Product Chat / Thoughts and suggestions request on Public Preview

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Cylo
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2017 11:57 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2017 16:02
OK guys, I'll tell you short and clear.
I've been waiting for this update for so long to complete and release a game I've been working on since the last year. I really need to release it, most probably F2P but I need to do it. I've been working hard on the story and buying lots of assets, hiring voice actors and more. I chose GG because it's honestly the quickest tool for me working alone.

That said, I've been trying the Public Preview out, and I DO like performance improvement, but it's really buggy.
I have to remove some AI bought on the store. Also, my models are almost totally black textured, so I set pbroverride to 0 and kept using them. BUT, when I lightmap under this version, it's a total mess, with crazy shadows printed on buildings, some things partially disappearing, and a strange "fishnet" on stock terrain. Disabling shadows doesn't solve this, and OFTEN game test crashes while editing setting tabs.

Now tell me: is there something I can do to workaround and save my tons of assets to keep going? Or, if I wait for a final release, will it still be a long wait?
I don't want to build it under the previous GG version because it's too slow, but public preview has this kind of huge problems and I'm seriously trying to find a way to go.

Thank you all.
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Belidos
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2017 12:12 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2017 12:13
It's a public preview of SOME of the work he has done so far, it's not a final product, and will have bugs, most of those bugs aren't actual bugs, but things that aren't working because he has left something out of the preview while he still works on it. One of those things is light mapping, it doesn't work because he hasn't added it all yet.

It is not intended as a release, there are no work arounds because it has not been finished yet, it is not intended for you to use it to release a game yet, it's just a glance at some of the things he is working on.

In short, you are not supposed to be releasing games with this version, its basically still a beta test, it's there so more people can report issues for him to fix.

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Posted: 22nd Dec 2017 12:26
Quote: "I'm seriously trying to find a way to go."

Hold on till the update is finished ..
As stated its a preview and trying to update your game with it now would probably be a huge mistake ..
So much more is likely to change before an official; release ..
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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Cylo
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2017 16:04
So you're saying it's just about to wait.

Because AI fixes - promised for the next big update - haven't been done yet, preview is only about graphic engine.
I still wonder by the way, as asked above, if it will still be a long wait for the final release.
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Belidos
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2017 16:08 Edited at: 22nd Dec 2017 16:11
What exactly isn't working with your AI? Because it's working pretty well for me.

If it's only AI from the store, then that's probably your problem, the AI system was changed quite a while ago and some of the AI models in the store need to have their scripts updated, that is down to the artist that created them (the store is not TGC's store any more, and all the models in it are third party and not owned or created by TGC), you won't get a fix for them from Lee or any update, only the creator of the models can do that, you need to contact them via the messaging system on the store.

As to how long it will take for the update to be finished, how long is a piece of string? This is a major update, a complete rewrite of the core graphics rendering system, we knew gong in it would take a while, and so far it's amazing how much Lee has done in such a short time, it might be a while yet, but it's worth the wait.

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synchromesh
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2017 16:37
Quote: "AI models in the store need to have their scripts updated"

Actually after the last AI update all BSP characters were awful .. I deleted them from the Purchased folder and re downloaded..
To my surprise they were spot on ... could be worth a try
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Teabone
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Posted: 22nd Dec 2017 19:51
As mentioned above use the previous version of GG or wait till the new year for the later version -- before releasing your game.
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Cylo
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2017 00:13 Edited at: 23rd Dec 2017 00:38
Quote: "What exactly isn't working with your AI? Because it's working pretty well for me.

If it's only AI from the store"

No, not from the store.

I'm talking about a few AI issues I reported to Lee this summer and are yet to be fixed, he answered he was going to include them in the next big update, especially for zombies that are literally broken at the moment.

Also, I've seen strange behavior in the latest version of The Big Escape, soldiers take strange paths sometimes while following me and one of them suddenly went direct on a mountain.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2017 00:55
Quote: "I'm talking about a few AI issues I reported to Lee this summer and are yet to be fixed, he answered he was going to include them in the next big update, especially for zombies that are literally broken at the moment."


whilst still coding the DX11 and optimisations it would be sensible to leave AI till last even though I have noticed he's been dabbling with it .
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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Belidos
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Posted: 23rd Dec 2017 19:39
Quote: "I'm talking about a few AI issues I reported to Lee this summer and are yet to be fixed, he answered he was going to include them in the next big update, especially for zombies that are literally broken at the moment."


