HI everyone. I've just been playing with an old game I started 2 years ago. There's a couple of issues I'm trying to figure out that no longer work, but the main killer that I have found is that in certain places I seem to get stuck in the terrain. It happens when in close proximity of objects; if I touch them at all, I seem to start flipping madly into and out of the terrain for no reason. Once you set it off, its game over and you have to quit.
The offending objects seem to be the cartoon doorway object and a hedge object, possibly also from the cartoon media, although it's been nearly two years and I am not 100% sure The map used to work fine before DX11 but now exhibits this really maddening bug.

Anyone seen this at all?

Here's a pic of the game in action, not that it helps but I may as well post one here while I'm asking the question.

Here's a video of it in action.

Im guessing here but since 2 years ago Lee reset the terrain Height when he separated the water and land so we could adjust either .. Wondering if that could be the problem somehow and at points the terrain flickers as a conflict of new and old default height change ?

Try altering the terrain slightly in the setup ini
defaultterrainheight=600
defaultwaterheight=500

That was really fun to watch and gave me inspiration for this years christmas greet.

Yeah, I have had this issue on some maps even before the changes synchromesh mentioned above. Before 1.1!

On one of my maps it may happen when you get in between two peaks in the terrain like in this screen shot.


I have seen it happen on other occasions similar to yours but not for some time now. The problem is that it is random, most of the time it won't happen but sometimes it will. When it happens for me it is way more intense that in your video.

In test game, when it occurs, I can usually press F9 and use edit mode to lift the player out and move him away from the spot, and then continue, but occasionally it is so intense the only option is to [ESC] - of course you can't do that in Stand-alone thou.

I reported this way back here: Terrain spasm bugs but got no response at the time, and since no one replied or had similar issue I figured it must just be peculiar to my map.

I still get this occasionally, so kinda happy it is not just me - lol.

Edit: It seams that your case the issue is consistent, so maybe this can lead to a solution

Reliquia....

Why is this in product chat and not in the correct forum ? It belongs in the bug forum...come on guys you should know better.

Probably a mistake by the op - I assume the mods will move it in due time

Aside from that do you have any relevant/usefull input.

Reliquia....

@DVader to me that looks like a collision issue, bring up the debug slider in test game see if the collison boxes for your hedges are fighting if so try changing collision to 0 the gap between the hedges may need to be wider.

UPDATE - Just checked the model and the faces are reversed sheesh I will make a new one for you to try and fix the collision too


as a test use the bookcase for some maze walls the collision box looks right on that

There isn't a big forum anymore, probably best to keep it here so it doesn't get ignored

I have created a new bush, is the cartoon pack free? can I post the model here?


Just checked another model from the cartoon pack, this might seem like a silly question but the models have duplicates in side each other with the outer model having reversed faces ! is this how the cartoon shader works is this intentional ? never seen models like this before

The problem I have is that this IS a bug, and should be in the bug report area whether small or big forum, it is the changes the admin and TGC wanted, so no exceptions whether it's a known member or a new member.Just the other day a member got banned for posting in the wrong section, albeit repeatedly, none the less these rules are there for a reason and should apply to every one.

I posted in this section with regards to a content project which is to become an official model pack for TGC and wanted initial feedback and what users wanted to see specifically in the pack, quite a relevant subject matter for product chat, without second thought it was moved.
It's unfortunate that I have to point out the inconsistencies, with how the product chat is addressed and what threads has been allowed to run free.A simple email to lee with the thread link would have sufficed, sending a PM to lee with the link would also have done the trick.

It belongs in bug reports and till such time the subsection is merged with product chat I expect that mods honor that, considering the fallout and lots of posts we had a few months ago about product chat being over run with off topic threads and push relevant threads down the order.

Just on the first page, while this annoyance isn't as a result of my own thread getting moved, it's more the annoyance of product chat has been over run again with these types of threads, and inconsistent handling of these threads and some one actually getting banned for it.Just a general observation and annoyance.

https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/220147
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/220160
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/220131
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/220002
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/220106
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/220091
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/220093
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/220057

Honestly this is off topic.
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/219815

with the 'BUG' section being some what closed and this is a 'BUG' with media maybe in hindsight models and media would have been the best home, albeit Product chat is a bit vague it is the 'Product' we are chatting about DVader does not know what the problem is it could be the models it could be the terrain, a 'bug report' is what is needed but I think he was just asking if anyone else had a clue before he wastes Lee's time if it is a simple fix, the best place for an answer is here on the forums first, yes we have guide lines on where things should go but some people do abuse it you are correct in that but I don't see the issue with this post.


