... please take a few minutes out of your day to read what I have to say.

I am writing this as a bit of a guide of what you have to take into account before you publish your project to steam. There are a few points I would like to mention, feel free to disagree with me, after all I am not here to tell you what to do. All I want to accomplish here is share some of the common pitfalls developers, and GG users in particular, face when releasing on that platform. Now this is generally valid for putting a game up for sale anywhere, but it seems that people always aim for Steam so I focus on that.

Now, I don't have any commercial games out nor do I intend to develop one in the future but I have over a decade of experience in the indie scene and have seen every FPSC / GG game page on steam and thus have a pretty good intuition on how people react to certain things.

I'm writing this because Duchenkuke recently revealed his current project on Steam and not only is it a decent GG project on Steam, which is something about as rare as a golden tiger, but it also has a pretty good store page and description.

Now some things I mention might seem a bit condescending or far fetched, but trust me, everything I reference on here has actually happened.

Before I get into my list, you first must be aware of what releasing a commercial game on steam means. Its fundamentaly different to releasing a free game on itch.io or indie.db in that you now no longer present a hobby creation / an artwork to somewhat like minded people but a product to the general public. Once there is a price tag on it, everything changes.
Steam also has a lot of traffic, lots of folks from different walks of life and your first game on steam will be ... well, there is no second chance for a first impression! If your game first game is terrible, that will forever be associated with your name and its hard to recover from that. Now we are indie developers, hobbyists...so some downsides are to be expected but a lot of content on Steam, especially stuff made in GG is just plain insulting.
Also if you release something in early access and its borderline unplayable, be aware that few people can be bothered to return after you updated it. Generally speaking, you should look at your creation objectively and ask yourself: "Is this engaging to another person? Is it fun? Does it have something special about it to get someone to play it rather than one of the thousands other games out there with bigger budgets, better tech, better graphics, smoother game play and more content? Would I buy this myself?" All good things to at least think about it before you put something on the market.
There seem to be a new breed of developers that seem to be convinced that something is worth money because they, themselves spent time and effort on it. So naturally they should be paid for that, regardless of outcome. Then you have people who are just getting started and have the audacity to find that their first steps in a 3d editor should not only be available to everyone but should also come with a price tag.

Now if you are reading these lines, its save to say that you are not one of these people...simply because I don't think that they do a lot of ...err...reading.



* 1: Performance and Stability!

The first thing you need to be absolutely sure of is that your game actually runs...at least for most players. You can do this by testing it on various systems and sending it to your friends or this community first. Frequent run time errors, crashes during loading sequences and in-game glitches/missing content are a kiss of death for your games success. You also need to consider performance. How does the game run on a mid-range gaming rig? You need to get at least 30 FPS for your game to be accepted. The truth is, no one will enjoy even the most custom and lofty game play if it clunks along at 15 fps. Trust me, poor performance are the very first thing reviews will mention if you don't put in the work here. LINK to a tutorial about basic optimization here.

It is unfortunate that GG does not come with a decent options menu. The lack of detailed graphics settings and the lack of an ability to choose resolution is often lamented.

* 2: If you blink, you'll miss it!

Regardless of how long it took you to finish your game. If the player can play through it in 20 minutes or less and you ask 5 bucks for the experience, there is a problem. Now I am aware how hard it is to get good game time...but hey, you want to SELL your game so you better deliver. You should aim for at least 1 hour of game play (not including loading screens) preferably more.
Just imagine yourself paying for a game, having rather long loading times only for then having about 5 minutes of game play per level.
Total game play amounting to 20 minutes for 4 levels. You'd have to have absolutely riveting features to justify that.

* 3: Be honest about your game.

This is a point that I find of uttmost importance and something that bothers me personally. The rampant dishonesty you see in project descriptions on steam can go so far that it borders on fraud.
You'll see bare bones, stock content game guru games with half a dozen maps, a few zombies within these maps and maybe one or 2 notes to read described something like "Dive into a deep, well written and engaging story filled with unique characters and exciting game play" "Stunning visuals" "hours of fun". Now I always have to chuckle at descriptions like this when its obviously not even remotely in the game but your customers will not.
I could also go on a tangent here talking about how generic games obviously inspired by resident evil or fallout are a dime a dozen in the indie sphere and usually in no way deep, well written, engaging or unique.
So don't advertise your game like its the next fallout! Your customers will find out the truth once they hit the play button and will feel cheated even if your game is somewhat decent. Instead: Be honest, describe your games strengths!
Point out the strengths and features that make your game good. Describe the game play that the player will really encounter and tell them what really is unique or engaging about your game. If you find that your game doesn't really have anything these adjectives apply to at all... well then you might not want to sell it yet.
You can even go as far as openly say that you are just a hobbyist, or a beginner. People usually respect that. Now, taking this into consideration you also need to know an ancient rule of game development in general: Never shine a spotlight on a turd. Now I often riff on the flaws when I release a new game, but I also don't sell them. Don't draw too much attention to the downsides of your game either!
Now, I've seen some people making truly teeth grindingly atrocious GG games bribing people to leave them some good reviews because they know their games are horrendous. I know that some of these tactics are effective just...please don't be that guy. Its dishonorable.

