Tutorials & Guides / [LOCKED] Texture Sets Needed For Entities

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Belidos
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Posted: 7th Mar 2018 07:44 Edited at: 28th Mar 2018 12:19
I recently answered a question that someone had asked about PBR in GameGuru on another thread, and it kind of turned into a mini guide, which Lee was kind enough to proof read and confirm is accurate for me, so i decided to give it's own post to make it more visible and easier to find in the future.

What you will find in this mini-guide is a simple explanation of which texture sets GameGuru uses for both PBR and non-PBR with some basic examples, hopefully it answers a few questions for those who aren't sure.


There are two primary methods of PBR (there are variations, but these two are the common methods):

1. Spec/Gloss: This will usually include a Diffuse or Albedo, Specular, Gloss, Normal, and Ambient Occlusion
2. Metalic/Roughness: This will usually include a Color, Metalic, Roughness, Normal, and Ambient Occlusion

There are also additional maps you can use, such as height, detail, glow etc.

With GameGuru, we have two rendering methods:

The first is the basic non-PBR which consists of Diffuse, Specular, and Normal (with additional options for illumination and cube maps),

The second is for PBR models, and we use a Metalic/Roughness method with a little twist, the Roughness map is named _gloss, but is actually a roughness map, and the metalic map is named _metalness.

Height maps, although added to the PBr workflow in GameGuru, as far as i know don't actually work yet (confirmed as not working by Lee 6th March 2018), and i'm not sure if _ao is added yet (confirmed as working by Lee 6th March 2018).

Textures a PBR model should have for GameGuru are:

_color - this is your base coloured texture


_metalness - this is a standard metalic texture, this is a grey scale image where white is highly reflective/shiny, and black is non-reflective/shiny.


_gloss - this is actually a roughness texture renamed to _gloss, it is a grey scale image where back is completely smooth, and white is highly rough.


_normal - this is your normal map


_height - a height map (confirmed as not working by Lee 6th March 2018)


_ao - ambient occlusion, a grey scale image that creates the shadows in cracks, crevices, and corners etc. (confirmed as working by Lee 6th March 2018)


_detail - this adds fine detail scaled and tiled across the model - optional
I don't have a detail texture example.

_illumination - this is an emissive map, it will allow you to assign areas of your texture to glow. Primarily it is grey scale with black = no glow, white = glow, however the glowing areas can be coloured, and lighter is brighter, the illumination map will take the place of the detail map, they cannot be used at the same time, PirateMyke: to use an illumination map the models fpe shader line has to point to apbr_illum.fx . GraPhyX: Confirmed you don't need to change the FX, and _emissive will also work
optional
(currently in Beta version only, not Live or Public Preview).
I don't have an illumination texture example.

Result in GameGuru:



Textures a non-PBR model should have in Gameguru are::

_D - this is the diffuse texture



_N - this is the normal texture



_S - this is specular texture



_I - this is an illumination texture (optional)

_cube - this is a cube reflection map (optional)


Result in GameGuru:




The two methods should not be mixed.

Note: The textures and model shown in the images aren't perfect, they're just quick examples i knocked up to give a rough idea of how they look.

For further information on what PBR is and how it works, i have found a great video that was made by Alegorithmic as part of their tutorial for Substance Painter 2, it goes into great detail, and while it's mainly for another product, a lot of it will help you understand PBR in GameGuru too.



Additional:

While in test mode there is a debugging mode for viewing the individual textures, pressing F11 will bring you into the primary debugging mode which allows you to turn off terrain, water, and various other aspects, if you press F11 a second time you will enter a second debugging mode which allows you to use the numpad keys to cycle through the various textures used in PBR so that the models display the raw texture selected.

Additional Credits:
GraPhiX - for supplying the information about texture views in debug mode
PirateMyke - For the update about illumination maps

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Posted: 7th Mar 2018 07:54 Edited at: 7th Mar 2018 07:59
Thanks Belidos I think it is also important to mention if working with PBR there are 2 'default' workflows than you can use these are UE4 and Unity 5 the maps that are exported from these workflows work perfectly in GG however the _metallic map has to be renamed to _metalness and the _roughness renamed to _gloss in UE4 if you use Untiy the _roughness has to be inverted and renamed to _gloss.

when you run a test level in GG with a PBR asset you can 'cycle' through the different maps to see if they are working correctly, drop a PBR asset into the editor run test game press F11 twice (second press removes technical info from the bottom of your screen) then while looking directly at your asset press the number keys 1 through to 9 and you will see each individual map, I think this is for debugging purposes only and will not be in the final release.
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Belidos
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Posted: 7th Mar 2018 08:19
Thanks GrapPhix.

