So, I've been following the development of GameGuru for years, from the very beginning, I was a backer for FPSC Reloaded.
I think it is obvious now GameGuru is going nowhere. I don't want to start an other hate topic to spread how disappointed we are.
No, let's accept the facts and try to look in to the future and have a friendly discussion.

2 years ago, Lee suggested to people to go to Unreal and Unity if they need the flexibility and power and wait at least 2-3 years to GameGuru become a solid product. Now 2 years later I don't see it becoming more solid, only that it is getting more features and spreading like mud but it is not becoming more solid.

The price for this engine is also going ridiculously low, it is meant to be an engine cost $100 at launch when other engines was cost only $70. And now years later we are able to get GameGuru for as low as $5 during a sale and GameGuru is on sale every 2 months.
This is a clear indication GameGuru is not doing well financially.

TGC did invest insane amount of money and work in to GameGuru and a new big update that brings VR to GameGuru is in the making.
Great, VR sounds awesome but it does not fix the other problems with the engine and only make the mud spread further without making the engine any more solid.
I do realize that, stop development of GG is the very last thing TGC ever want to do and it may even mean the end of the company.
So here is what I suggest.

While continue doing awesome work with GameGuru and bring VR to the masses, I think TGC should also release GameGuru as an Asset Pack for Unreal Engine and call it GameGuru Asset Pack.

It would include a "Game Mode" that basically the FPS game engine with the player, camera and weapons controls that we can simply swap in project settings in Unreal.
And it would include all the asset that we have in GameGuru including collectables, weapons, enemies, ready scripted so after setting the Game Mode in our project settings to "GameGuru" we could build a game with drag and drop GG assets in to our world and tweaking options just like in GameGuru. But we would have all the power of Unreal to add our own content and build the game world.

What power am I talking about?
Lots of high quality materials comes with Unreal Engine for free to use for any purposes.
More powerful Terrain and foliage system.
Vehicles
Powerful brush system and mesh manipulation tools that allow us to build just about any geometry in Unreal.
Destructible environment that allow us to turn any solid geometry in to a destructible mesh.
Cross platform.
Blueprint system that allow us to script gameplay with no coding required, if GG assests would be scripted using Blueprint it could also mean more simple modification.
More advanced AI out of the box.
3D widgets that allow us to create 3D consoles we can interact with.
Online Service that allow us to even make an MMO in Unreal without the headaches.
Integration with 3rd party tools and services like Mixamo, Quixel, Substance Painter

Things that we never going to have in GameGuru.

But wait Unreal is not free we need to pay royalty!
First of all we are talking about the industry leader engine used by big studios to publish titles that was cost $millions to produce, would you rather pay $100k or do you really expect to get it for free or as low as $20?
If you do, good news, Unreal Engines is 100% free to publish games in the Epic Game Store, so if you are really against paying royalty, all you need to do is make your Unreal game an Epic Game Store exclusive and the engine cost you nothing.
But joke aside, you need pay 5% every quarter if you did make $3k or more in that quarter. Seriously I doubt TGC was making $3k every quarter of this year and I doubt anyone is able to make $3k a quarter with GameGuru simply because the engine is not good enough and whatever you do it feels clunky in GameGuru and out of place so people not going to like it.
So, yes you need pay royalty but Unreal also offer tons of features and tools that helps you to make $3k so you can choose to make $0-$1k with GameGuru and pay no royalty or make $3k-$millions with Unreal and pay 5% or nothing if you publish in the Epic Game Store only.

I know Lee did consider seriously few years ago to turn GameGuru in to a Unity or Unreal asset pack and he decided not to because the license does not fit everyone including TGC.
Personally I believe the terms of Unreal is extremely friendly and other than TGC would release an asset pack in the Epic Store similar to Steam I can't see how is this effect TGC negatively.

Why Unreal and not Unity?
Personally I consider Unreal a better engine for FPS games and VR, AR
It is more advanced, more powerful and the license is also way more friendly.
Free version of Unity is getting more and more limitations and you are forced to buy a license but Unity is slowly moving toward to become a subscription based service. From all possible angles, technology, finance, license I do consider Unreal a better choice.

But wait Unreal is technically an FPS engine so why would you need GameGuru?
Well, it is true you can relatively easily put together an FPS game in Unreal where you can walk around, open doors, shoot things and even add vehicles and make things explode, falling apart, yo can also easily implement basic AI where things walking around, chasing you, running away from you but that's it. Anything more advanced require effort and more importantly 3D math. GameGuru Asset Pack could take advantage of what Unreal has to offer and use it to implement different type of weapons, collectables, different type of enemy AI including soldiers, allies, different type of vehicles for us that still require lot of effort to do it even in Unreal and more importantly, require 3D math. FPS engine or not, Blueprint or not, coding or not, you do still need to apply lot of 3D math to achieve things in Unreal.
GameGuru asset pack could eliminate the need for 3D math and offer ready scripted assets and even Blueprint functions that simplify the implementation of advanced FPS mechanics for us.

I do realize some of you may think it is a crazy suggestion to turn it in to an asset pack especially now that VR is coming to GameGuru, it is going to be so advanced and going to change GameGuru completely and open the door the new possibilities.
But seriously just take a look at the features and tools Unreal has to offer.

Wish everyone a happy new year.

You can't 'eliminate the need for 3D math'! (unless you make a 2D game that is )

I was under the impression you could already use all your GG assets in other game engines so why do you need a special 'asset pack', just go make your game using U4 and GG assets if you think that would be better.

