Product Chat / Done with gg for now - another project forced to quit.

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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 10:40 Edited at: 20th Jan 2018 17:29
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Until gg has this memory issues I cant continue with my game wich is why I am releasing it right now for free. I originally wanted to release it on steam but now it's just not complete.

I love gameguru and all but in it's current state its a mess and I doubt it will be fixed in a few months.
(ah yeah, bevore I forget. Yeah I know the current version is for testing. This is about the latest dx9 version. I dont use the dx11 version at all. None of my maps work with the public preview even though that was one of the main goals. "backwards compatiblity")
Also I like to mention that even the STOCK ASSETS dont work properly with lightmaps, I HAD TO EDIT THEM in order for them to work. STOCK MEDIA, no special ones just to mention. I had to edit EVERY fpe file otherwise the lightmaps wouldnt apply to the entities at all.. It's just a prime example...
There is so much wrong with gameguru and I see the priorities go in a completely different way. PBR is a complete waste of time in my opinion.

Sorry guys, but i will quit gg until it actually works. I am getting a new job anyway so I wont have much time left for stuff like this, wich is actually a good thing too lol. I will check from time to time for gg and its state but for now, you can take a look at my last project wich was too amitioned for the current gg version. LINK down below.

GG has a great community and some really lovely ppl here. I just hope it makes a turn somehow and actually starts to make use of its potential. There are so many features in fpsc that are not there in gg wich is completely crazy IMO.

This is just my opinion and I dont force anyone to agree with me.
I just had to get this off my chest. Thanks for hearing me out.

Sincerly, Duchenkuke



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Solar
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 12:34
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Hi Duchenkuke.

Sorry to hear that you are forced to quit this awesome project. I rally hope that the memory problems are sorted out in the near future, so that you can continue with it.

I am also worried that my game will be unplayable due to this same problem. I haven't tried compiling all my finished levels into a standalone yet, so I hope I don't run into the same problem.

I don't use lightmapping in my levels, only real time lighting, because my levels are mainly outdoors. So maybe it won't affect me so much.

Good luck with your new job and future en-devours.
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TazMan
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 12:36
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Why don't you release this out as an unfinished example of the complete game that you will be putting up for sale in steam when GG comes up to scratch for it, a sort of teaser with glitches, that way you wouldn't have wasted your time.

It seems a shame to have spent so much time trying to create a game that you intended to sell, only to give it away as an unfinished project.

I hope that GG, comes up to scratch for you soon.

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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 13:07
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Thanks guys. As said I will check for gg from time to time and this project isnt dead yet.^^

Of course I wanna finish it someday.

Quote: "Why don't you release this out as an unfinished example of the complete game that you will be putting up for sale in steam when GG comes up to scratch for it, a sort of teaser with glitches, that way you wouldn't have wasted your time."


yeah, when the time comes, why not!


Quote: "I don't use lightmapping in my levels, only real time lighting, because my levels are mainly outdoors. So maybe it won't affect me so much. "


Shouldnt be any problem then. Hope your good !
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science boy
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 15:43
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im in the same boat to be honest, even though i now have a side project isometric my main love and creation aka twin worlds is at a standstill for the moment my creativity comes from spontaneity within the moment. i ride it and it comes from inspiration at that popint. i cant just drop pick up etc. my flow needs to be constant to get my best out. so i have put it all on the back burner, for swimming like tomb raider or skyrim and an entire underwater level or part to my game is no go, and if water etc is getting a makeover whats the point of striving for make do hours and hours of work if it is to be scrapped and a better way comes in, it may be great for some but my time is precious so i would rather it be used wisely. not a whinge as i am just going to wait and i guess wait for progress on certain parts of the engine. then i will pick up where i left off if i have not lost total interest, which for 2 years i have. i only really started getting onto the engine since an inspired thread on isometric. but even then that has limitations so again artistic blocks... anyway as long as this engine stays o track and sorts its world out before leaning lefts and extra lazy buttons to make the software more lazy... which if it goes some ways we will have total no hickups on editor but no actual game schematics...... work that one out

anyway i feel your frustration
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Teabone
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 17:00 Edited at: 20th Jan 2018 17:08
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I'm having a lot of issues with each of my prototype projects. Each issue is different from the next and beyond my control. I have no idea where what the schedule is like for future builds. So I never have the feeling of comfort when it comes to game development within this engine. Currently I have to leave out large aspects of my game that I was excited about, due to bugs, instabilities and above all lacking functionalities within the engine of which I had expected to be here by now, 4 years later.