Zombies are working perfectly for me at the moment, I had pathing issues on live, which Lee fixed quite early on in the beta, and they've been working fine ever since.

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Cylo
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Posted: 24th Dec 2017 14:08
Quote: "Zombies are working perfectly for me"

hum... no.

I just tried and... no.

BTW he's fixing since this summer.
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Belidos
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Posted: 24th Dec 2017 15:53 Edited at: 24th Dec 2017 15:54
Well, they're working fine for me, no idea why they're not working for you.

Can you please detail exactly what you are seeing that is wrong with them?

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Cylo
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Posted: 24th Dec 2017 16:34
They often fail to follow the player, or remain stuck in a square foot, and suddenly stop or turn away from you and don't see you anymore.
I don't know why you say they're working "perfectly", I always see the same issues as stated above. And I'm not the only one.
Also, there is an issue I specifically reported to Lee for zombies range of view that goes through the wall and they can hit you from the other side, as recorded in a video like this, a very simple scenario with one zombie.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8jvzas9m6ck1i7v/Video%20and%20level.zip?dl=0
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Belidos
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Posted: 24th Dec 2017 17:33 Edited at: 24th Dec 2017 17:37
Quote: "I don't know why you say they're working "perfectly", I always see the same issues as stated above. And I'm not the only one."


Because they are working fine for me, I'm not seeing any of the issues you are reporting any more (apart from them hitting through thin walls which has a work around), I used to get them, but since one of the early betas it has stopped doing that for me, maybe they just haven't been included in the public preview yet, but in the beta they are working for me.

Try deleting your zombies (or just move them away from your entitybank) and deleting your ai scripts and the ai folder in scriptbank (or just moving them away for now to test) and verifying your client again, see if that makes a difference, it may be that the update hasn't updated your ai scripts or zombie files.

As to them seeing and hitting through walls, that's probably not an AI issue, the walls are probably too thin for them to register, it does it in both unity and UE with thin walls, and to avoid you can mark out areas the AI can't step out of or atatck out of, which is also something you can do in GameGuru, there is a floor zone for AI you can put down to stop them getting too close to walls etc.

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Cylo
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 10:50 Edited at: 25th Dec 2017 10:52
Quote: "As to them seeing and hitting through walls, that's probably not an AI issue, the walls are probably too thin for them to register, it does it in both unity and UE with thin walls, and to avoid you can mark out areas the AI can't step out of or atatck out of, which is also something you can do in GameGuru, there is a floor zone for AI you can put down to stop them getting too close to walls etc."


It is a bug indeed.
I showed that video to Lee and he said it was useful and was going to be fixed in the next one.
If you notice, they're also doing strange stuff going out of the room when I'm too close to the wall and coming back when I step on the left, and it goes on forever.
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Belidos
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 11:14 Edited at: 25th Dec 2017 11:20
Quote: "If you notice, they're also doing strange stuff going out of the room when I'm too close to the wall and coming back when I step on the left, and it goes on forever."


I can't watch your video because i'm not downloading a random file from dropbox, sorry. But do you mean the issues I was having in this video here?



If those issues are the ones you are talking about, then yes they have been fixed, at least after Lee said he had fixed them they started working fine for me on the beta, and still are. So if you are still getting them issues, the only thing I can imagine that would be the problem is that your AI scripts didn't update, so try deleting all your AI scripts (including those in the AI folder) and verify your files to re-download them.

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Cylo
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 12:24 Edited at: 25th Dec 2017 13:15
Quote: "because i'm not downloading a random file from dropbox"

So you won't be infected by a nice trojan I put in the zip file. Too bad.
Quote: "do you mean the issues I was having in this video here?
"

Yes these ones, too.
Maybe the beta you are using, being different from public preview has a different AI set?
I'll try redownloading AI files too.
But Lee said they were for the next big update, and since then, only public preview came out, that's why I think it's different in beta version.

BTW here's the video.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fi4gjjz97qqt1p2/CuteScreenRecorder-1344-840_%28new%29%5B1%5D.wmv?dl=0
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Wolf
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 12:49
Quote: "OK guys, I'll tell you short and clear."


Me too! Your only option will be to wait for the update to mature into the full release (and hope that its actually stable then).
Just let your game sit there and wait for that. Can we see some screenshots from your project?