What I meant, TGC could implement different type of vehicles, different type of weapons, projectiles, enemies so we can just drag and drop them in to our world in Unreal similar to GameGuru so then we don't need 3D math.


Yes, I am talking about "ready-scripted" assets that you can just import in to your Unreal project and drag and drop and press play similar to how it works in GameGuru.


Yes, I am trying but 3D math is killing me. As I mentioned it is relatively easy to implement basic FPS mechanics in Unreal including simple AI that chasing you or run away walking around, but if you want to go more advanced, you won't unless you have a degree in mathematics and this is the beauty of GameGuru that you don't need math but the engine under the hood is not very good and going nowhere.

Absolutely not.
There are very few things that would motivate me to leave GameGuru and this would be one of them.

When I decided to try GG I paid for a developing game engine, I knew it would be a long way, this means that I agreed to go this way with GG.

That gameGuru becomes an insignificant part of any other game engine, would make GameGuru lose its identity, and I would get off the train.

The solution is to decide if you are willing to travel the path with GameGuru, be part of something unique, from the birth of the creature and be part of its growth, assuming its lacks and needs.

I personally do not have any experience with another game engine.
I don't have another game engine installed in my pc.
And I am not interested in them.
I don't feel any imminent need to enjoy the advantages of having Unreal / unity installed.
I only compare GameGuru with Gameguru

I personally am interested in Gameguru as it is, and I am willing to wait and participate in the development of Gameguru to the extent possible. IMHO.

Edit: adding some quote.

The trouble is, there is no path. It is started as an FPS game maker and turned in to a general purpose game engine but it is not particularity good at in anything, weirdly it is even missing features that we had in FPSC.


I am certain you are not alone but the fact is and it is a fact regardless how passionate you are about GameGuru, the tires are flat, this engine is going nowhere. I have no doubt you really enjoy the product and you are passionate about it but it is going to last only as long you really need a feature or integration with a service that GameGuru will never have. Then you going to find your self looking at other engines and keep thinking about how easy was doing this and that in GameGuru because all you had to do is drag and drop something in to the level and tweak some options and then you are going to campaigning to have the feature implemented but you have to realize it won't be because TGC don't have the money and man power and then you be here giving me thumbs up but it is going to be too late.

GameGuru is sold for $5 almost the entire year, this decision need to be made now until TGC have enough funds to at least get started with something like this otherwise GameGuru will disappear with no alternative.

GameGuru is dead in the water. I'm sorry but this is the true.

"you won't unless you have a degree in mathematics and this is the beauty of GameGuru that you don't need math", the only reason people think this is because people like me do the mathy bits for them and provide easy to use scripts, none of those scripts will mean anything to U4 and the work involved to make all the GG assets & scripts work seamlessly in U4 would probably be far greater than it would be to write a completely new game engine!

I don't have a degree in math btw, mine is in Geology.

TGC could implement a better FPS engine as GameGuru offer now in few months including:
basic zombie and creatue AI
few weapons
doors to open close
switches
pickups

and it would be not complicated to use.

In Unreal engine you can implement "game modes" which is the core that connect all assets in the game and implement common functions to drive the core gameplay. These "modes" can be distributed as stand alone assets that you can import in to you project and change in project settings what mode you use. It is basically determines if you are making an FPS, TPS or a puzzle game.
All other assets like weapons, pickups, enemies, vehicles can be distributed as stand alone "Blueprint" assets that require a specific game mode and can be imported in to our project and we can just drag 'n drop them in to the game word the same way as you do it in GameGuru.

If it would be developed in full time It may require 2 years at most to bring all assets over to Unreal but I would personally be more optimistic about the success of that than the success of GameGuru being a stand alone engine after so many years in development.
Just think about the features Unreal has to offer and you really need to look in to this to understand and appreciate it.

But I understand not everyone need all the features Unreal has to offer, but it is the only way I personally would consider to spend any more money on GameGuru and it will certainly not last long if sold for $5.

This is true and this is the whole point, even you hit obstacles and find things that impossible to implement in GameGuru at last the result is not as smooth as it should be because of the limitations of the engine.

Unreal would be a better base and you could even make more money with selling your scripts because Unreal means more people with more money to spend and more ambitious projects.

No, absolutely not, never, no.

That would be the end of GG, it would kill it completely. UE4 does not need anything that GG offers, almost everything in GG is available to UE4 in scripts, add-ons, and packages already, GG would add absolutely nothing to UE 4 and kill a fun little engine completely.

For professionals, probably not, that is true.
But drag 'n drop, simple game making experience can be valuable to people like us.
Imagine everything GameGuru has to offer combined with everything Unreal has to offer including: vehicles, destructible environments, cross platform export.. I know, you don't need any of this. It is fine I am talking only for my self.


But I'm not talking for my self when I claim that GameGuru is slowly coming to it end like it or not, the question is what alternative are we going to have?
This is over. GameGuru started very ambitious, it is meant to be a AAA FPS game engine compete with titles like Fallout 3 and FarCry 3 but the bar was dropped each year until openly told by the CEO and lead developer of this company Lee Bamber to go and use other engines.
2 years later, (this year) we received bug fixes only, for next year (2020) they have only VR planned for new feature while they are selling the engine for $5. The story of a $5 VR engine just can't have a happy ending I'm afraid and can't take it seriously.
TGC is trying to sell VR as the most important thing in gaming ever, I don't think VR would be that important. No, VR is nothing.
2 pieces of display 2cm from my eyes is stupid and I am talking from experience. I don't enjoy VR at all, it is not healthy.
I think TGC making a mistake with investing in to VR.
If anything AR is bigger and technologies like Magic Leap and Holo Lens those are big but not VR. I realize people love VR, we can come back to this 10 years later when all those people was going blind literally.