I liked how the latest public preview build looks with my projects as there are some visible improvements there. but its incredibly unstable for me and I'm really hoping that the shader issue gets officially fixed and patched on to the build so we can at the very least release it as a proper build and relieve some anxiety and just focus on game making and not the wait of a next stable build.

I think the biggest problem for me is I'm finally at the point where I would like to make full games with Game Guru and release to distributors. Its been a goal of mine with since I found out about The Game Creator products in the late 90s. I've learned modeling and LUA strictly for this task and It be a shame if it was all for nothing. I'm past the point of throwing my mouse all over the screen making bumps on terrain and feeling like I have accomplished something. I'm only here to make actual games now.

I'm certainly not dropping GG at this time. I'm having too much fun. But I just hope the issues dont start to prevent me from expressing my creativity or prevent me from creating a stable standalone. That would be unfortunate.
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Belidos
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 17:01
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The issue with the stock assets is a non issue, the pbr update is a preview of the work he has done so far, updating the stock assets is something he will do, but he won't do it until the pbr system and directx 11 are finished, you can't expect stock assets to work in the preview just yet, and you cant expect him to go through and fix them all before pbr/dx11 is finished, it would be pointless to do that because something might change as he worsk on dx11 and he would have to go back and do the mall again, I think some people are just expecting too much too quickly and in the wrong order, we're not testing the assets, we're testing the engine, the assets will come later.

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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 17:22
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Quote: "you can't expect stock assets to work in the preview just yet"


I dont even work with the new version...

I mean the old version with dx9. STOCK ASSETS did not work with the old version either !

Why do you see splinters of wood when you shoot at a STEEL barrel? There are so many things wich are just wrong!

If you don't make games and just use the editor here and there for fun, of course you can be patient and relax. But some people actually try to make serious games. And those people spend many hours to do that. I have over 1000 hours of gameguru on steam for example.

What about that Horror Game of yours belidos? You abandoned it? It looked great.
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Teabone
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 17:37 Edited at: 20th Jan 2018 17:51
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I just discovered a whole slew of problems with the stock assets and even the paid DLC ones (last night). Will make a new thread for that much later.

Quote: "Why do you see splinters of wood when you shoot at a STEEL barrel?"


I brought up this material index assignment issue mid year last year and it was not fixed or acknowledged. Simple FPE correction. I found dozens and dozens more. But yah I'll create a new thread for that and possibly work on some fixes (for a few).

Quote: "If you don't make games and just use the editor here and there for fun, of course you can be patient and relax."


Fact. I spend weeks fixing stock issues when I come across them. Which takes away from time in making my game. I can't really wait around for them to get fixed, knowing that may not ever happen, or will happen months to years from now. Which is very likely. I find it very difficult to post issues on the forum knowing that a lot of people are not here to make games for any serious purpose. Which i find can be really demotivating when they come about to silence you and tell you to relax and wait a couple more years.

So they just dont see the problems we have, especially if we have our own schedules for workflow and development. Its frustrating. But thats why I put the discord server together for people serious about game making with GG in the first place. So that we could figure out ways to work around issues that we can fix together and support one another. Knowing that it takes months to years for certain things to get done around here.

However when things like showstoppers crop up... it saddens me that they are not always taken into consideration because the number of users of Game Guru that are serious about game making are a fraction of the greater number of people who use it casually like its Minecraft. So for the few of us... our voices are not as important in the greater scheme of things.
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Belidos
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 18:41
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Quote: "What about that Horror Game of yours belidos? You abandoned it? It looked great."


