3rd Party Models/Media Chat / What do you think of the new Blender 2.8 changes

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TazMan
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Posted: 12th Jul 2018 11:04
I didn't know that the new Blender was going to be much different to the current one, but I read something on the net that made me check out the beta version. I had a play around with it and I love it. There are a few things in there that hardened Blender users won't like, such as the shortcut changes for instance.

Overall though I think the changes were necessary. I have only been using it for a short time though so I haven't got the muscle memory for the shortcuts like some of you will have.

Check it out and tell us what you think, I was informed it is best to get 'blender-2.80-d28d202-win64-vc14.zip' version as the other one doesn't work on some machines. If you are concerned that this version might overwrite your current version don't worry it is a stand-alone so you can put it on your machine and run both versions.

Here is the link to the version mentioned: https://builder.blender.org/download/blender-2.80-d28d202-win64-vc14.zip

Here is the link to the download page: https://builder.blender.org/download
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Belidos
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Posted: 12th Jul 2018 11:34
I've been looking at the design document, meaning to check out the beta, but haven't had time.

Most of it looks good.

I'm just worried about your mention of changes to shortcuts, i'm not seeing anything about any changes to shortcuts in the design document, apart form adding a tool shelf so you can click instead of use shortcuts.

Is that what you're talking about? If so can we still use the shortcuts or is this new shelf replacing shortcuts? Because if it's the latter i won't even bother downloading it. When i use my pen tablet in Blender (which i'm starting to more often now because i'm learning to paint my own stylized textures) i want to move the pen about as little as possible, shortcuts are perfect for that because i can choose an option without moving the cursor from where i need it, having to click on buttons is just going to be a nightmare.
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TazMan
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Posted: 12th Jul 2018 16:04
From what I have read they are not getting rid of shortcuts, just changing them, as I said I have downloaded the beta and had a play and some of the shortcuts have definitely changed for instance the space bar used to bring up the search now it brings up something different, search is one of the choices but there are others added to it.

So I suppose that they haven't changed everything, but some have added functionality, as I said I am a novice with Blender so don't know about everything that has changed. I notice that everything seems to have moved though. I definitely read that some shortcuts have been completely changed but don't know which. But this should not be too bad since the user can just change it back to the way they are used to having it.

To me the changes they have made make it easier to get to grips with it, using nodes and texturing for instance. I was really struggling but with this new version, it seems a lot easier.

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Belidos
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Posted: 13th Jul 2018 13:33 Edited at: 13th Jul 2018 14:51
Taking a look at it so far i hate it, the biggest issue for me is it looks like they've removed the basic blender render, and now we're stuck with cycles and nodes, i never use cycles nodes, i hate them vehemently, and i absolutely refuse to use them. Some of the new features are great, but they have removed a few of the features i moved most, and made too many changes to the interface, so looks like i won't be updating, i would rather learn a whole new piece of software than use it.
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TazMan
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Posted: 14th Jul 2018 12:27
From what I have read they haven't got rid of Blender Render they are going to rename it to Eevee Render, this will be an update to Blender Render along with all the other updates.

Also, I haven't read anywhere that they have got rid of any features, just moved them to try and make it simpler and more efficient. Yes, this will mean a learning curve for people that have been using it for some time but in my opinion, it is a bit like programming we should always be learning to keep ourselves current.

Quote: " i would rather learn a whole new piece of software than use it."


Yes, you could do this, but in my experience, Blender is one of the best tools out there for modeling, unless you want to spend thousands of pounds for something from Autodesk and get a tool that is not quite as good as Blender. I have tried them all and keep coming back to Blender.

Andrew...
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Belidos
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Posted: 14th Jul 2018 19:32 Edited at: 14th Jul 2018 19:38
They've removed blender render, and replaced it with evee, which works similar to cycles using the horrible node system, which for example makes adding a texture more complicated because you have to add and link multiple nodes, whereas with blender render you just load it onto the material and bobs your uncle, in terms of ease of use this is a huge step back.