The differences in Unity and Unreal workflows are actually explained in detail in the video i linked, there's some great info in there. The main purpose of the post itself is more just to show the basic structure and point out the naming structure than to explain how to get those textures, it's more aimed at people who know how to texture for PBR and just need to know which ones to use.

The information about the debug is good to know, i knew it was there, but i wasn't sure how to access it, i will add it to the post, thanks.

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Posted: 21st Mar 2018 00:25
Hi all

Great info @Belidos.

One question, had no idea about the _detail map. Is the detail map going to be used for illumination?

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Posted: 21st Mar 2018 02:57
The shader has been updated to use the _illumination for emmisive maps now. _Detail will tile a pattern over the texture to simulate texture pattern. Still cant be used together. I have seen the change in the Private Beta and it works, Dont know if it made it to Public preview yet.
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Belidos
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Posted: 21st Mar 2018 09:10
Cheers Myke, i've added that to my guide.

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Posted: 21st Mar 2018 13:20
This is a brilliant guide thanks for the help Belidos, this should be useful for everyone, novice to experienced.
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Posted: 26th Mar 2018 21:18
Need to change the shader for the object to apbr_illum.fx. This should be out in the Public Preview now.
Name the Emissive texture name_illumination.format extension you are using.
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Posted: 27th Mar 2018 00:45
@Pirate Myke, so is that temporary?

With DX9 models the system just knows to use an illumination map simply by it being present in the models folder. So it just used the required shaders as needed.

Just curious

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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 27th Mar 2018 01:58
You do use the required shader needed. It will set flags for the main shader and compile the .blob file for runtime. This is what most of the special named ones are. Compile instructions from the core shader part.
Objects use this new shader for dx11. Choose whether you want Illumination or more detail with an object, set map and shader as needed.

Characters still use the character_basic.fx file. The emissive map is tagged _illimination and no detail maps are assigned in that section of the shader.
Either way the shader now looks for the _Illumination texture first, then if none are present, it looks for the detail texture instead, and compiles the shader accordingly.
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Belidos
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Posted: 27th Mar 2018 09:29
I'll add that to the opening post.

I am really hoping that having a separate illumination shader is only temporary, because having to choose a different shader if you want illumination is a huge step back in usability and ease of use, considering before DX11 you could just add an _I texture and it would automaticaly pick it up..

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Posted: 27th Mar 2018 09:57
Yeah, what Belidos said - couldn't agree more....

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 27th Mar 2018 14:27
I have made a Round Bollard using emissive textures, I did not change shader file I am using apbr_basic.fx I did not rename my emissive map it is _emissive.dds Preben has done an amazing job.

I am using the latest PP and have been testing illumination since Preben fixed it I have tested _I _illumination and _emissive they all work out of the box no need for shader changes or forcing the compile of shaders.

I have posted the model in my free model thread if you would like to try it, transparency also works with illumination too

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Belidos
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Posted: 27th Mar 2018 14:40 Edited at: 27th Mar 2018 14:41
I'm not actually seeing any emission or illumination in your video, all i'm seeing is an area of the model that isn't being effected by the various sliders, so it's staying the same constant brightness.

Illumination should look like this in GameGuru:



It should glow as if it is a source of light, regardless of how light or dark your scene is.

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Posted: 27th Mar 2018 15:08 Edited at: 27th Mar 2018 15:44
maybe this is clearer, one asset with emissive and the same asset with no emissive.

it does work, it is difficult getting the sliders right without breaking PBR this is a first incarnation of illumination maps it will probably get better but my point was to get basic self illumination you only now need an illumination map no need to tweak shaders.

also my bloom is only on 1



here is the same bollard without the smoke glass so the illumination is not dulled

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Belidos
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Posted: 27th Mar 2018 21:15 Edited at: 27th Mar 2018 21:17
I'm not saying there's no difference with the illumination map you use. What I'm sating is that what you are saying is illumination, isn't illumination, all that is happening there by the looks of it is the brightness of that part of the texture isn't being effected by sliders, it's only part of the illumination not theven whole, for it to be real illumination it needs to glow.

