 10:53
Quote: "I'm a bit worried about this 'Dynamic Lua' malarkey, if they implement it the way I originally suggested there shouldn't be an issue but if not then we may get the situation where scripts written for one will no longer be compatible with the other!"

it depends if you're using commands not supported by classic or not as naturally that will cause errors but the core layout for DLUA is basically just some extra comments and a new function to set up the exposed variables... the rest is exactly the same as classic scripts and new scripts work fine in classic without edits and vice versa (just without the exposed variables)

and when i say commands not supported by classic i mean new commands for new features, the original commands are still the same - some of the more common scripts will be updated and may have new versions for MAX (to add support for multiplayer or lip sync etc) but it doesn't break anything currently working in classic
lua guide for GG
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=398177770
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JC LEON
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Posted: 16th Feb 2020 18:27
Quote: "@AmenMoses : If you would like to be part of a very small inner circle currently updating the scripts, please email me. For now it's just me, Preven and SmallG but we are making some good progress and hopefully some correct decisions. I would appreciate your input!"


yes please Lee add AmenMoses you your "inner circle" since he is a freaking lua genius.. if Amen should be part of the TGC team GG scripts and engine features will take the fly.... if you should add amen to the team this could be the best GGMAx addon the engine could have.. even better than new "visual features".LOL
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samoh
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Posted: 17th Feb 2020 05:08
I read in the forum that GameGuru MAX will only support Windows 10 (64 bits). I understand the 64 bit part, but does MAX use any of Win10's new features ? I know that Win7-8.1 only represents about 15% of all Steam users, but that is not an insignificant amount. I have not read anywhere in the forum that MAX will be using UWP.
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 17th Feb 2020 06:04
Quote: "I read in the forum that GameGuru MAX will only support Windows 10 (64 bits)."


My guess is that Windows 10 64-bit is the only OS that is OFFICIALLY supported (i.e. run at your own risk on previous 64-bit Windows systems), but that you'd probably be okay running it on earlier 64-bit Windows editions.
wizard of id
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Posted: 17th Feb 2020 07:07
Quote: "My guess is that Windows 10 64-bit is the only OS that is OFFICIALLY supported (i.e. run at your own risk on previous 64-bit Windows systems), but that you'd probably be okay running it on earlier 64-bit Windows editions."
Well considering, win 7 and windows 8.1(who no one really uses) is the only ones that support DX11. With support having been dropped on windows 7 last month, and windows 8 for extended support in 2023. Windows 10 being the last official windows version in this current form.

Windows 10 is pretty much the option, since you can't even buy windows 8 any more, officially, as it unlikely new cards will have windows 7 drivers.Other Vendors is likely to support windows 7 for at least 2020, there is really no point to keep on flogging a dead horse.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 17th Feb 2020 11:36 Edited at: 17th Feb 2020 11:44
Quote: "I know that Win7-8.1 only represents about 15% of all Steam users, but that is not an insignificant amount."

Another good reason GameGuru will continue to be supported and updated to cater for that 15%.
But IMHO trying to support all the older OS's and low end machines has held GameGuru back.
Its a good call to move on and look forward rather than back with more up to date tech for Max.
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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3com
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Posted: 17th Feb 2020 12:52
If GG stay supporting old system, it never will be the engine we are looking for.
This is said by someone who needed a lot of time to leave the win XP.
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KeithC
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Posted: 17th Feb 2020 13:34
Quote: "But IMHO trying to support all the older OS's and low end machines has held GameGuru back.
Its a good call to move on and look forward rather than back with more up to date tech for Max."


That's it in a nutshell. The percentage of users that having aging (no longer supported) OS's and low-end systems is diminishing each year. As everyone knows (or should realize, at this time) Lee & Co. are not a large studio, dedicated only to this one product. Trying to keep everyone in the loop just isn't feasible, and they shouldn't try. Seriously. If your system can't handle what a larger end-user's group can, it's time to upgrade. Businesses that aren't "future-proofing" themselves are destined for the scrap heap.