No it wasn't, Game Guru was and has always been marketed as a beginners game engine. The drag-'n'-drop interface, no coding required mentality - whilst we never quite got there - is the USP of Game Guru; it's designed for novices to knock up their first few games relatively easily. Yes, I agree with you Game Guru had lost its way until recently, but a quick browse of the forums and GitHub will tell you work is now consistently going on behind the scenes to make improvements. Will Game Guru ever make Far Cry 3 - nope! But that's not what it's designed for.

As for moving all the existing assets over the Unreal, why bother? Most of the assets bundled with Game Guru and in the Mega Packs are at least 10 years old, many don't even have a full compliment of DNSI textures, let alone PBR. TGC would be laughed off stage if they seriously tried to sell their shoddy old assets to the serious developers who use Unreal. They are great for the beginners who use Game Guru who can't model, but aren't much use for anything beyond that. Only the recent PBR-supporting packs even come close to approaching the quality required for Unreal, and most of them are Dekagon model packs originally made for Unreal and Unity that have been converted to run in Game Guru.

AE

Why would you even waste any time answering this post.....
Surely not to be taken at all seriously...

Unird12b

uhm, my experience has been the opposite, GG is the hardest engine i've seen as far as doing math is involved because it has so little pre-built advanced functions... want to turn an object to face another object in other engines in 3D space = simple use 1 line like LookAt(objecta,objectb) - in GG you're fighting against the physics and need multiple functions that don't always work as expected

GG would never be accepted by unreal anyway, unreal is aimed at and used by professional teams/games... (not saying indie devs can't use it, it's just not their intended market)

The alpha code is no longer able to be viewed, but there was far more to it than that ... it's obviously up to the devs as to what, if, when, why they deliver updates, for how much and to whom, but I saw a lot of great potential:

* A hugely improved UI, with search and entity categorization and selection through naming of folders and assets. The clunky UI frame was removed and this improved the editor look and feel and speed.
* A new character creator with lip synching and character head tracking and body movement
* VR - a lot of code updated for this, serious amount, with visual performance updates that have rippled out already (e.g. DCO)
* Multi-player using Photon services
* Lots of other performance improvements (especially for loading - multi-threading of images and assets)

GG doesn't look dead to me even if only half of this is released. I agree it's sold too cheaply. I think you are possibly underestimating how much effort it would be to 'front end' GG onto Unreal to hide or overcome the aspects people find difficult. I'm still staggered that some people think 3D game development can be made really easy once beyond relatively simple games.

I don't think the phrase 'go and use unity or unreal' was ever meant to upset or goad people or to indicate the towel was being thrown in the ring, it just means if you can't wrestle what you want out of GG now and/or can't wait for features then there are other (much) more mature engines out there to try. Lots of people started with GG and are now making fabulous looking games with Unity/Unreal. Others prefer to stick around here or try a bit of every engine.

GG can be a nightmare once past simple stuff, especially as there is relatively little documentation and with no published development road map and often months and months of dev silence it can get really frustrating as to what to expect (unless you can interpret the source code updates, though that has gone now too), but I don't think converting it as a wrapper for other engines is the way forward.

Cheers.

No need to explain it to me, I was there at the very beginning when Lee had nothing but a square on the screen and he was talking about in his blogs all the possibilities FPSC:R can become and was compare it to AAA titles and AAA was the aim at the very beginning. Only after when he realised the performance did not increased that much he was hoping and had no idea how to improve it he begin to drop the bar.

But it is actually true that GameGuru was always marketed as a beginners engine but it is started it life as FPS Creator: Reloaded and that meant to be a AAA FPS game engine so when it become GameGuru "the easy game maker" I was suspect the dream of FPSC:R was dead.


I don't know why Epic would not allow a good quality FPS asset pack in their store. But I agree on that it is need to be good quality. This is also a good point about Epic, they don't allow any trash in to their store.
In my opinion some of the PBR assets would be good enough, but I agree to aim should be not less and may require some new assets.

But it doesn't need to be distributed through the Epic Store. It would be possible to buy it directly from TGC, download it in a zip and then we could just import it in to our Unreal project.

Zigi.. i dont want to hurt you but I'm afraid you're still under the effect of the post-Christmas
drunkenness

Again i will say it, gameguru has NOTHING to add to UE4, EVERYTHING GameGuru can do including its "easy" functionality can be done with scripts, add-ons, and packages already readily available from their store.

GameGuru is not dying, it is improving on a daily basis, the next major update will be huge.

Its not in the area i would like it to be, which is why my store projects will be packaged for unity and other formats instead if gameguru starting in the new year, but it is getting better and they are working hard.

GG is not slowly dying.

You seem to do this every year, reappear, tell everyone GG is dying because its not going the way you want it to, suggest this same thing, then we list everything that has improved, and you dissappear for a year

Face it, it is never going to happen. TGC is mnot going to adapt its product to be an addon for another engine, it would need to be a complete rewrite from the ground up, theyre more likely to just abandon it.

I thought the other day I saw GG for $34.99 on steam. Was I imagining
something? Now it's on sale for $5.99 Hmmm hopefully they receive
DLC funds.

I think if GG pushed into the 64 bit realm, (and it was all basically vetted
to work as trouble free as possible), that would make a huge difference,
especially considering all these advancements we keep hearing about
"soon to come"! 32 bit and Unreal?! They would laugh.

Secondly, after GameGuru Studio comes out in 2020, if a new board for what
people would like to see implemented (voting board) is granted, there
we could discuss openly it's path to greatness...
((I'm sure people don't like this 'political' idea, but anyhow...)) people don't
want it but still want to see progress and offer suggestions... so which is it?