Not abandoned, just don't have tie at the moment, things are busy at work and home, so i'm taking a break, haven't even made any models for a while now.

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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 18:48 Edited at: 20th Jan 2018 18:49
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Quote: "Not abandoned, just don't have tie at the moment"


yeah kinda my situation too. great tho. I hope you can release something playable some time.
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Wolf
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 21:04 Edited at: 20th Jan 2018 21:04
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Hi Duke!

Well, thanks for sharing your game, I'll be sure to check that out.

GG has many things wrong with it, we all know that very well and I am certainly also in the boat of holding off on projects until later in the year. I too have a lot of other matters that require my attention at the moment but you also point out something I vehemently disagree with.

Quote: "Why do you see splinters of wood when you shoot at a STEEL barrel? There are so many things wich are just wrong!"


The wrong material index (not shader related) is attached in the FPE.

Quote: "Also I like to mention that even the STOCK ASSETS dont work properly with lightmaps, I HAD TO EDIT THEM in order for them to work. STOCK MEDIA, no special ones just to mention. I had to edit EVERY fpe file otherwise the lightmaps wouldnt apply to the entities at all.. It's just a prime example... "


Are you absolutely sure this was stock media and not mega pack or legacy pack content? I am surprised you wrote "I HAD TO EDIT THEM" in all caps. Of course you did. If you intend to make a serious game as you stated you are not just going to expect making it dropping pre-made assets into the editor?
GG has a wealth of models from various artists and why it would have certainly been commendable for TGC to add shader maps and polish their models and media to a standard beyond just basic usability its not entirely necessary. YOU are making the game after all so adding a line here and there and fine tuning things like the attached impact decal are to be a given. To me assets have always been more akin to "raw materials" that need to be bent to be what I want them to be rather than finished products. Or do you see this entirely differently?

Quote: "Sorry guys, but i will quit gg until it actually works. "


Haha! I let ya know when that happens

Quote: "There are so many features in fpsc that are not there in gg wich is completely crazy IMO."


Yes, that has been a main gripe for me for a long time now. I hope Lee has time this year to go over this.

As for holding off on projects. It was a new year resolution for me to never write out game ideas so big I could never complete them. With both me AND GG being only "semi competent" its time to brainstorm a game I really WANT to make that I also CAN make. But this will likely happen a few months down the line.



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granada
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 22:45
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If you haven’t already,you guys should download and play this one.although it’s not a finished project is still a good game to play.

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AmenMoses
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 22:52
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I did, got stuck between a fence and an invisible wall!

Found a gun and some ammo, found a vest, shot some guy wandering around, jumped over a fence and got stuck. Was there more to it than that?

Been there, done that, got all the T-Shirts!
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granada
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 23:03
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Quote: "I did, got stuck between a fence and an invisible wall!

Found a gun and some ammo, found a vest, shot some guy wandering around, jumped over a fence and got stuck. Was there more to it than that?"


thers a bit more to it than that .

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Teabone
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 23:12
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I like your new years resolution Wolf. Mine is to finish one of my game projects before the end of the year Maybe i should adopt the same rules to ensure thats feasible.

In terms of the stock stuff, I hope to do a fix for all stock items and DLC assets this year. If i have the time between work and my own game project. That might help with some of the people having issues with GG that are not showstoppers. Small details like incorrect material indexes and maybe create some normal and spec maps for the many that do not have any.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 20th Jan 2018 23:48
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Quote: "thers a bit more to it than that"


Found the ammo ...found the warehouse " Jump to next level Y/N "
" N " says I have decided to stay ... " Y " does nothing for me so I'm staying anyway by the looks of it
Impressive looking snow level though ..
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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Earthling45
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 00:21
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Press Z in order to proceed to the next level.

Duchenkuke, This is very good, do not abandon it!
I'm sure that the problems will be solved.
The beta has shown that we can expect a huge improvement in load times and general stability.
The memory is a problem which will hopefully be done after the release of the final DX11 version.

I've monitored my system while trying out your game, when the second level is loaded the memory usage is 3200 mb.
I did not manage to go further that level two, i'm not good at this type of games.

