Product Chat / undiscoverable entities on mapeditor

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Flatlander
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Posted: 15th Aug 2018 21:04
This will also be posted on git. I like to use the forum posts for easy access to an attached video.

So, what do I mean by "undiscoverable?" It is simply when placing an entity on the map pointing to it with the cursor does not recognize that anything is there. You will see what I mean in the video. This is troublesome when you want to change parameters within the property of the entity. Especially if you need to put a switch that has this problem in a larger room or building entity.

The biggest problem to figure out why this is happening is because it seems to happen to 3rd party models, especially switches for some reason. There are two that I show in this example. One by Acid (handleswitch) and the other by jForthDesign (pulldownswitch) It seems I had run across this issue with others but can't recall those entities. The video shows Acid's switch, one of his puzzle books, and jForthDesign's switch. I move the cursor to each one and you will note that the book is discoverable by the editor but not the switches. The odd thing about it is that one can actually obtain the properties of the entity by using the box method used mainly for multiple entities. The strange thing about it is that you have to create the box well below the actual entity. You will see this in the video.


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granada
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Posted: 15th Aug 2018 21:24 Edited at: 15th Aug 2018 21:40
I don’t sapose it would have anything to do with how they were modelled,might be there not centred in the model program when exported.just a thought probably rubbish .

Edit. Thinking about it probably is rubbish,but I’m sure someone will no the answer

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Teabone
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Posted: 15th Aug 2018 22:33 Edited at: 15th Aug 2018 22:35
This was a similar issue reported to me recently about some of my wall mount items on the store. It seems to be related to possibly the defaultheight value. The anchor point doesnt move with it. I have not tested using offsety or alike as an alternate option.

If you try selecting the entities using a draw box you should be able to then select them. Their anchor points are probably just below them by a few units.



Because Game Guru has virtually no way to search-auto-select entities on a map.... problems like these will be common.
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Bod
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Posted: 15th Aug 2018 23:02
This has also been happening for a long time with animated dynamic entities, you have to rubber band them to select them.
Belidos
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Posted: 15th Aug 2018 23:19 Edited at: 15th Aug 2018 23:21
My theory from all the messing about trying to work this out over time is its because the origin point is offset from the model to give it height and because the model is so small, for something to register under the cursor you need to aim within a certain distance of the origin point, the larger the mesh the larger the distance, with a small object like this you will need to target almost directly over the origin point and because it's offset you won't find it by hovering over the mesh, plus the origin inserts on exactly the same level as the terrain mesh (which is why models that are single plains directly on the origin clash with flat terrain), so with a target zone so small the terrain mesh can obscure it.
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Bod
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Posted: 15th Aug 2018 23:38
It only ever happens to me with my animated models, in fact most of them, for example the origins on my static and animated helicopters are identical but only the animated one has to be rubber banded to select it after placement.
Flatlander
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Posted: 16th Aug 2018 00:06
@Teabone, I do have many of your signs and wall mount items. They do have the same issue. However, I cannot rubberband them or use a draw box when they are on a wall because the editor only discovers/recognizes the static wall model and so no draw box is available -- only the entity menu of the wall. I have attached 4 images. See the following descriptions.

Image #1
This image contains a room (wall) and a dynamic door. I am pointing the cursor at the wall.

Image #2
I am now pointing at the door.

Image #3
I am now viewing the sign displaying how it is away from the wall a little too much. My cursor is not hovering over anything.

Image #4
I am now hovering over the sign, the editor only discovers/recognizes the static wall model and so no draw box is available to use in order to select the sign so that I can move it closer. The bottom line, placement has to be spot on and all the parameters correct prior to placement. This might mean that you place the wall item outside of any room and not over any other entities, make the parameter adjustments. Such as the ifused or ifkey parameters.
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Flatlander
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Posted: 16th Aug 2018 00:13
@Dave, I was actually thinking that it must have something to do with the mesh. I have very limited knowledge in that area and was wondering if Belidos was also talking about a mesh problem.