Not to worry though; if you upgrade your system and find MAX is not for you (down the road), you'll be primed to use any of the other engines out there that suite your purpose. You might even be able to play that game you always wanted to, but couldn't (ahem....Far Cry 5).
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benjiboy
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Posted: 17th Feb 2020 16:49 Edited at: 17th Feb 2020 16:50
And here's me, just spent half the day rebuilding my XP pc, just so's I can play the No-One Lives Forever games again

Now if GGMax enables me to craft a game one thousandth as good as that I'll be a most happy bunny.
You can't teach an old dog.
MooKai
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Posted: 17th Feb 2020 23:32 Edited at: 17th Feb 2020 23:33
No-One Lives Forever, 2 awesome games... a part 3 would be great
I still have the old big boxes at home.
Old school FPS fan, DOOM!!! Why GG not working on my AMIGA 500?
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JC LEON
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Posted: 17th Feb 2020 23:39
Cate Archer was my secret fiance some years ago LOL
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samoh
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 00:15
None of you have answered my question. First off is the assumption I have a "Low End System". True my Intel Core i7-4770 is getting a little long-in-the-tooth, but I back that up with a GeForce GTX 1070 SC with 8 GB of ram. I have 16 GB of high speed system ram. My DX11 is up to date. Lee said that he was not going to use DX12. Win10 is not a complete rewrite of Win7, just some added bells and whistles ( And a lot of $&@#% I do not need ! ). I had the so called "Free" upgrade to Win10 but I reverted back to Win7, every other update would break my VM's. My system specifications are for the most part nearly equal to yours, just no Win10. So, before I spend 25 bucks on GameGuru MAX (Little as that might be), I would like to know will it run on my machine!
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 00:52
No reason why it shouldn't run on Win7 as long as it is 64 bit.
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Sanguis
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 00:53
Win10 is much more.
It got rid of many kernl things, that were in Windows since win95. That's why it's no more "getting slower by registry", the system is MUCH more stable (except some updates ) and many more. I boot my win10 system to a running, workable desktop in 4,3seconds.
samoh
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 01:52
Thank you @ AmenMoses
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 03:26
We had to go to Windows 10 because Windows Mixed Reality sets this as the minimum specification for VR, and because it allows MAX to focus a little more on fewer platforms to reflect the small team available to support it. All about user expectations (as much as possible) this time around. Remember you still have Classic for 32-bit and other Windows platforms!
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Teabone
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 04:23 Edited at: 18th Feb 2020 04:24
Would it be safe to say that GG Max will still open and operate properly (minus the use of VR) while running in Windows 7 64-bit?

I do intent to upgrade to Windows 10. Just curious.
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Ertlov
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 04:40
unless there is some hardcoded "check for OS version" gate built in, it would.
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benjiboy
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 06:23 Edited at: 18th Feb 2020 06:26
I sympathise with all the Win7 users.
However, Win10 has finally started coming good on it's updates.
Early updates trashed my machines 3 times in quick succession - to the point of having to send 1 m/c back to the manufacturer and sitting on the phone with MS tech support for several hours. My MSI gaming laptop was utterly bricked and the only way out was a new copy of Win10.
But over the last year I have not had any issues and there are quite a few useability improvements over Win7.
I don't like the fact that Win10 update is *not* optional. The o/s downloads updates in the background and then tells you it's going to update next time you close down - filled me with dread every time the message came up, given my early experiences.
It seems quick, but then my new pc's all have SSD's.

If you decide to update your o/s I would recommend buying an SSD, cloning your existing boot drive, (Hiren's Boot CD, (free) includes Norton Ghost). Substitute ssd for boot. Put boot somewhere safe. Install Win10 to SSD. That way you have a simple way back if it all goes wrong.
You can't teach an old dog.
wizard of id
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 07:04
There seems to be some windows 10 hate on the internet, however I did my research and tweaked basic settings and have had no problems with windows 10, with the exception of some programs no longer working, which were already iffy in windows 7.

I have set up windows 10 as a metered connection, will only download when I say
Set up windows working hours so it will only update, between certain hours
Windows 10 also added update pause functionality, which also you to pause for 7 days and you can simply extend that indefinitely, usually do updates once a month, there has been some bad updates, gives opportunity, for updates to get fixed.