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granada
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 00:49
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Quote: "Press Z in order to proceed to the next level. "

Told you there was more there .

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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 01:12 Edited at: 21st Jan 2018 01:48
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Quote: "Told you there was more there ."

I know I have seen the screenshots ... Did I miss where it tells you to press Z to continue ?

Ok so the snow level was Graphically cool ... Then I pressed " Z " and Level 2 loaded ...
Oh Boy .. Complete and utter jealousy ... How did you get such a high graphical standard from GameGuru and it runs so smooth as a bonus.
fantastic work with so such detail and atmosphere .. I wouldn't be disappointed with GG at all In fact I would be planning the improvements with the next update .. Seriously Well Done !!
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Earthling45
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 02:44
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My two cents.

PBR is certainly not a waste of time, there are mountains of complaints about the graphics in GameGuru.
So the overhaul of the graphics engine and PBR is certainly an answer to those complaints.

But i would also change how GameGuru is presented, for instance, leave the demo games out of the product and offer some demo's as a free teaser on the store page for GameGuru on steam as a show case of what can be done with GameGuru.
That will end the possibility for anyone to make a profit on those demo maps while they inflict damage to this product.
It also is an opportunity to show the new graphical engine with pbr.
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Teabone
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 05:24 Edited at: 21st Jan 2018 05:38
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Doesn't PBR require more textures per model that are used in the memory? Wondering how this plays out in standalone builds with multiple levels? I have my doubts this has been tested as, standalones (full games) have not been on the priority testing field. Due to the smaller number of serious devs around compared to the casual.
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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 08:36
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Thanks guys for your comments and the positive feedback about my game. I really appreciate it !
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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 09:33 Edited at: 21st Jan 2018 10:33
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Quote: "I did, got stuck between a fence and an invisible wall!

Found a gun and some ammo, found a vest, shot some guy wandering around, jumped over a fence and got stuck. Was there more to it than that?"


yeah ... a bit more. Not that much tho..
Well looks like I need to tell the player where he is supposed to go.

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synchromesh
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 10:41 Edited at: 21st Jan 2018 10:49
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The only thing I don't like is the red screen ... That I would disable ..
But thats just me .
BTW...I would put the Video on steam ..
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 10:53 Edited at: 21st Jan 2018 10:57
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Quote: "The only thing I don't like is the red screen"


yeah... I dont like it either.

Quote: "BTW...I would put the Video on steam .."


Just did... but for what lol never mind
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 11:07 Edited at: 21st Jan 2018 11:54
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Well I'll have another go later and I'll even press 'Z' this time (why put Y/N if you mean Z or is this a localisation/keyboard thing).

So I've figured out that my name is Terence and I sound like Arnold. I also appear to be rather fragile, unlike Arnold, and the bad guys (or are they the good guys?) are not only a much better shot than me but they are also not as fragile and very alert.

This is one of those looks great, too linear, too difficult and GG's long loading times make it unplayable games.

I do like that the author has obviously spent a great deal of time positioning entities correctly, couldn't find any gaps or badly lined up segments, only a couple of plants that sink into walls and only a couple of entities sinking into terrain but that's actually not a bad thing in snow, probably could do with a few more doing it to add to the look.

I'm more a fan of the open world exploration/puzzle solving style, not really into the shoot everything that moves style.

Overall though it's definitely quite polished.

Anyone got a cassette tape loading sound effect from the 80's we could use for the loading screen?
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synchromesh
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 11:34
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Quote: " Just did... but for what lol never mind "

Well off the bat it looks to good to be GG
Im wondering what the reponses will be ..
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 13:49
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Quote: "Anyone got a cassette tape loading sound effect from the 80's we could use for the loading screen?"