Also they seem to have removed most of the functionality from the main toolbox to make room for buttons for stuff that was already a button or menu option in the header bar , and put all the previous content of the toolbox onto the header bar. I really don't see why they've done that, they could have just added the new stuff instead of moving the other stuff somewhere less accessible to make room

So far the changes that are supposed to make it easier to use are just adding steps and making it more labour intensive in my opinion.
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TazMan
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Posted: 15th Jul 2018 12:02
Ah I see, I didn't realize exactly what they had done because I am very much still a novice at Blender. I am still going to move to it though because it seems to be one of the best around. Maybe when it is time to launch it they will put a patch to make it more like the old blender that you can put on if you don't like the new design.

I didn't really notice the rendering as much because I like to use Substance Painter, I was just going by other reviews, so all I need to do with Blender is map the model.

Andrew...
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Belidos
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Posted: 15th Jul 2018 21:22
Yeah to be honest I've moved away from texturing in blender to using SP because of PBR, but I like to use blender for DNSI texturing, and also it's nice to see your textured live while modelling, I've just never liked nodesomeone, can't get on with them and really don't know why they've replaced blender render, surely more options is better.
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reliquia
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Posted: 16th Jul 2018 01:03 Edited at: 16th Jul 2018 01:58
First impression: Much cleaner interface.

Usability: new learning curve
It seams that they put all the commands in a Blender (I know I know lol) and they all ended up in different places

Short cuts, I found first up the most common ones I use have been changed.

[A] selects everything, but no longer un-selects everything.
[Space] now brings up a menu with many commands that used to be accessed by [W].

Seams there is a focus on more mouse clicks. For example to inset a face - you used to be able to go W\inset\ move the mouse to make the changes you want. Now you have to hit space\inset\then click the face again and move the mouse to make the changes you want.

Smoothing: seams you can only add that in edit mode, and can't find the Auto Smooth setting anywhere.


That's just a few of the things I noticed by playing with the default cube for about 10 minutes.

Definitely has a much nicer feel to it.

I only ever texture using external tools (photoshop\gimp\substance) so don't care about the renderers.

For sure it will be a re-learning curve though. Unlikely they will manage to different code bases, so to keep current I guess you will have to make the jump sooner or later. And it won't be long before you won't be able stand to go back to older versions, it'll be like how did I ever like this!

Reliquia....
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Belidos
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Posted: 16th Jul 2018 09:25 Edited at: 16th Jul 2018 09:27
Yeah the issue with the [A] short cut was one of the first things i noticed, and it's actually on of the most used short cuts (at least for me), before if i needed to make changes to the whole mesh (scaling etc.) i could press [A], make the change, then press [A] again to clear the selection, now to clear the selection you either have to right click another face meaning there will always be on face, edge, or vertice selected, or root around in the header menu to find the select none option.

I've noticed this with a lot of the changes to shortcuts, they do't make it easier or quicker, they practically double the workflow in number of clicks, button presses, and time.

They've also removed the textured view so you can't preview your baked texture without setting the baked texture up as a material, which is a whole other set of nodes and settings, now tripling your workflow.

Also, the new Eevee renderer has no texture bake options, so you will have to use cycles which again is extra workflow because you have to set up nodes for the textures and materials, and then set up another set of nodes for the bake, plus cycles has always been rubbish for texture baking because it tries to combine textures instead of just bake a diffuse texture.

Oh and they have removed the Blender Game Engine, which doesn't really effect us, but is annoying quite a few people who have been developing games with it for years.
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reliquia
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Posted: 16th Jul 2018 10:25
Yeah, sometimes you wonder what they be thinking - lol

I am always keen to use latest updates - but have to admit after playing with the default cube for 10 minutes as I mentioned earlier, I then went back to working on a model in my current blender setup and immediately went audibly "that's better!"

So till this is an official release I don't think I will spend too much time with it.

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Belidos
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Posted: 16th Jul 2018 10:59
Not to mention i had gotten used to the header bar being at the bottom and not the top, now they're jst trying to confuse me all over again

Oh and they've made the handles for splitting the screen so tiny and almost invisible, it took me half an hour how to work out how to split my view, it was bad enough before, now it's worse
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reliquia
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Posted: 16th Jul 2018 11:47
Quote: "Oh and they've made the handles for splitting the screen so tiny and almost invisible, it took me half an hour how to work out how to split my view"


Lol - you doing better than me, I just thought they hadn't added that feature back in yet!