But honestly, windows 7 users numbers a dwindling by the day. Those that don't want to use windows 10, either moved to linux or started using windows 7 in a offline environment.

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Belidos
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 07:29
Quote: "There seems to be some windows 10 hate on the internet, however I did my research and tweaked basic settings and have had no problems with windows 10, with the exception of some programs no longer working, which were already iffy in windows 7."


Totaly agree.

Most of the hate for Windows 10 stems from the initial roll out, a lot of users upgraded during the free upgrade period, and had a lot of issues because the upgrade was leaving legacy files and conflicting drivers.

Even right at the beginning if you upgraded, then did a full wipe and install of Windows 10 it worked pretty well, but if you just upgraded it was a nightmare. So many bad vibes came from those issues that people reverted back or didn't bother upgrading, and of course spread the word that Windows 10 was a pariah, that hate stuck and grew, even though in reality Windows 10 is actually pretty good if you install it properly.

Granted it has had its issues with updates, and there were "features" forced on us that people didn't like (windows update not allowing you to stop it happening originally etc.) but it was still a good operating system, and is even better now it has gotten over its teething problems, and with a few tweaks as Wizard says it's much better.

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OldFlak
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 11:12
Most of the Win10 hate revolved around the Start Menu and the loss of glossy window heads and icons - but I was never really fussed about that kind of thing, I was more interested in using software to do stuff with.

Been using Win10 Insider since initial release - at first it was not so nice because of the start menu mess, and the un-unified interface.

But now it is a great OS, for the most part updates are seamless, and (at least for me) the OS just works - I have no idea why I would want to use any previous version, to me it would be like going back to Win 95.


Usually hardware specs are there as a recommendation for the software to run in a usable fashion - so its fun rather than horrible to use.
If you don't need the VR thing then I imagine it would still work on Win 7 64 bit provided your GPU is DX11 enabled - hitting the VR button might cause an unexpected result tho

OldFlak....
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synchromesh
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 11:23 Edited at: 18th Feb 2020 11:41
Quote: "Most of the hate for Windows 10 stems from the initial roll out, a lot of users upgraded during the free upgrade period, and had a lot of issues because the upgrade was leaving legacy files and conflicting drivers."

Exactly .. The Windows 10 upgrade I found shoddy at best even emulating some of your existing programs that would not normally run on Windows 10 … But once you had upgraded it was self activating … A clean install was a whole new world with a very stable, fast and reliable OS.

I had many customers come to me asking me to reinstall Windows 7 and I always told them to let me install Windows 10 fresh first and if they were not happy I would reinstall their Windows 7 free ..
Never had a comeback in fact I ended up doing most of their families systems as well
Apart from the fact W7 is unsupported now any new machine comes with W10. Looking ahead is best for Max.

PS !!
Quote: "And here's me, just spent half the day rebuilding my XP pc, just so's I can play the No-One Lives Forever games again"

Windows 10 Patches are around .. I have both NOLF 1 & 2 running perfectly fine on my machine
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Sanguis
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 11:48
Update troubles were not new for me, with windows10. Mostly every Windows Version since Win 95 could just be upgraded. It drives me into errors all the time. I think it's no surprise. Updating a complete OS to another OS is a huge step. An update is not a fresh installation and so it works. Or even not.
Tarkus1971
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 12:11
I agree the Windows 10 on free upgrade was awful, I actually went out and bought Windows 10 on USB stick, and once that was installed it was fine, not bugs or serious errors at all, and now GG MAX is W10 and 64bit, I think we are all in for a treat.
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OldFlak
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 12:27
It is rule of thumb to do a clean install, never upgrade over an earlier OS. Thankfully, nowadays Win10 updates are seamless.

Quote: "and now GG MAX is W10 and 64bit, I think we are all in for a treat."

Yep, not very often you want to age more quickly - bring it on....

OldFlak....
aka Reliquia
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synchromesh
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 12:36 Edited at: 18th Feb 2020 12:36
Quote: "It is rule of thumb to do a clean install, never upgrade over an earlier OS."