* The Price is Nice

I understand that some people only gotten into this having profit in mind. While I was never able to enjoy any type of art form if I make money off of it, this is a big draw for many folks and I can't really blame 'em.
So, to continuously make money: Put a fair price on your game. Its a free market, so you can do what you want but 8 bucks for an early access GG title is generally a bad idea. Try to remain within the 4 to 6 Dollars a pop price range and you won't see complaints. Its also the type of money many people are willing to dish out on an impulse buy.

* Consider networking with the community

Most low quality GG games on steam come from people that are not an active part of this community. I find that the people on here are generally helpful and knowledgeable when it comes to making games and their feedback might help you elevate your game to higher levels. The community here also tends to provide pretty good feedback on wether something is ready to be sold or not. All parents exaggerate the achievements of their offspring and you might look at your game in a similar way. You spent a lot of time and energy on it and might see things in it that aren't there... so feedback from complete strangers is valuable. As long as you can differenciate between haters and people with good constructive criticism I recently saw a youtube video of someone lamenting how nobody cared for his (rather terrible) game after him working on it for an extended period of time. He was the type that was mostly talking about how his game would have been better if GG was better and yet the missing features he brought up where all things I have seen members of this community pull off. So talking to the people that use the same software as you do might help you overcome some road blocks fairly easily. Teamwork is very important, said the giant CGI dinosaur!

* Make sure you at least mastered the basics before you charge!

We all got started somehow but if you think a game with stock assets, dragged and dropped together without clear art direction will do well on steam... well it won't. Not only will it not do well but your efforts will also be branded an asset flip! Best practice is making a few simpler games, smaller in scope, before you tackle a commercial project. Learn re-texturing to maintain a consistent art style throughout your game. Mixing and matching store assets by many different artists with different styles and abilities seldomly works! You will then also be able to optimize your props as many are sold with rather high-res textures that might cause you issues in the final build. Learn basic modeling... a lot can do once you can combine meshes, make basic architectural props and add/remove parts to animated models. You will have way more possibilities and people tend to notice these things. You don't need to be a master coder to make a decent game but make sure that you are at least able to read and understand what a script does and tweak values. There is so much you can do with basic images showing on screen alone...

* Is it even legal?

The internet is full of amazing game related resources. Free scripts, models, textures, music,sound. Naturally a lot of these things are ripped directly from other games. Now, if you release free games or if you are modding something, its not the end of the world but if you have content like this in your game, wether intentional or accidental, you might even end up in court or at least have your game taken down! Because a lawsuit isn't cheap, you better double check that you own the rights to every prop you use, every sound you play and every image you put into your menu screens. Also be vigilant if you use free packs! I've downloaded an extensive prop pack for FPSC once only to find out way later in life that all those models where actually ripped from Deus Ex and Soldier of Fortune I also released a Horror game later only to read in the comments that the free horror sound effects I downloaded where actually ripped from older resident evil games. Alas! Just something to be aware of

* Early Access but only if its at least a beta.

Hold back on releasing your game until its at least somewhat finished. A beta state would be quite right for a public early access. If your game has promise but needs some touching up its ready for early access. Players aren't stupid and can see potential. However, if its just plain unfinished in every conceivable way and you have already cornered yourself by promising changes that you might not yet know how to implement you just make a bad impression. You can get valuable player feedback by releasing something early ...but not TOO early

Thank you for reading! Now I have written this to spare people grief, despite the rather negative tone this has in places because I have seen how crushed a lot of young devs felt after they released something on steam, only for it to be panned. This post here is my ditch effort to kind of prevent this happening to future developers on here.

interesting read, and very wise and true words written there

Dave

Thank you - great read.

Cheers.