First things first to check to see it isn't just because you have bloom off check your bloom is on, if it gets brighter and glows then it's working. If it doesn't its probably because you're not setting the illumination fx in the fpe

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Posted: 27th Mar 2018 21:56
I have not said I have a problem with it

I am happy with what Preben as done so far, I wanted a subtle effect on the bollards that's why I put the bulb in smoked glass lol the second bollard is very bright because I have not put it behind glass and I only had bloom on 1 if I increase bloom it gets brighter and I get light bursts too.

I have done quite a few models with emissive and I am happy with the results so far I will post more models once I am done.
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Posted: 27th Mar 2018 22:26 Edited at: 28th Mar 2018 12:24
Ah ok so you do actually get a glow then?

It j ust doesn't show very well in the videos, when I can get on my pc again I'll take a look see how it looks properly.

I didn't say you had a problem, i said i had a problem with it because on the videos it doesn't look like it's illuminating at all as there's no glow halo like the old illumination had

But that is probably just the video not showing it off very well. I just wanted you to check with and without bloom and the fx for piece of mind.

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Belidos
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Posted: 28th Mar 2018 12:23
Edited the original post to reflect the information given by PirateMyke and GraPhiX, thanks for the help guys, much appreciated, i'm hoping this can turn into a one stop guide for the basics of what is needed for entities, and it's going well so far.

One thing i would like to add to this is a list of shaders and what they're for, does anyone have a complete list? Or is it a bit early to add that due to things still being worked on?

Anyone else have any other tips etc that could be useful here?

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OldFlak
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Posted: 28th Mar 2018 14:02
Yep: Proper file export info - the web is full of varying approaches and rarely specific on what settings to use when exporting textures.

So a list of .dds type for each texture.
Info on the pros and cons of using .dds and .png textures.
This kind of info will certainly help some, especially when starting out I am sure.

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Posted: 28th Mar 2018 14:12
PBR Shaders:
What happens with these shaders are different flags are called to use different parts of the core shader. From the chosen flags in the assigned shaders compiles the required parts of the core file and makes the shader you need for runtime.

apbr_anim - used for bone animated objects that are not characters.
Contents:
string Description = "PBR Shader (animated)";
#define ALPHACLIPNOTRANSPARENCY
#define ALPHACLIP 0.42
#define WITHANIMATION
#include "apbr_core.fx"


apbr_basic - Used for most static and dynamic objects.
Contents:
string Description = "PBR Shader";
#define ALPHACLIP 0.1
#include "apbr_core.fx"

apbr_core - Dont mess with this file unless you understand shader code. This is not assigned to any objects at all. It contains all the base code to compile the stuff you need for your shader use.

apbr_illum - Used for static objects that you want illumination in.
Contents:
string Description = "PBR Shader (Illumination)";
#define ALPHACLIP 0.1
#define ILLUMINATIONMAP
#include "apbr_core.fx"

apbr_illum_anim - Used for bone skinned meshes with animation that needs Illumination also.
Contents:
string Description = "PBR Anim Shader (Illumination)";
#define ILLUMINATIONMAP
#define ALPHACLIPNOTRANSPARENCY
#define ALPHACLIP 0.42
#define WITHANIMATION
#include "apbr_core.fx"

apbr_noalpha -Used on objects with no alpha clip needed. (will need to get more info on this one).
Contents:
string Description = "PBR Shader (no alpha)";
#define ALPHADISABLED
#define ALPHACLIP 0.0
#include "apbr_core.fx"

apbr_terrain - Used for the terrain. Not assignable that I can see.
Contents:
string Description = "PBR Shader (terrain)";
#define PBRTERRAIN
#define ALPHADISABLED
#include "apbr_core.fx"

apbr_tree - Used for trees that are static with out animation sway.
Contents:
string Description = "PBR Shader (tree)";
#define ALPHACLIPNOTRANSPARENCY
#define ALPHACLIP 0.42
#include "apbr_core.fx"

apbr_treea - Used for trees that are static with animation sway.
Contents:
string Description = "PBR Shader (tree animated)";
#define ALPHACLIPNOTRANSPARENCY
#define ALPHACLIP 0.42
#define WITHANIMATION
#include "apbr_core.fx"

apbr_veg - Used for the PBR Vegitation. (grass) Not assignable that I have seen.
Contents:
string Description = "PBR Shader (vegetation)";
#define PBRVEGETATION
#define ALPHACLIP 0.42
#include "apbr_core.fx"

Note:
If you are interested in looking under the hood, you can open the apbr_core file and search for the define statements and see what code is being used.