No need to get personal, if you have nothing to add to the conversation just move on.


Then you clearly don't understand what I proposing here and you don't know anything about Unreal Engine.


I am like Santa I come and go once a year so try to make the most out of this short amount of time
Joke aside, if you have nothing more to add, please move on and do not repeat yourself with capital letters.
I think we both made our point and we just need to agree on that we disagree.

Thanks.

it's possible it was a bundle of some sort.


asset pack? sure TGC could definitely put together a media asset pack or 2 to sell on the unity / unreal store etc but the original suggestion was

which to me says you want GG to become an add-on for unreal or sold as a full product on their store (is that even allowed?)... this is what i was saying unreal wouldn't need / accept - if GG gets to a point where it is "professional" enough for it to be an add-on etc then it would probably be at a stage where it no longer needs to be and can be standalone (as it is now) quite happily


all sounds great

This discussion is moot. It is irrelevant because Lee will never do this. Although he does listen to the peanut gallery, his final decision is his alone to make.

man i was joking...a bit of scarcasm never killed anyone



really hope nor.. the voting board was the ruin of gg development in the past years

Just leave GG as is, as it is evolving in to something great.

Thank you.
Pcs

The main problem is that the community never held TheGameCreators accountable.

Lack of updates and developer silence - fine
Promised features that never make it throught - fine
Lack of basic functionality that should be there many years ago - fine
Creating other massive projects, including ones that was created with competing engines, yet having other unfinished projects - fine
Developer telling consumers that the should use engine from company that uses money from bullied kids, goes against spirit what TGC are and also bribes developers with huge sack of cash to not release their games on Steam or GOG - fine
Continuously undercutting it's product value and even giving it away for free and then complaining that they don't have money - fine
Selling it for Russians for third of the cost (also applies for DLCs), despite of fact that majority of fake games came from there - fine
https://www.polygon.com/2019/5/7/18534431/fortnite-rare-default-skins-bullying-harassment
https://screenrant.com/epic-games-10-million-control-exclusive-remedy/
https://steamdb.info/search/?a=app&q=Gameguru


The community can do great things if united.
Remember:
Battlefield 4 broken launch
Batman Arkham Knight botched PC port
No Man's Sky broken promises
Star Wars Battlefront II gambling and "Pride and Accomplishment"
Blocking of overclocking Maxwell laptop GPUs
No repairability of Microsoft Surface Laptops

Community stood together and didn't tolerate any of those things., so all those have been mostly or fully fixed now. However, if the community ignored or even praised those things, they would never be fixed.
Battlefield 4 will be still unplayable
Arkham Knight will be laughting stock at this point
No Man's Sky will be still unfinished
Star Wars Battlefront II will be a Star Wars gambling game
Oveclocking of any NVIDIA GPUs won't be possible
Many modern laptops will be unrepairable


I want GameGuru to succeed like everyone else in this thread. I thought of improving low quality textures (GameGuru textures as Zaxtor99 says) of included assets and better normal maps, as many of them are low detail at this point. I thought about translating it to my native language. But there is no point in doing that if TGC don't want it's own creation to succeed too.

Before you write angry comments or try to stiffle me, think about that I wrote there.

Allow me to just chime in to clear something up about "GG Props". Now, most of the DLC props are perfectly fine as is, meaning they have the quality you could ask from the 3rd party members making them. I assure you, some of them rival DLC's you can get for unity and you'd be hard pressed finding a better completely functional weapon kit as GG's advanced weapon packs.
I also see that a lot of TGC DLC has been converted to PBR for those of you who are inclined to use that.
Now I reckon that a lot of your complaints are geared towards the free mega DLC... These are old props from various users and artists and have been made available to TGC as a sort of gift to the community. And they are of great quality for that and I always maintain that they are modular as the end user will have to adjust them to their project. That is a great learning experience because if we can take away anything from the many points raised here, some of them valid in my eyes, others misguided.... its that : Making games is never really easy.

To an extend some things about learning Unity where easier and more intuitive to me than learning GG and I've seen other people be similarly succesful with Unreal Engine 3 or 4. And as has been stated, these engines already have extensive game packs with pre-written scripts to choose from, especially Unity has packs that allow you to create entire role playing games with some packs they have.

However, at the end of the day, there will always be things you have to do. This is not a game, not a fully functional map editor for an existing fully developed video game and it will never have that kind of easy functionality and I would bet good money neither will have UE4 in the next half decade or so.

These old props you complain about might not be up to your liking but they are still, at their core, a remarkable wealth of resources for the end user. I retextured and remade quite a few of them in very little time and it was certainly easier than building them from scratch and having no base to work with. And my point here is that its a great opportunity to learn this yourself while still having some good "raw material" to get you started. If you want to make games basic modeling, texturing and scripting is something you will need to master eventually. You don't have to be a pro at any of it but in the end of the day less than half of a game is made in the editor.

Sure, would have been nice if they added shader maps to go with the old props but I rather have them for free as a bulk to let me root through them and salvage at my own leisure than being overhauled and sold off in bits for the people who seem to want to make games without all of the "making games" part to it. Mainly dragging and dropping something in the editor.

Now I am not purely defending TGC and have often voiced complaints about missing features that keep GG from really being something to write home about. My main gripe remains the sheer lack of a working lighting system which we almost had a few years ago. I know that there must be issued to implementing one, perhaps due to the forward rendering pipeline GG uses, perhaps the hacked in PBR support, this I do not know.
All other issues seem to be mostly ironed out or at least manageable by now from what I can tell which I applaud! A lot has happened in the last 2 years that might have gone under the radar of some who frequent the boards less often.