Maybe we could have a new section 'Community Help' where questions like these could be posted and the ones you have high lighted it would help to qualify if indeed there is a bug or if someone knows of a fix for any issue that maybe posted. Then if the community cannot help it can go to GitHub or where ever, I for one would keep my eyes in the new section, there are a lot of people here that can help or fix things

I actually saw this as a question about an old map when I went to bed last night ..
I didn't actually see it as a GameGuru bug and still don't but more of a particular one off problem with Dvader's old map hence my answer to just being down to one of GG's updates / Evolution of the product that could effect very old maps especially.


Really Who ?


That's a good idea .. I will forward your suggestion .

@GraPhix, in my example there aren't any models anywhere near the problem area(s), it is just terrain, but I assume terrain has some kind of collision checking, so it may well be a collision issue.


That may be intentional, perhaps it has something to do with the way the models get the black lines\toon effect. I remember unfamillia saying something about how to get that effect....

Reliquia....

@reliquia, thank you I have posted in models and media thread because I was confused about the duplicated and reversed faces, I did not know it was a requirement for the cartoon shader but in saying that I have never built a cartoon level lol, I have always thought reversed and duplicated models were a no no lol you learn something new everyday.

I have asked about a "Community Help" section that Graphix suggested ..
Like WOI mentioned you could even ask for feedback on official packs there ..

So a bit of feedback on the state of the Product Chat board, it has become more and more of a mess in recent weeks and I also feel something needs to be done about it.

The Product Chat board is technically a place to post anything that doesn't fit into another board, so users are correct on posting a lot of those threads here. However once posted they turn into a mess of threads which often have bad subject lines and it can be frustrating to work your way through all of them.

I feel that creating another board such as the proposed "Community Help" board would just shift the problem there and we would still be constantly fighting with users posting in the Product Chat board anyway.

Instead I suggest we create a tagging system for threads, so when a user posts a thread they select from a list of tags which are clearly shown on the thread list. These could be things such as "Feature Request", "Community Help", "Discussion".

This system would keep product chat the way it was intended but also mean users can quickly see what the purpose of a thread is meant to be. Also if the user cannot find a tag that works in the board they are in they know they should be posting elsewhere, and we would be able to alert them of that fact when they select an invalid tag as well.

Any thoughts on this idea?

@synchromesh
Sorry not banned but post moderation :p None the less, it is a bit inconsistent, thread that have made it through should have been in their relevant section, even content related issues....Product chat is flooded in general
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/220096#msg2606227


you don't need a new section what you really need is a new forum layout, with todays posts or unread posts link, more annoyingly is that the forum is only able to look up threads you created and not what you have posted before for, automatic locking of threads, which might have been useful in future, the search function all but useless. It's nearly impossible to get a post you might have made two years ago unless you go thread by thread.It's rather a bigger issue in general then just threads not being where they suppose to be.

That said quite a few threads that isn't appropriate here.Especially shader and media issues/bugs which honestly should else where.Whether or not in this thread it happens with official or other content it's still a bug and belongs in the bug section, otherwise we will end up with a dumping ground for just about every thing.The product chat is about, TGC releases, and specific none bug related queries.
There is at least 2 or 3 script related queries in the first 2 pages of the product chat.

first thought this should be in website/forum feedback Lol sorry I could not resist

it sounds like a good idea so basically we would have a drop down with a tag along side the subject line? would thes tags be searchable?

and what about the historical posts would they all have to be edited?