I've opened the door for the cat, went to the store to buy bread, made coffee and read the newspaper.
By the time i finished reading the newspaper it was almost done loading.
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 15:40
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It looks amazing for GG! You've obviously spent a great deal of time and you certainly shouldn't give up on it. I would indeed get back to it when Lee fixes what's holding up your progress. I couldn't get past the second guy in the warehouse. I swear I got two bullets in his head before he got any in me, but there I was, dead every time. I mostly suck at these things, though. Great job, though, and thanks for the preview.
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 15:50
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Where did that shotgun in the video come from?
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 16:01
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Quote: "Where did that shotgun in the video come from?"


LOL, I didn't watch the video. Yeah, that would have been handy!
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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 18:47
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Quote: "I would indeed get back to it when Lee fixes what's holding up your progress."


thats my plan. But that will take a longer period for sure.

Quote: ""Where did that shotgun in the video come from?""


It lays right on that grey box on the ground ! You can pick it up. There are some medikits and weapons hidden in the levels wich make the game easier.
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 20:16
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Hi

Can someone explain what the memory issue(s) is with GG?

Is there a bug list being maintained somewhere for GG? I guess there must be otherwise BETA testing would be a bit pointless but it would be nice if this were available for the community instead of raising issues all over the forum which can be difficult to find.
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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 20:54
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Quote: "Can someone explain what the memory issue(s) is with GG?"


https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/219044

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Cylo
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 22:20
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So sad to hear.
When you say "The easy game maker" and you mean the opposite at this time, because of all that mess.
I don't really want people to give up on nice projects.

Please just raise your voice (or better, our voice) to obtain GG what it needs and deserves, it really never started to work out for what it's born for, it's still like in an eternal Beta.

I just strongly hope the next upcoming update will be the real deal and from that, we'll be asking for new features only, and no longer BEGGING for SIMPLE THINGS to work.
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Belidos
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 23:08
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Quote: "When you say "The easy game maker" and you mean the opposite at this time, because of all that mess.
I don't really want people to give up on nice projects."


The tag line "easy game creator" will be changed to "game making for everyone" with the next update, so people can stop using that as an excuse to moan then :p

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Cylo
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 23:31 Edited at: 21st Jan 2018 23:33
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Quote: "The tag line "easy game creator" will be changed to "game making for everyone" with the next update, so people can stop using that as an excuse to moan then :p"


And it would be still wrong, LOL!

Not "everyone" has that patience to work around everything, and go crazy to make a simple level to work properly and make a SIMPLE decent game. It should just work and be able to do what it was meant to do, nothing more, nothing less.

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Teabone
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Posted: 21st Jan 2018 23:42 Edited at: 22nd Jan 2018 18:32
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Quote: "Is there a bug list being maintained somewhere for GG?"


I think Lee gave mention to a future Bug Tracker feature for the website/forums. Not sure when that may come about. All we have now is our bug reporting section and i believe its only the mods that determine if something is solved or not, presently.
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Honkeyboy
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2018 00:10
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Standalone needs sorting if it runs in the editor correctly it should compile correctly and run from the .exe exactly the same ATM it doesnt, I build a standalone to test this every level....needs sorting...nuff said :/
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Teabone
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2018 18:39 Edited at: 22nd Jan 2018 18:42
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Can we confirm that the memory issue is directly related to the lightmaps generated? I've heard of people running as many as 15 levels in their standalone (without lightmaps), without issue. Wondering if others have experienced this issue with their games that do not use lightmaps.

What makes this game really stand out is the lightmaps. But could also be what is not being cleared from memory level to level. someone might have to test this theory out by creating a standalone with many maps with and without lightmaps for comparison. Though that could take a day or two to render all those maps.

Quote: "Standalone needs sorting if it runs in the editor correctly it should compile correctly and run from the .exe exactly the same ATM it doesnt,"


This is because the memory between multiple levels in a standalone build are not being fully cleared when loading each new stage. So it starts to cap and prevents the player from advancing. I believe an error actually pops up.
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Posted: 22nd Jan 2018 21:16 Edited at: 22nd Jan 2018 21:23
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The chess script filled my vram completely, 4gb used.
Mookay also said that it is not directly related to the lightmaps because he does not use them but he also experienced a crash when reaching a certain level.

Edit: also you could try this stand alone file with ten levels which are not lightmapped.
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