They clearly meant that people should check out other engines, any other engines they personally care for, while GG is being developed if they like. I don't think GG ever, in any way, directly advertised UE4.

@GubbyBlips:

No offense Gubby, and you might not have been around when we had the voting board, but it was the single most disastrous thing I have ever seen in software development. It is part of the reason why we have features where you just wonder why they bothered with it before they added core functionality. You see, the GG community has a few elder sages who have been around for a while in the scene and know a lot about 3d engines and how they work, however, it has many many more users who know no such thing and are just kids trying to make their break on steam.

So what happened is, people voted on flashy features they recognize in current gen games rather than core features. So an RPG questing system had significantly more votes than Performance or Rendering enhancments.

Allow me to explain it with a crude analogy: Imagine Toyota doing a similar poll and ending up with 80% of the votes going to a surround sound system and only 20% to actually having tires on the car. It was just like that.



-Wolf

Yeah, I hear ya. I see what you're saying, and no I wasn't around for that. I kinda
meant after these important core features are stabilized, then we can discuss
other features-- if there's a need for that? Scripting is the part I personally think
has a little more need for additions, while others are all for visual, which is good.

Really I'm wondering how the funding is going to occur. Surely this is a biggy when
it comes to software development? There was a voting pool, and there was a
funding pool, while now neither of them are here. We don't want to get into these
issues again, but whatever assistance we can give-- let's go!

No and they were never meant to be . Like any company its sales that bring in the funds which then further the Development. TGC's income is based on more than one product and usually to survive unfortunately means its the ones that give the biggest income that get the high priority.

I guess TGC could survive without GG but GG couldn't survive without TGC so making more sales in DLC's etc is to our benefit if it keeps a company comfortably afloat. Its not money grabbing as some may often comment its all about survival.

This far from being a disadvantage for me, gives me the opportunity to think out the box
Gameguru is for everyone, but especially for restless minds, minds that don't settle for "this can't be done with Gameguru," GG poses challenges every day, and this is what I love most.
I remember a movie in which the girl asks Harrinson Ford, after being shipwrecked on a desert island:



Edit: fixing quotes

I agree that GameGuru is not a level editor, but some of the normal maps are particularly bad, even on the stock assets.
I'm talking about Buildings/Iron Shed and Industrial/Gas Tank, and very possibly many more models.
Ofcourse proper dev will edit those and improve their quality, however, some devs didn't did that and even one dev made very lage maze like level out of the Gas Tank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmLyafSzmL0



Did you read my points?, Especilally about undercutting value. What did you did when that happened? What did you did when GameGuru was given for free, despite you saying, that will never happen? Did you hold TGC accountable?



And THIS is why GameGuru is what it is!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbCqJrhVdj8&t=185s
If the old FPSC could do this with just SM3 graphic cards, why GameGuru can't do all of this with much faster SM5 graphic cards?
But considering your mentality, you should instead create your own engine from scratch, where you could think out of box all time. GameGuru is sold as paid working product, not unfinished mess. You woudn't buy a car that has no seats and instead of holding the car manufactuer accountable you will just say that "I don't need to sit while riding it, so that's good".

I did indeed and many were off topic ..
However looking at your points it seems other users have bigger issues with Developers than us ..
GG had a free weekend so no biggie .. That was a promotion as many others on steam have done.
Personally if you have this big a beef then you should email Lee directly with your concerns.

I don't even want to start saying my 2 bits. Most likely it will turn into 20GB of text. TGC is small. If I understand anything about Lee, (hopefully I am not way off) he wants to remain this way! It is his baby! Lee, perhaps is committed to accept a good, comfortable living financially, (and have time for himself and family) rather than become the next --------, fill in the blanks. There is a HUGE personal price for that. Have you ever tried to work with a high end company like Unreal? And not necessarily for software only. When small companies get absorbed by large ones, they lose EVERYTHING!
I for myself will support TGC until I can no longer.
Some of you, commented the fact that (due to lack of serious documentation) a lot of GG is difficult to work with.
Perhaps, some of this (speaking for myself) is part of GG charm and challenge. I welcome it. I am not nearly as good as some of you, but I am getting better and enjoy the learning.
Further more, (again speaking for myself) I have no notion of "making money" with GG. I just approach GG as a HOBBY and the challenges it provides. Perhaps there are others like you who accept GG this way.
I see a good healthy community here and I am happy to be a small part of it!
Up and beyond, no one is forcing anybody to be here!
Cheers!

If the community said either to to Lee that he should stop MyWorld before it lauches or that they leave, then he will have no choice.
And considering that MyWorld was developed by Ravey, former member of GameGuru dev team, it was developed by TGC competing engine, was a monumental failure and it's now abandoned by him that would made sence. GameGuru will be at much better shape if he never left.
You can clearly see user respones in that thread
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/216901?page=1



Except all those software/games had two thight common
1) They are "Live Services", they depend on microtransactions and often they can't be played offline (Payday 2, For Honor, Steep). These games will sustain itself even when they will become Free 2 Play.
2) They are finished products with very little to no updates comming, so they are given away as is (often to promote newer games, for example Amnesias, Limbo, Outlast...)
I won't be suprised that the 2020 update will be paid one, considering that AppGameKit was also given away and now there is AGK Studio.



I did that in March.

@ Unknown Nomad Studio
Gameguru has nothing to do with a car, in Gameguru you only have to manufacture 1 car and sell millions of times the same car, in real life you would have to manufacture millions of cars to do the same.