Two questions how does one redo the mesh or whatever. The second can this be considered a bug that needs to be addressed in the mapeditor software -- somehow -- ?
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Belidos
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Posted: 16th Aug 2018 05:20
@bod; that may be a simar issue with origin points, to animate as you know the entity needs two or more object meshes within the model, which means more than one origin point, maybe that's what's confusing the editor. I've also found that with most animated objects changing the specular in properties breaks them in the editor and stops them being selectable.
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Bod
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Posted: 16th Aug 2018 08:17
You could have a point Belidos, I just commented out the animation frames to test and it is still the same, both models have the origin in the centre of the rotors but with the animated model the rotors are the second mesh.
Belidos
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Posted: 16th Aug 2018 09:22
Try setting both objects origin points to the base of the model, and animate the rotors by putting the 3d cursor at the rotation point then switching to the model that allows you to translate around the 3d cursor, I've found that helps relieve some of the issues, not all of them though.
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Posted: 16th Aug 2018 09:49 Edited at: 16th Aug 2018 09:57
I always set my origin to 0,0 in Sketchup etc.... then when in GG editor move it into the position I want, I think if you set the origin anything higher than 0 the collision box is wrong in GG.


one thing you could try is take the static model into Fragmotion and assign a 'root' bone to the bottom corner of the asset and assign all the vertices to it that may help alleviate the problem.


I will create a 3d sign today and try to replicate the issue
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Posted: 16th Aug 2018 10:25
Personally I would prefer all simple dynamic entities (or objects the user might want to make dynamic) to have their origins in the centre or at an obvious centre of rotation.

I seem to spend a lot of time chucking meshes through Fragmotion to reposition them before I can use them in GG as dynamic entities.

The fpe has positional offsets so you can have the object 'sit' right on the map, or don't they work properly?
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Belidos
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Posted: 16th Aug 2018 11:00 Edited at: 16th Aug 2018 11:01
Haven't tested lately, but the offsets in the fpe do nothing for me, if I remember right someone said they were a legacy from fpsc that we're never fully implemented. I always found that a non-zeroed origin point used to cause issues with physics and targeting, especially when using the prompt at enemy command.
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 16th Aug 2018 14:53 Edited at: 16th Aug 2018 15:11
ok I have been playing with this a bit, and I am not sure if it is by design or a fault ! I still think it has something to do with the collision box, I would try deleting the .DBO file for the asset the .DBO will have all the reference points for the terrain and collision box take a backup first but I think it is worth a try.

This is why I always set my origin to 0,0 in Sketchup and then move the entity into position when in GameGuru

Another little issue is if I put a bone in a model the collision box will not display anymore but it is still there maybe I am doing something wrong? I have attached the test models so you can try the 'face' click of the model and see if the move handles appear.

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Belidos
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Posted: 16th Aug 2018 17:50
Quote: "Another little issue is if I put a bone in a model the collision box will not display anymore but it is still there"


That would be because if you have a bone in your item you need to use the character FX or the weapon bone FX, they're the only shaders (unless it's changed) that can handle bones properly.
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Teabone
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Posted: 16th Aug 2018 23:36
There seems to be a new problem here. So my wall mounts are actually positioned at the floor level. They float only due to defaultheight set to 50. When remove that part of the FPE they position at the floor in GG as expected. However they are impossible to select without drawing a box around them. This seem to be the case with any decal styled models where they are a flat plain. This didnt use to the case in the past.

I'm assuming for all my signs now i will have to make add more polys to them so they can be gripped in the editor? Will do some tests and report back.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2018 11:54
Can you specify a stock entity that exhibits this issue of not being able to directly select, then I can quickly drag it into a fresh install of GameGuru and see it first hand, thanks!
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2018 12:43
I also have a problem when wanting to select animated models when they have been placed amongst other entities. Sometimes the only way I can select them is to move everything else around it.
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