Well............
Well...................

And hrmmm.....

It's one thing to throw something together in 2 days, and call it something you think you should sell anywhere, and it's quite another to try to do anything and everything in your disposal (which varies greatly by user), but in spite of what you have tried, the GG system has hampered your efforts because it's not created for flexible game creativity. (( of course you can disagree )). I am currently trying to get a game placed into a commercial site (Steam is the premier portal to do so), and this game is 3rd person, and I need to insert additional animations into the stock soldier character, and I have been practicing scripting (little bits here and there for the past year), but the blockades that must come down, the information walls that must be demolished, the passages opened to allow progress for more flexibility are many (( I certainly appreciate all the work that has gone into GG before I arrived, and most certainly have observed all the additions and tweaks recently )), so as nobody hopefully gets too offended -- your work is acknowledged! Does it sound so? Well, your work is quite remarkable. But anyhow, I have enjoyed scripting in lua for GG, but it feels like in vain when my user ignorance is greater than my capacity to push through the barriers. And the point is? Would I have accomplished more in a different engine? That I don't know. I really don't want to start over in another coding language, but maybe that would be beneficial for the long term? What now? I wanted to get a game posted this past summer. Well- nope. Then for Halloween- naw, not that important. Mostly I wanted to get it out for a Christmas version. Nada. Anyhow. Let's see what other think? I just want to see, if possible, GG expand beyond the FPS alley and a little bit broader. Surely the techniques to do some of these things are there, but where is the official documentation?!

Fantastic advice as ever from The Wise Wolf. Thanks.

not true for everyone - i can honestly say i've played some amazing and some terrible games and don't take any notice who made them..(do people even read credits? ) if you judge a game based purely on who made it or which engine it was made in etc then it's your own fault if you miss out on a classic.
i wouldn't buy a game simply because it was made by my favourite developers or even just because it was in my favourite series of games -though yes it would make me at least check it out so it does help i don't think i've got 2 games from the same indie dev
i think the problem is not that the game is "terrible" - if you're trying or willing to grow and change with feedback a lot can be forgiven (just look at 'no man's sky, it was absolutely destroyed when it was released but it's now getting good reviews) - the problem is with people who are simply trying to make a quick profit for no effort

Wise words, my friend.

AE

Thanks Wolf
This was a great post.
It cooled my mind, of course.
But I'm always hot and trying.
You mentioned some very good points.
Because I wanted to publish my game on Steam.
The important thing is to be honest and not lie to people
I am member of the people and I hate the lies.
Important: We need to be honest on the release page
Then people will decide whether to buy your game product or not.
And if they buy they are conscious and do not feel deceived.
This would be good for TGC and GAMEGURU too
It would be great to send people and developers feedback to the GAMEGURU team
Maybe it will help develop the game engine.
For example:
Describe in the steam description page for people:
* This is a GAMEGURU game or project
* Post images and videos of the game on the release page
* This game has either used the assets of this engine or new assets!
* We will update this game with new versions of this engine
* We are a small studio with one person or two teams
* We may build later versions of this game with other engines if possible
* This is our first studio game
Or other options...
Of course you can advertise on social networks because it will be a business.
Then I think people will respect your honesty and decide whether to buy.
For the price right now, I think less than $ 8 would be appropriate.
Of course, it depends on the volume, time and quality of your work.

I've seen some games of the Visual Novel Maker engine in the steam.
Some game developers have honestly stated that the engine was used.
And they have received positive results from customers.
Of course it is a good engine but not like unity and ...

I also saw in the post on the S2ENGINE HD sales page in Steam:
(people have full and easy access to AAA development.
IDEAL FOR WHO WANTS TO PUBLISH GAMES ON STEAM
Since S2ENGINE is highly optimized for running on PC Windows systems, it is ideal if you want to use it for developing your AAA-quality game on Steam.)
Of course, if the GAMEGURU team and TGC want to use these titles on their sales page, they should try harder.
In this case, the game developers will have no problem with this engine.
Can the GAMEGURU team pay special attention to this issue?

But for now:
GAMEGURU game developers can also sell their games in the form or template of GAMEGURU games.
or earn money in the form of a GAMEGURU project or an asset.
This is very good and not bad.
Don't be embarrassed to say it's a GAMEGURU good game.
Maybe your artistic pride.
Maybe you can make money in this artistic way.