I bought a product in development and accepted the fine print before buying it, and decided to go to the end, I learned how little I know about video games thanks to him, he and all the companions of this wonderful forum have been my teachers, and I I hope it stays that way.
I decided to believe in Gameguru, you do what you want.

And if with the video you mean the rain outside or behind the windows, this is perfectly achievable in Gameguru, I have done it myself many times, you know, thinking out the box.

You misunderstood me, the comparison it's like this
You go to car shop and pledge to your perfect car. They show how great it will be. And it was car of your dreams. Then then the car is released at fully functional one, but it's missing windows, seatbelts and it has a rusty spike on steering wheel. You will still like it, but you realize it's limitations. Yet the same company, that created that broken car launches multiple better cars, that you can drive safely. And instead of fixing the car, that you bought, they tell you that you should use different car.



I also did that, however, instead of be fully commited to make it great and stick with they took manpower from it and launched multiple massive projects with those, that left.
Now you will say "Muh money", yet they sold GameGuru for a buck a piece in Humble Bundle in 2016, so they apparently had alot of it.



You probably mean the first video. Yes, that game was made with GameGuru in 2015.
However, you probably never saw the second one, the Xploid Mod 3.0.

I have nothing against those people who love GameGuru for what it is.
For someone new to the world of game making and want to make an FPS, GameGuru provide lots of features to play with and lot of fun.

However it seems to me most of you missing the point and this topic going off-road. Let's put aside for a moment the fact GameGuru did not delivered everything what promised 7 years ago. It is not the point now.

Let's focus on the subject of this topic which is the future and consider that if we would have a complete FPS asset pack for Unreal in one package including the FPS engine and assets, everything that GameGuru has to offer, It would have all the benefits that you all love for hobby or not and more that only Unreal has to offer:

3D widgets,
vehicles,
destructible environments,
brushes and mesh manipulation,
better water shaders
better lighting and shadows
cross platform export including AR, VR and game consoles
hair and cloth simulation
and many more....

The workflow would be as follow:

1. Create an empty project in Unreal Engine
2. Import the GameGuru asset pack, 1 click
3. Change Game Mode in project settings to "GameGuru" 1 click
4. Create a terrain if you need one with the mouse and brushes
5. Add some trees, grass, water, river, waterfalls, roads using the terrain tools
6. Add some enemies, weapons, pickups, buildings, doors, walls with drag and drop
7. Create custom buildings and 3D geometry with brushes and mesh manipulation tools.
8. Change the skybox
9. Add some lights
10. Press play to preview and play the FPS game just like in GameGuru
11. Press build to create stand alone executable just like in GameGuru

That's it. So if any of you is worried about the workflow would be more complicated in Unreal, it would be not. It would be just as easy and fun as GameGuru but it would offer many more than GameGuru could ever offer.

So in order to keep this topic relevant, I would like to suggest those of you who prefer not to make GameGuru an asset pack please share some details why and something more specific than you are happy with GameGuru.

To make it simple, how about if everyone would answer the following question.

If there would be a complete FPS package for Unreal that offer everything that GameGuru has to offer, why would you not choose the Unreal version?

If you are about to answer because you love GameGuru and that's it, I repeat, the Unreal version would offer everything that GameGuru has to offer so why GameGuru and not Unreal?

In case you are about to answer Unreal is not free...etc
As I mentioned before, if you choose to publish your game in the Epic Game Store, Unreal is 100% free so you only need to pay for the FPS asset pack and if you publish on Steam or elsewhere, you need to pay only 5% royalty every quarter if you made $3k or more which in my opinion extremely friendly considering everything Unreal has to offer and it is also free if you make less than $3k.

If you are about to answer Unreal is used by professionals, big studios, it is not a reason. Unreal is available to anyone not only to professionals and studios so why would you not use it?

If you are about to answer it would be a bad business for TGC, why?
TGC would make money by selling the pack with a custom EULA restrict how you can use the pack and could sell even more additional packs just like now. Could have a base product that include the FPS engine and some base assets just like GameGuru itself and could sell additional packs with more assets just like the DLC's now even packs that add additional features. Could be for example sell vehicles as additional pack, survival mechanics as additional pack, crafting, mining, inventory as additional pack, dialogue system as additional pack, swimming as additional pack, flying as additional pack..etc that we need to buy and import. How would that be financially worst position for TGC than developing their own independent engine?

If you are about to answer, TGC could do all the above I mentioned for their own stand alone engine, no TGC do not have the money and man power to do all that plus develop their own engine. With using Unreal, TGC don't need to develop their own engine which is a lot of money and time and they could focus only on implementing the game mechanics.

Let's have a proper discussion about the possibility to have a complete FPS package for Unreal instead of a stand alone engine. If you think it is not a good idea and you are against it and you don't want to use Unreal, please share some valid reasons why.

Thanks.

That was never purposed by TGC and i don't think it was ever an expectation of the customers? Game Guru (or FPSC Reloaded) was always billed as a intro 3D game engine with a professional visual appeal, but not something AAA at its core.

I use the engine behind Fallout 3 and I can say that that is virtually an impossible task to compete with as it has many years behind it. Its even the seem engine since Morrowind, just updated every year (by many many programmers). The scope on that one is too large and to this day now has over 1000 people behind it and millions of dollars of backing to keep in in perceptual development.

It is absolutely the point ....you obviously agree as you suggest getting around it by changing the road map to bypass all the things missing or broken in GameGuru after all this time.