@WOI
Like i said when i went to bed this seemed like a innocent product question about old maps rather than a bug ( Perhaps the word " Bug " in the first post didn't help

But your right …
Not disagreeing with you and we need to relook at the layout of things as this ones already wandering off into models, Media .. Yes a " Post search " would be great .. The times I have needed that …

A lot of this started when Lee mentioned in one post that he mostly only looks at product chat

Dave

Although I can confirm Lee looks at all the Boards this probably is the most active and probably his first port of call and where he makes all his announcements that lead to other threads etc etc .. so yes i can see why users post here for a quick Lee response

@dvader - you could try locking the entities above the collision glitch area then create a terrain hole below then flatten back to surrounding height. The engine will mark that part of the terrain as ‘dirty’ then rebuild the collision geometry underneath. May not work but worth a shot.

I’ve been experimenting with terrain chunking and streaming and have seen a lot of this glitching and this approach cures it (to be clear not bugs as I’ve changed the engine to load terrain chunks via lua and is a technical wip).

Re posting in chat - perhaps I’m ‘guilty’ of posting here about experimental shaders and engine mods - I’m quite happy not to but sometimes I thought others might get inspiration or at least have an interest and often I get lots of insight from others thoughts. Be a bit of a shame if this type of community discussion is either stamped out or posters just get weary of rules and just stop posting.

Re posting about bugs - the bugs board clearly states it’s not in use and to post at git which is fair enough, but discussion of what is a bug could be done here? Not sure it’s a binary choice for this.

I like the tagging idea


Cheers.

If I have an issue with Game Guru itself, I want advice now.
Not a week later in some long-forgotten board nobody uses.
Not on some entirely separate website I have to sign up to.
I want to know if other users have the same issue, and what they have done to fix or mitigate it. The Bug Reports board is dead. I care little for petty rules about topics, I do what I want.



[/sarcasm]

Seriously though, we all know product chat gets more traffic than anywhere else so that's probably why this happens. I agree with Wizard that the search function isn't much good, and it takes some creative search terms to find what you're looking for. Currently, the forum has a smaller frequent user base compared to what it used to, so that contributes too. I will say I think The Next's suggestion of a tag system is fantastic and support it 100%!

AE

I have implemented a test of the tags system on the product chat only for now. Let me know if you can think of any more tags that are needed.

I will be improving the system as well as integrating tags into the search system to better filter results.

I will also work on adding a post history for users so you can look back through all your posts.

In an attempt to get this thread back on topic, any comments on the tag system use this thread https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/220175

Amen to that, lol. I agree with AE, product chat gets traffic. Period. That's why people post here!

Should sort things out a bit,anything that makes searching simpler is good to

Dave

Well... I've just logged in to see if I got any ideas about this and noticed the new tags. Good idea by the way, makes it easy to see what each post is looking for. Then I checked this thread. Wow, quite the mixed response and the reason why the tags have arrived it seems. At least I've helped improve GG's forum by posting this thread :p

I do think it was a little OTT though myself, this is product chat and I am asking a question about an issue I am having with an old map. I'm not assuming it is an actual GG bug, more an update aftershock, so I posted in product chat to see if anyone else had seen it and possibly fixed it. If I find it is doing the same on a fresh map I will report it as a bug.

Anyway, thanks for those who suggested some solutions and to Earthling45 for the praise I wasn't 100% happy with the vid myself, for some reason the snow causes havock with Movie Studio and it always looks a little blocky, which then gets worse after uploading to Youtube; but I digress.

@ syncromesh. The floor height may well have some bearing on the issue, but your suggestion has potentially solved why my Space Harrier demo, made even longer ago than this one, might be messed up with my harrier not managing to get to the floor now. I spent a good hour scouring my lua code to see why he was stopping well before he hit the floor (I put no code in for that, as the floor just worked) I'll be trying your suggestion out with that also I'm assuming the floor used to be a little higher?

I think the models may be the problem, but will test them in a new map to be sure it's not some combination of terrain height and the models. I'll also try flattening the terrain in the maze as cybernescence suggested. It may well fix things to edit the terrain in the offending areas again.

@ reliquia. I do have a second area which is way worse than the maze part. I have to jump around to get into it for starters, the stairs seemingly being too high to even jump over (not that they actually are). That part is really choppy and I didn't want to end the vid on the bug part

@ Graphix. Thanks for looking at the models. I'm pretty sure as suggested above that the weirdness is intentional for the cartoon pack. I do think that other games such as Jet Set Radio used a superior method (cell shading?). I'm not sure about all the models but some will be paid for (Easter pack) and some may be default ones. I'd have to check.