Also I'm co-creating the project in GAMEGURU
And I'm learning about Unity engines and S2ENGINE and I think it's a good way.
But your tips were very helpful
Because it was before my game was released
And I will use it and see the results of the people
Then to the GAMEGURU team I will reflect people's opinions
Of course I don't know what will happen
Maybe no one will play my game!
Maybe my game is a very bad game and has nothing connection to do with the GAMEGURU team.
But I'll post what belongs to the GAMEGURU team and engine.
One recommendation:
Don't sell your artwork for free.
Because the artwork is valuable.
I urge all developers and artists of GAMEGURU Games to think and make good games and sell their games.
Value your work with GAMEGURU and neutralize bad words.
Maybe one day GAMEGURU will become a great art software.
Then those who say bad things are ashamed.
Forgive me.
These are just my comments.
I don't live in the UK and I don't know much English language.
But I don't lose hope for better days.
Good luck.

This is my game post:
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/221292

@SHAHIN3D
Erm ...you realise having multiple accounts is bannable right

He said he was co-creating it, so I'm guessing his colleague posted the WIP thread, no?



The sad truth is that the small subset of Game Guru developers happy to release zero-effort asset flips to bait YouTube reviewers have ruined it for the rest of us. Game Guru's name has been tarnished because of it, probably irreparably. So mentioning your game is made in Game Guru is likely to turn many potential customers off. That, or they will immediately have low expectations going in.

All I'm saying is I wouldn't advertise any game I intended to sell as a Game Guru game - it might taint expectations and I would prefer my games to be judged on their own artistic merit and entertainment value. Having said that, I wouldn't hide the fact it was made in Game Guru game if a customer or reviewer asked me directly.

AE

Could be which is why we are waiting. Or there could be other reasons

I will be and happy to do so ..
If you don't have confidence in your game you really shouldn't release it in the first place.
If rubbish ones still sell then a few good ones would should give GG a new outlook.

I'm totally with ya Wolf. Great lesson for every one!

Hi
This post was created by my friend and colleague.
I have no fears or problems.
If you have a problem I can move it to my own post (SHAHIN3D).
He lives in London and resides in England.
We work through a network remotely.
If you have a problem with this method.
We can leave you and work our way.
I said to be honest.
The purpose here is to explain the problems and how to resolve those problems.
You should do your best to fix GameGuru problems.
Not that a studio has multiple accounts!
OK
I'll tell my friend to add some pictures of the game to his post.
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/221292
Thanks

@synchro it's not a matter of whether we have faith in our games, it's about the fact that due to shoddy asset flip junk games and blunt negative YouTube personality reporting, the PUBLIC have no faith in games made by Gameguru.

I personally if I ever make a game in this engine will completely remove every reference to gameguru and will use only my own models and media, that way if it's good and it gets good revues I can come out and say "haha screw you I made it with gameguru suckers".

It's not that, it's just I would want my game to be judged purely on its own merit rather than lumped in with the likes of Asset Flip Simulator and Castle Griffensteed. I just wonder if advertising your game as a Game Guru project would drive away more potential customers than it would entice in. There's a small group of us here on the forums who I'm sure would buy each other's games BECAUSE they were made in Game Guru and we want to see what the engine can do and support each other, but on Steam the public are far less forgiving.

AE

Wolf, thanks for sharing your experience and advice. Some good information!

Its all down to what you think your best strategy is.
Being in business most of my working life I have learnt being upfront from the beginning is the way to go because if your not it usually comes back and bites you in the backside later

A Good GameGuru game like Duch's would probably get more publicity and sales ( simply out of curiosity ) than an obscure game off the radar... If your games good enough and you know how then use the well known bad reputation to your advantage
Whats the old saying " Any Publicity is good Publicity

LOL awkward !!
My game will always be a Beta game … Its based on testing a Beta program

If I made a game I would also try to use only my models, but sooner or later I will end up using GG features.
Anyway I do not worry about this fact, however I would leave the "video game made with GameGuru" for the credits; in this way the player has 2 elements of judgment, the game he has played and the detriment that has been made with GameGuru.
I am sure that if the player is a sensible person, he will appreciate the game for what it is, and if the player is not, then I am not interested as a consumer, therefore I am not worried either.

Unfortunately, needing money urgently for whatever reason is something that nobody can avoid; but if you have to make a game under these circumstances and finalize it / put it on sale as soon as possible, I don't think it helps much to design a good game.

I agree that good / bad publicity can help the sale of the game, but I would not like to base the success / failure of the game only on this factor.