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Belidos
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Posted: 16th Jul 2018 11:49
It's there, if you look in the corners of the view, there's a tiny little dark grey dot, that's the new handle for splitting views.
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TazMan
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Posted: 16th Jul 2018 12:44
Quote: "i could press [A], make the change, then press [A] again to clear the selection, now to clear the selection you either have to right click another face meaning there will always be on face, edge, or vertice selected, or root around in the header menu to find the select none option."


@Belidos, On this one it isn't too bad, it is 'A' to select all and 'alt-A' to deselect.

On the texturing point, I have decided to teach myself nodes because if this is the way they are going then I want to learn it.
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reliquia
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Posted: 16th Jul 2018 13:15
Quote: "it is 'A' to select all and 'alt-A' to deselect."

No doubt they have their reasons for that, but it is way more user friendly to select [A] to select all and select [A] again to deselect. Hopefully we can just remap the keys again, or someone will make a plugin to put the ease of use back in.

Quote: "On the texturing point, I have decided to teach myself nodes because if this is the way they are going then I want to learn it."

Always good to learn more stuff, but for game design I just think it is easier to use photoshop or dedicated tools like substance.

I do like the new clean look a lot thought And it will be the only way to go once it is released officially - only way to keep current! It will be interesting to see what import\export options are available as well.

But will have to check it out later. Just a little too busy to learn all the interface at present...

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Belidos
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Posted: 16th Jul 2018 13:54 Edited at: 16th Jul 2018 14:02
Quote: "I do like the new clean look a lot thought"


I agree there, one of the few things i like about 2.8 is the new UI, it's much cleaner and more professional looking.

Also, it's a lot more resource intense than the older versions, this is what happens if i try to run it on the laptop i use on my breaks to model with perfectly fine on the older versions:

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TazMan
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Posted: 18th Jul 2018 12:19
@reliquia

Quote: "Hopefully we can just remap the keys again, or someone will make a plugin to put the ease of use back in"


Yes, they still have the ability to remap the keys just like the old system.

Quote: "only way to keep current!"


This is very true and now that PBR is hitting the market in a big way I think we will see a lot of changes in 3D software.

@Belidos

Don't forget this is an Alpha version of Blender 2.8 so will have quite a few bits and pieces that will need bashing out.
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Belidos
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Posted: 19th Jul 2018 09:58
Quote: "Don't forget this is an Alpha version of Blender 2.8 so will have quite a few bits and pieces that will need bashing out."


According to their development broadcast last week, project "code quest" (what they're calling the development of 2.8) is complete, and they are only working on code crash and bug issues now.
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TazMan
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Posted: 19th Jul 2018 11:35
Sorry Belidos I was just going by what it says on the Splash Screen, which is Blender 2.80 Alpha. I really don't think this is ready yet though as I have had a couple of major problems with it myself where it has crashed for no reason that I could see.

Also when you try adding just about any Add-on including .OBJ import/export it says that you need Blender 2.80x so this says to me that it is not the final version yet.

Andrew...
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Belidos
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Posted: 19th Jul 2018 12:13 Edited at: 19th Jul 2018 12:15
It is still Alpha, but apparently for them Alpha means testing the finished code for bugs and crashes. Although saying that, it doesn't mean they won't add or change something at any time if enough people complain about it. Plus it's still open source, so anything can be changed at any time as a third party add-on.
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TazMan
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Posted: 28th Jul 2018 13:20
@reliquia Blender has brought out their new Alpha version and it now includes an option via the splash screen that allows you to set all the presets back to the Blender Version 2.7x via the Interaction drop down.

I haven't tested it thoroughly but for instance, you now are able to use A to select all and deselect all just as it was in the older versions, someone who knows Blender a lot better than I do would have to test it.

It would stop you having to go through the preferences changing it all yourself and would allow you to use it as before whilst learning the new way that it worked.

Andrew...

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reliquia
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Posted: 29th Jul 2018 03:49
@TazMan
Awesome will have to check that out.

lol - this is exactly why software developers are not allowed to design cars - when you get an updated version of your favorite sports car, pressing the brake may just be changed to accelerating to the national speed limit. And who decided the steering wheel should now be on the roof!

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