Actually Unreal is far more complicated than this, materials,lighting,post processing etc I have no idea how you would propose to make these 'simpler' than they are, saying 'click and done' doesn't really suggest 'how' this would be done.

The core engine is TGC domain, most all the DLC packs are commisioned by TGC they do not create these themselves and the Artists who do could easily sell these assets themselves on other Stores without a middle man.

If it were possible to create an 'easy to use' plug in for Unreal I think someone would have done it by now The nearest you are going to get with this are already in existence... 'Blueprints'.

Seriously? you see this as a reason to drop the product and do an 'ease of use' wrapper for Unreal? You might have more success jumping over to Unreal forums and ask for it. If TGC don't have the manpower or funding to complete the project they should work out a better business model and time management before releasing for sale.
I hate to break it to you but last time TGC changed the road map and the product name with 'all deals are off' it left something of a sour taste in my mouth that lingers to this day and I am not the only one.

@Unknown Nomad Studio
Not being funny but for someone so passionate about " us " stopping My world I struggled to find any comments from yourself in that thread ? In fact there were non I could find..

You sure your not here just to stir the pot a little bit … Perhaps, Just maybe ..
Its all what we should have done but no real effort on your part that I can find ..

@Zigi: An easy FPS kit for UE4 is in no way a bad idea, I just know that its never going to come from TGC, its just not how they roll and you've been around here long enough to know this as well.

When I heard about Axis Game Factory almost a year ago, I thought-- hmmm...
that would be a great thing if GG and them could combine. So I thought TGC
should acquire Axis Game Factory https://www.axisgamefactory.com/
... maybe there is something in there that along with GG would make for a rather
great allied unit.

What I've heard about AGF is that they did a similar thing with their products
as Zigi is proposing for GG+ Unreal, except with Unity. To make a long story short,
the deal fell through or Unity changed some policy of theirs, and now AGF is a
defunct product. Sure you can still run and operate it, but it's designed (as far as
I know), for being compiled in Unity for standalone, therefore it's no good as their
agreement is dead now. (I guess there's no other stand-alone procedure!?)
Also, perhaps there's no scripting or coding that come with AGF, so therefore
without Unity, again it's double dead. ((Unless something has changed))

AGF is pretty interesting looking, has many modules, interesting terrain creation, etc
I'm just telling a story here, no need to worry that I am trying to undermine GG,
but still if GG (TGC) could acquire AGF for a few pennies!! Haha, nice - maybe...

Actually many of the models (and yes there are some that have issues) are perfectly good, and if you put them in other, more refined engines look pretty darned good, it's GameGuru that has issues with normals, always has, and seems it always will, it seems to wash out and flatten the normals in direct sun, and over exaggerate them and make them very cartoon like in direct shadow.

@GubbyBlips
AGF was completely created in Unity … Its basically an easy build plugin for Unity.
Nothing there of any benefit for TGC except being under a Unity Licence.

I do hold TGC accountable:
I could improve stock GameGuru models and possibly release them as a separate pack free there - but there is no point in doing that
I could translate GameGuru to a different language - again, no point
I could extend the sample level "Get to the River" - again no point
And last, but not the least - I could buy more DLC asset packs on Steam - and again, there is no point
Why I should improve something that doesn't want to even attempt at being usable?



Amen!



FPS Creator Reloaded?

Actually you couldn't without being banned .. You cannot distribute Stock content freely and openly.

It is totally pointless to argue about this for one because it doesn't change our current position and second, I was there when Lee was talking about all the possibilities. It is true it was never official, it was only dev talk at the time when TGC was asking for our help to back the development so when you ask for help and talking about AAA staff, it is pretty much means you are about to do AAA staff. But I really don't want to get in to this because totally pointless.


But on the surface it can be that simple as I have described. Of course if you want to dig deep you need to get your hands dirty but for those who love drag 'n drop and tweak options only and they are worried about complexity, it is totally possible to replicate the simplicity of GameGuru in Unreal with Game Modes and Blueprint assets and even simplify the coding part by implement easy to use Blueprint functions for us who would want to go below the surface.


TGC can be the first, great opportunity for them if they realise the potential.
I would do it my self, but I don't have money for artists. I don't have money for coders. I don't have the skills to implement all the game mechanics from scratch and I don't have time. Since TGC already focusing on "easy" game making solutions in full time, and they have the resources and a user base, it would make sense to me if they were doing this.


What is important to realise here is that GameGuru can't get more cheaper than this except make it completely free and try to make money elsewhere but where? Lee also told once on the forum he has no intention making GameGuru free. Making it more expensive makes no sense because the engine is simply not good enough it is the worst case scenario. You have a not so good product so you can't ask for more money but you don't have money to make it better. I would be happy to see TGC figure this out but after 7 years I don't think they can.

I believe they are hoping, adding VR to GameGuru going to be a huge thing, going to make GameGuru the most accessible and most simple VR engine but I don't personally believe it is going to work. GameGuru is still struggling with performance even after 7 years, it is not going to be known as the most simple VR engine but instead it is going to be famous for being the worst VR engine and personally I am also not interested in VR and can't care less for this addition.


What I'm trying to say is let's at least try to have a discussion about why would you not use Unreal if there was an FPS pack that has everything to offer that GameGuru has including the easy drag 'n drop workflow.

The only thing I heard so far is empty excuses coming from ignorance and scepticism. Not a single valid reason so far.
I mean, if nobody support the idea and TGC is truly not interested, fine I'm not going to insist, I did what I could to open your eyes.
It is up to you and TGC now to consider the possibility and have a proper discussion with valid reasons, pros and cons or continue to ignore the facts and reality and pretend GameGuru is good as is and TGC can pull this off.