Yep but unfortunately the scenario was to update your windows free first to get the WIN10 activated which didn't help
Once done though the skies the limit
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3com
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 12:39
It was too hard to force me to stop using XP, now with w10 it is relatively fast, love fastest boot.
Anyway I'm having issues with upgrades to last version, it start installing and after 2 hours it thrown an error, and stop installing.
I really don't care about, but it is became a mandotory in order to run GGMax smooth and fine, I'm willing to seek another solutions to be upgraded,
And yes, microsoft was more clear with updates before, and more user setup-able.

Laptop: Lenovo - Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 1005M @ 1.90GHz

OS: Windows 10 (64) - Ram: 4 gb - Hd: 283 gb - Video card: Intel(R) HD Graphics
cpu mark: 10396.6
2d graphics mark: 947.9
3d graphics mark: 8310.9
memory mark 2584.8
Disk mark: 1146.3
Passmark rating: 3662.4

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wizard of id
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 14:23
Quote: "And yes, microsoft was more clear with updates before, and more user setup-able."


Nothing much has change, go to advance settings and you can turn off certain updates if you want, during the search for updates you can choose which updates you want. For example windows wants to download the latest video drivers which I don't allow, AMD drivers is rather iffy and took a while for me, to get a driver that doesn't crash for no reason.Not planning on messing with that, so you can stop optional downloads.

Quote: " actually went out and bought Windows 10 on USB stick"

Why ? get the latest image here for free
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/software-download/windows10

I also did an upgrade rather then a clean install, only issue I ran into, was user access on certain drives, I had to manual change the access.
Win10 Pro 64bit----iCore5 4590 @ 3.7GHZ----AMD RX460 2gb----16gig ram

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3com
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 14:32
I was downloaded iso installer days ago, Maybe next weekend I'll installed it, and I'll be Updated to latest w10 version.
Laptop: Lenovo - Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 1005M @ 1.90GHz

OS: Windows 10 (64) - Ram: 4 gb - Hd: 283 gb - Video card: Intel(R) HD Graphics
cpu mark: 10396.6
2d graphics mark: 947.9
3d graphics mark: 8310.9
memory mark 2584.8
Disk mark: 1146.3
Passmark rating: 3662.4

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synchromesh
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 14:34 Edited at: 18th Feb 2020 14:35
Quote: "Why ? get the latest image here for free"

If your on 7 though you probably wont get the update or activation free ..
Unless you originally applied for it at the time .. Even if you did im not sure it still stands.
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Belidos
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 14:46
Quote: "Nothing much has change, go to advance settings and you can turn off certain updates if you want"


Micro$oft were a bit sneaky with that, some of those update options are (or were i haven't checked more recent updates) only for Win10 Professional.

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MooKai
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 14:56
I’m still using 3.11
Nooooo.... maybe we should come back to the topic, GGMax...
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3com
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 15:04
I've original MSDos source code in anywhere, can't remember if 3.11 source code was released too.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 15:09 Edited at: 18th Feb 2020 15:11
Quote: "maybe we should come back to the topic, GGMax..."

Well the OP's question was answered about a forum and a Windows 10 only for Max discussion is kinda related to the title.
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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 15:11
Back to GG Max, has Lee decided how the save standalone and save game functionality will work, hopefully more reliable than the GG Classic.
I hope that save game options would be available in test game also.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 15:13
Quote: "I hope that save game options would be available in test game also. "

How will that work or even help ?
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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 15:16
Good point, but it would be great to be able to save out variables etc, as .txt file saving time in having to build a standalone each time. Or am I missing something. I did write a simple file IO lua sript to save and reload variables and show/hide entities etc once reloaded. Just a thought.
Aftershock Quad Core AMD FM2+ 3.5 GHz 8GB Motherboard and Processor, A7700k apu, Asus GT970 STRIX 4gb Nvidia gfx card.
King Korg Synth, Alesis SR18 Drum Machine, Akai MPX8 sample player, Roland Fantom XA Synth, Axus Digital AXK2 Digital Drum Kit, Novation Ultranova Synth, Waldorf Blofeld Synth, Roland D05 Synth Module, Bluedio Victory V Headphones, AKG K141 Studio Headphones, Lenovo Ideapad, with Windows 10 64bit, 8Gb Ram and AMD A10 7th Gen Graphics. Acer Swift i3 Laptop with Intel Optane memory, Intel 620UHD GPU, Windows 10 64bit.
wizard of id
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 15:34 Edited at: 18th Feb 2020 15:40
Quote: "Micro$oft were a bit sneaky with that, some of those update options are (or were i haven't checked more recent updates) only for Win10 Professional."
Lol yeah I have windows 10 pro ......