I personally do not plan to allow a game made by me to break my routine, my quiet life, with a sea of ​​interviews, radio, TV, magazines, etc.

The only thing that really interests me is what there is from the moment I start designing the game until I can finish it, in other words I enjoy the process.
Too old to look for the fame and debauchery that this entails, I want to continue enjoying a quiet life and the pleasure of modeling / designing a video game, or a 3d model for the store. imho.

@ Wolf
Useful info mate, ty 4 sharing.
What's about some tips about 3º party animations, such as mixamo ones?

@SHAHIN3D
That's ok no worries ..

Hey! Thanks for reading and I am happy to see this struck a cord with you guys. I halway expected this not to be read as, once again, I failed to be brief.

Now I see that there is some debate on wether or not its wise to directly state that a game has been made with GG. I think thats up to the user! I rarely see games advertised with "created with id-tech 4" "designed in unreal engine 4" right in the store description.
However I did see some users try to deliberately lie about having a custom engine when, in fact, it was vanilla FPSC, that I would discourage.

@GubbyBlips: I understand your frustration! As for your question, its hard to give you a definitive answer as I don't quite know what you are capable of and what you want to accomplish . So just to put it out there: Try another engine and see if its for you! I recommend unity. Its free to use and there are a lot of plugins that allow you to avoid getting too deep into coding. If its not for you and you prefer GG, then you know for sure. I always think that if you really want to do something its better to have tried and failed... so forth

@3COM

I honestly don't know. You best check the license agreement. If its royalty free, go for it!



Haha, yes, I understand that very well. Sure, I had a certain sense of pride back when one of my games was in some magazines and when I had a lot of feedback from players all around the world but I don't think that this will happen again in today's market. My games now are only appealing to folks who are into zero-budget indie jank and hey! I have a small audience and they enjoy my output and that is all I really want. I did some freelancing a few years ago as a level and 3d artist and I also had a few commissioned paintings but... to be honest, whenever money was involved and a customer/creator relationship it really stressed me and I seized to enjoy what I was doing.

So I also don't look for selling a game anytime soon... the sense of fame and validation some people seek from it, well I suppose I am past that age as well. I know a few folks who have games for sale out there, forums where they interact with their players, social media outlets and I see why that excites them but it wouldn't be for me.

I maintain that I would be interested in being a level designer or general art director for a project that really interests me, so I keep that option open on my art station gallery...but I don't really expect anyone to ever contact me.

Thank you for the post, Wolf . I agree with many of your thoughts, I want to add a couple of lines from myself. Although I have not yet released a single game (and, frankly, with my perfectionism, it is unlikely to be released soon).
But still, I tend to agree that the first game is like a model for the whole career and reputation : )

I want to say that first we must study the GG well, and then, having an idea of its capabilities, try to make the game, humble ambitions and adapt ideas to the possibilities. Humble pride and study and study Try and try, give your alpha to friends, until they ask to do further and not just say "Its Ok!" out of politeness )) But even then it will be scary (probably?) to offer a game in Steam or another platform..
The thing is even more - that a certain level of effort is being set. And the quality bar. If the first game is a terrible trash, and somehow makes a profit, the neural chain "why work, and so it will come down" will already be formed.
We can say that the first game is a visiting card of you as a creative person. Or maybe the dream about first game.
And since we are people, mostly lazy creatures .. and I, too) it’s better to immediately set a high quality standard and further increase it even higher .. well, something like that, in fact, it's just thoughts on the topic

As for the GG itself at this time, now the main difficulty - is the documentation..
I have a huge archive of web pages, a couple of dozens of txt-files (with selected lines), regularly look through the forum and write down everything that seems important, and still rely more on memory when I face a new challenge.
In fact, you guys are just wonderful! If not for a lot of answers to questions and good tips, perhaps personally I would have long despaired.
In general, I tend to suggest that... perhaps the official GG team should find someone who would deal exclusively with documentation.

PS. Sorry for my english if it is clumsy

I didn’t finish the important, as it seems to me, thought. About "High quality standard" I meant more internal standard than global.
For example, it is unlikely to even be able to get closer to The Witcher on grafix, or to GTA in the open world. Professional teams work there, dozens, and maybe even hundreds of people. But to make a good game is possible for one person - if you do it with the soul, personally, I believe in it.
in the sense that to simplify the idea to realizable, in the process to simplify ambitions even more and focus on gameplay.

PS. Hmm, how bombastic it turned out, the years in the Larpg let you know)