Whatever the decision is going to be for the next 12 months, I be back next year and try again

I ment as a free Steam DLC, with TGC approval, for GameGuru owners only. Similiar to the Classics pack.
Ofcourse uploading it here, or any other site would lead to me banned, as these are not my own.


Imagine VR game with simple 2D decals as partices, where lights leaks throught walls and other solid objects and it runs at 30 FPS. Now that would be one stomach wrenching experience.


I posted similiar thread, three years ago. And it didn't make it throught. You can check it.
And yes, I have my eyes opened since that. I even wanted to gave GameGuru a positive review, if the team will keep consistently improving it. But that will not happen.

That's exactly what i was saying, if you can create an environment similar to gameguru in unreal using built in features and add-ons that already exist, then what would the point be of porting gameguru to be an add-on for unreal? It would just become one of the countless packages sitting gathering dust on the unreal store, it would completely kill gameguru.

have you actually used any of the other engines? i mean seriously taken the time to learn them as you would need to also do with GG?
they already have ways to do the stuff you can do in GG and most are just as easy if not easier - it's just a case of learning.
for unity you can literally open the hub manager -> click "learn" -> click "fps minigame" -> click download / open -> you have a basic fps game just the same as opening a map in GG but with more assets on the map -> press play and run around your game killing enemies -> job done and you only need to do that once, if you save it as your own map you simply load that next time
and if you don't like the theme you just delete the assets and drag and drop your own files in the project - no need for any importer or to close / restart etc, it all updates in seconds... you could recreate a default GG scene in a matter of minutes
(edit; i don't want to seem like i'm advertising for other engines but i wanted to show how simple it is so in fact i just did just that to prove it - i made this in 15 mins *including download and set up times in that*)
note that this is all pre-included assets, i did no editing or coding, just added some prefabs from the demo to the scene and you can already sprint, jump, jetpack, change weapon, heal etc... in short - anything you can do in GG already set up and working as soon as you open the demo
https://youtu.be/o3JHri9HCfA
as already mentioned, unreal has similar packs or blueprints too
GG is not ground breaking or unique in any way except maybe it looks easier to use because has a minimalist editor because it has far less features than most other engines so doesn't need as many buttons... you still need to rely on ready made assets or have some coding/model making knowledge to do anything in any engine

we all enjoy using GG and want to see it improve but trying to recreate it at this point is just a waste of time

Yes, there are solutions, add-on, packs available but not everything and they are not compatible out of the box.
For example, you can maybe buy an FPS add-on that gives you a player to move around, some AI and weapons but it is basically nothing but an empty shell. So then you can find doors, characters, weapons in the store for sure but once you drag and drop them in to the game and press play, nothing is going to happen. You can not open the door or close the door, can not pickup the weapon and fire , you can not damage the character and the character can not damage you. It may going to walk around and do it thing but it is going to totally ignore you. So if you want all this to work together you need to go below the surface and hook them up, but then you need to deal with the code of somebody else which can be a nightmare even if you are super experienced and in case an add-on was written in C++ and not Blueprint, that means a whole new level of difficulty.

So what a "GameGuru" package could offer is something that "just works". Select player start location, drop the ammo in, drop the health pack in, the enemy, a win zone and press play and see it all works together just like in GameGuru and if you want to go below the surface and make your own things, it could offer easy to use functions for manipulating the AI the weapon, the projectile with ease without headache. This is what GameGuru could offer for Unreal and nobody have done this so far because nobody would think people would use something like this but GameGuru and TGC is the evidence there is a whole lot of people interested in easy drag 'n drop game making. I hope it helps.


Yes, I am familiar with many engines and programming languages and I can do a lot on my own, there is only 1 thing I am struggling with and that is mathematics which holds me back from being able to implement lots of things in other engines that GameGuru already has to offer. It is also true for Unreal, it can also do a lot without the need to apply any mathematics but not everything, missing lot of tings that GameGuru has to offer and GameGuru missing a lot that Unreal has to offer.

Seriously GameGuru and Unreal combined could be a big deal who knows maybe Epic would end up buying GameGuru and include out of the box or something. But I guess nobody believe in this so, I don't insist this idea any more. I have told everything I had to say. It is up to all of you and Lee to make this decision.


Currently Unity would be the best solution for me but I don't personally like the direction it is going. It is forcing you to buy a very expensive license by applying more and more limitation on the free version while they clearly trying to become a subscription based service. I also like Unreal better, I think it is a better engine from all possible angles at least for making desktop, console and VR games. Unity maybe better for mobile and web.

I believe that one of the great challenges of GG is to professionalize and at the same time maintain that condition of easy game maker.
It's as much as getting a Unity / UE4 but with the ease of work that GG offers.
It is twice as much work and twice as many resources, and a colossal effort for such a small team, and with such scarce funds, I personally hope that one day we can get something that looks like it, until then I will continue to learn things related to something I'm passionate, and in the best school I've ever met.
I only say why I am using GG, personally I cannot add reasons about something I don't know how it works, the only thing I know is that it requires a lot of knowledge, time, resources, etc. to get something that I get here in seconds, and that gives me the opportunity to devote myself to what I like most, try to go beyond the limits, since the blueprint and all that would be fine to learn, but I know I would not settle for that and I know that I would quickly feel frustrated at not being able to do what I want and for which I would need a lot of time / money / knowledge etc.

Here I have freedom to let my imagination fly, develop my creativity, I don't have to worry about the details since GG takes care of that.
I am sure that a mallet and a chisel in my hands would not serve absolutely nothing, but in the hands of Michelangelo, uhmmmm my god.