Hope this explains the PBR shader use a bit better.

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Posted: 6th May 2018 16:32
Query! on PBR Textures... I have been trying to update some old FPSC models to PBR, however on checking all my maps
none come out with bar lines like in the image below



Am i missing something or is there a special program that you need to create the textures like this sample texture
from CityscapePBR barrel_explosive

here are my maps I have created in Bitmap2material 3.1


any help will be appreciated...



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OldFlak
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Posted: 7th May 2018 22:24
Those bars are created to stop neighboring sections of the UV bleeding onto each other and causing weird artifacts on the model at run-time - a problem that can occur when light mapping I believe.

Something like that - Belidos could easily explain it better

Anyhow, those textures are made using Substance Painter.

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Super Clark
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Posted: 8th May 2018 15:04
Thanks reliquia, i will have to look at getting Substance Painter.
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Belidos
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Posted: 8th May 2018 17:32
Quote: "So a list of .dds type for each texture.
Info on the pros and cons of using .dds and .png textures.
This kind of info will certainly help some, especially when starting out I am sure."


I would love to add that info, but i would need someone to explain it to me first, i'm not sure myself.

Quote: "Something like that - Belidos could easily explain it better "


To be honest i have absolutely no idea. It's something to do with padding between UV islands, but the exact details i don't know.

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Posted: 8th May 2018 17:40 Edited at: 8th May 2018 17:43
from a post I made a while ago, https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/219617

I was confused over this too, PNG are fine to use but DirectX utilizes DDS more efficiently just remember DDS is a lossy format the more you edit it and save it the more quality you lose, I export as PNG and when I am happy with the texture I export to DDS DXT1 for non transparency and DXT5 for transparent models. I am also sticking to 2048x2048 although some assets look perfectly fine at 1024x1024

PNG stores images in a compressed, lossless format that is optimized for storage on disk. DDS stores textures in formats that are native to the GPU, and hence optimized for GPU consumption. For PNG's to be useable as texture data, they typically need processing to convert to a GPU format, and possibly also create mipmaps. This can take some time if you have a lot of textures to load, particularly if you want to load them as a DXT/BC-compressed format so that they're optimized for GPU memory and bandwidth consumption. They will also need some manual processing if you want to load them as 1D, 3D, or Cube textures. DDS can store all of those formats natively, which means you can load them very quickly with little-to-no processing.

I did the preview orbs as PNG so that people could play with the textures and the quality of the previews orbs were high, I don't think anyone would use them in a game so thought it did not matter.

The 'padding' is When a game model uses a single texture sheet (Texture atlas) the image will have areas that are used for the textures and blank areas between them. The used areas are often called UV shells, and the blank areas are often called gutters.

When a game engine renders a scene it uses Texture filtering to smoothly render the texture, in a process called downsampling. If the gutters have colours that are significantly different from the colours inside the shells, then those colours can "bleed" creating seams on the model. The same thing happens when neighbouring shells have different colours; as the texture is downsampled eventually those colours start to mix.

To avoid this, edge padding should be added in the gutters between each UV shell. Edge padding duplicates the pixels along the inside of the UV edge and spreads those colours outward, forming a skirt of similar colours.

When the UV layout is created, the spacing between the shells should be done with edge padding in mind. If the gutters between the UV shells aren't wide enough, there won't be enough edge padding to prevent bleeding.
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Location: South Africa
Posted: 8th May 2018 19:17
When you export images from Substance Painter, you can choose the dilation setting (ie what happens with the spaces in between the UV elements). If you choose infinite dilation, you get that barring effect. You can also choose transparent, or background colour, and set the dilation amount manually (I usually set it to 8 pixels).
i5 2500k 3GB GTX1060 8GB RAM Windows 10

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