Quote: "If your on 7 though you probably wont get the update or activation free ..
Unless you originally applied for it at the time .. Even if you did im not sure it still stands."
No you download the latest windows 10 image, download rufus, and make a bootable USB thumb drive and install or upgrade to windows 10.

Did exactly that, and upgraded from windows 7 to windows 10.

Additionally if you have a valid windows 7 pro key you can still activate windows 10 pro with that key no problems, technically speaking the "free period" in over. In fact some people have phoned mircosoft to find out if there will be any issues, using your windows 7/windows8.X key to activate windows 10. Still perfectly fine.

The other issue is OEM keys, which has a lot of confusing regarding their use, but they work perfectly fine as well and perfectly legal, because they are tied to hardware I got a few of them for less then 50$. OEM license does allow limited amount of hardware changes before you need to get a new license, so have them at the ready and can just continue.

$280 for a retail license is nuts, you do have the benefit of installing it on a new system as you see fit.


The link provided is the windows 10 ISO downloading tool, works fine with retail and oem keys no questions asked, and you can upgrade from an older windows version no problem and use your legal old windows 7/8 key to activate windows 10. I still have windows 7 installed on another partition, in case there are issues with windows 10, I can just continue without hassle till I have time to reinstall or fix it.

Win10 Pro 64bit----iCore5 4590 @ 3.7GHZ----AMD RX460 2gb----16gig ram

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Belidos
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 15:55 Edited at: 18th Feb 2020 15:58
Quote: "If your on 7 though you probably wont get the update or activation free"


Last i heard the free upgrade was officially over via the GWX application, however they actually hadn't turned the activation part off, so if you download the Windows 10 Media Creation tool and use it on a Win7, Win8, or Win8.1 machine you still get free activation.

I haven't checked on that lately, but that was the last i heard (about three weeks ago).

Also, old Windows 7 pro keys will work for Windows 10 pro apparently.


Edit: just read Wizards post, yeah what he said

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Secondary Desktop:
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Primary Laptop:
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JC LEON
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Posted: 18th Feb 2020 17:23
never had issue on windows 10 and i used it form when it was beta on early 2015 but never upgrade my operating system... always fresh install
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samoh
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Posted: 19th Feb 2020 01:40 Edited at: 19th Feb 2020 01:46
Thanks Lee for your reply. I had forgotten about Windows Mixed Reality. I had not been on the forum in a while and had read about 10 pages of text on GameGuru MAX before I asked my question !

I know this thread is about MAX and not about the OS, but I would like to make a point. I did a fresh install of Win10 on a brand new SSD. My problem was from the updates breaking my ability to copy and paste from WinXP running on a VirtualBox to a CSV file on Win10. My customer has a very old copy of QuickBooks that originally ran on Win95 ! In fact he is still using it to print invoices ! He has about 2500 customers on this old QuickBooks. Having found no other way to convert that old of a program's files to a modern computer OS, I was forced to copy and paste. That's : Customer Name, Street, City State ZipCode, phone # 1, phone # 2, Email. Each value has to be individually copied and pasted. Very tedious ! In fact I am still at it after all this time. Can not stand doing that for very long. I just hope to get it done before his WinXP machine dies. I have had a Win10 iso on my hard drive for some time, but I have avoided reinstalling it because of the pain of moving all my " Junk " to a new OS. When I do install it, I plan on a dual boot, Win10 for the programs that will not run on a Non Windows OS and Linux distro for everything else. That being said, I plan on getting GameGuru MAX before the end of the month. Thanks everyone for your input.
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