I would like to get this finished before Xmas if possible I spent a lot of time with it and it was very near completion at the time. I spent ages getting the inside areas to be snow free, a bridge being particularly time consuming as I had to deal with the top as well as being under it. When I tried it yesterday I found the snow no longer working and had to fix that. Then the menu at the start was broken so fixed that, then found this issue and though no idea lol, so posted this thread. I also noticed that because I had baked it previously, it was always in baked mode, even after changing to real-time and saving. I'll probably have to re-bake and cancel to remove that. Unless the bake looks better now of course.

Thanks again for the suggestions and if you have any more please let me know.

Oh, just for giggles a pic of the Bunny Harrier example.

@graphix Yes, that is how those models get a black outline, basically the larger inside out model is textured black, when looking at the outside faces gameguru will render them see through so you can see the inner faces on the other side, because its slightly bigger than the real model you would only see the edge of the black model, making it look like the main model has a black outline.

Hi Belidos. I noticed your storage house either expired or you have moved it. I lost a few items myself and probably more since Slightly off topic but you know what I mean

Storage house?

The house we used to send stuff in swg, lol.

Oh yeah totally forgot about that, havent been on the in ages lol i havent moved anything on there so probably got destroyed

@ Belidos. I guessed as much, just thought I'd let you know in case you wanted to top up your other buildings.

I've tested the offending objects on a fresh map. The doorway objects seem fine on the flat at least, but the hedges are definitely still dodgy. I don't see the juddering, but still get stuck in the hedge quite easily. I also can get pushed backwards when running alongside it.

I've also tried the setup file to alter the terrain height, but it was set as syncromesh listed already. I tried changing to a higher and lower value (100 each way) but saw not difference in either this map or the Space Bunny one. I wonder if it affects current levels or just new ones?

I include an image of both objects with the collision boxes showing. I didn't get the multiple boxes myself, but perhaps I am doing something wrong.



Oh, lastly the doorway is part of the is part of the cartoon assets which I think were free. The hedge is from the Easter DLC.

The bug report section was completely useless on the forums.

LOL I was playing with the wrong Bush sheesh yes that is a collision issue just set collisionmode = 1 in the FPE's for the offending assets

Ah I thought it looked a little different.

Changed the FPE for the hedge and that now seems okay which is good, because I really didn't want to redo the maze The doorway however is already set to 1 and so are my stairs leading to it, so still not sure why they are both having issues.

Hi DVader which door and steps is it ? I will look at them too

Might need to set isimmobile=yes as well, that forces the mesh collision mode.

It's the Doorway object from the Easter pack. The stairs I made myself. Both work okay on a fresh map, but not on the Xmas one. I've also had it happen once inside the house at the start, but not sure which object caused it, a wall or door object I'm thinking. I've also found parts of the terrain that stop me progressing as well, even though I have increased the climb angle to 100 to make sure it isn't just that causing issues.

Edit - Yeah I tried the immobile flag pretty much straightaway, makes no odds unfortunately.

I'm using the invisible wall objects in places as well. I seem to remember reading they were broken awhile back?

I also tried baking the level so I could cancel and remove the bake. Hitting F1-F4 does nothing now though? Is baking disabled completely now or just changed how it operates?

Shift+f1 to f4

I was just about to post I sorted the bake Cheers for the quick answer though

Okay, I think I have sussed the main issue. The invisible walls are causing the issue. Once I remove them the weirdness stops. I will have to reload the original map to see if the objects are still a problem, but I think most the falling through the floor problems will be solved. Well I hope so

excellent news glad you got sorted

Setting the invisible walls to collision=1 sorts them I'm surprised this wasn't updated in the pack, I'm sure the one included by default was at some point. Weird, as they were not all that near to the dodgy areas. Now I just have a weird floating issue to sort in one place, I'll have to check the nearby objects by the looks.

So just to help anyone in a similar spot, the following fixed this:

Changed the FPE collision setting in the hedge object to 1

collisionmode = 1

The invisible walls need changing in the same way.

Both objects are from the Easter pack. Hopefully this will be updated in the future to make this thread obsolete

Thanks all for the ideas and help