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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 13:24 Edited at: 25th Dec 2017 13:27
I'm using the latest beta so I did an isometric view to see what I'm getting ..
Very pleased actually ... Relentless zombies with no problem traversing a maze
In fact turning Debug Mode on made it pretty Jerky and more unstable ..

The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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granada
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 14:31
Quote: "Relentless zombies"


You not kidding .

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Belidos
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 17:23
Quote: "But Lee said they were for the next big update, and since then, only public preview came out, that's why I think it's different in beta version."


That's the thing. The preview is not the big update, it's a preview, it's not complete, it's just a taster, call it a demo, of what he has done with the render engine and pbr so far, you need to wait for the proper release before you will see everything.

Quote: "Maybe the beta you are using, being different from public preview has a different AI set?"


Maybe, i'm not sure whether he has released everything to the preview or left some stuff beta only. But definitely try downloading all the AI scripts again, and maybe even all the characters, it could just be an update glitch. As I said, zombies have been working fine for a few beta versions for me, and as syncro shows above they're working for him too.

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Teabone
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 20:02 Edited at: 25th Dec 2017 20:05
I find the zombies are very well refined. The latest Game Guru version actually seems to improve them even more.

For instance a caged off zombie would show how bugged out the AI used to be. But now it works perfectly normal (for me):



In past versions using this same experiment the zombie would just stop moving all together or get completely stuck.
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 22:01 Edited at: 26th Dec 2017 17:04
Quote: "The latest Game Guru version actually seems to improve them even more.

...

In past versions using this same experiment the zombie would just stop moving all together or get completely stuck.
"


@Teabone, are you talking about beta?
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Cylo
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Posted: 26th Dec 2017 16:41 Edited at: 26th Dec 2017 16:51
@Belidos

I deleted the entire scriptbank and re-downloaded all by integrity checking.

But zombies are still a total glitch (at least the ones using ai_fastzombie script).

So... I am still thinking that it's ONLY the beta that was fixed.
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MooKai
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Posted: 26th Dec 2017 22:36 Edited at: 26th Dec 2017 22:37
The zombies are updated. They are good now, not perfect but good.
Hey zombies are stupid... And for that they work well, even large groups of them.
Lee fixed it a few months ago.
Old school FPS fan, DOOM!!! Why GG not working on my AMIGA 500?
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Cylo
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 11:06 Edited at: 27th Dec 2017 11:07
Quote: "The zombies are updated. They are good now, not perfect but good."

Ok, but you mean in beta?
I'm having the same issues others are reporting, still now.


Quote: "Hey zombies are stupid"

Yes, but they don't have to stop moving or remaining stuck in an invisible wall.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 11:14 Edited at: 27th Dec 2017 11:14
Quote: "I'm having the same issues others are reporting"

Are you only trying your old legacy map..
Have you tried a brand new level test for example to see what happens ?
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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Cylo
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 11:19 Edited at: 27th Dec 2017 11:21
Quote: "Have you tried a brand new level test for example to see what happens ?"

Yes, empty terrain with only a zombie. Same results.

Still using public preview.

The "cage experiment" Teabone posted, didn't work for me.
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Cylo
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 11:32
P.S.
I can confirm that slow zombies are doing better, but "fastzombie" AI is still having those issues.
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Belidos
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 11:51 Edited at: 27th Dec 2017 11:52
That is very strange, MooKai and myself have been very vocal, and both communicated heavily with Lee over the zombie issues, and we're both experiencing much better performance (not perfect, but i doubt it ever will be perfect) from them. It has to be either something not updated properly with your files, or as we surmised earlier maybe preview is a different build to beta.

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Wolf
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 12:38
So no screenshots?

Quote: "I've been working hard on the story and buying lots of assets, hiring voice actors and more"


That makes it interesting! C'me on
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 12:43
@Cylo

Try to lower the speed of the zombies that use the ai_fastzombie script to something like 200. I think their default speed is like 600 or 800. That makes them act weird sometimes.
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Cylo
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 13:16 Edited at: 27th Dec 2017 13:31
Quote: "That makes it interesting! C'me on "

Hehe... there's nothing special about levels to post, at the moment. If I did, it would only be more dejavu of dark city streets and building interiors with bloody scenes.
I'll be posting gameplays and a full trailer at right time, when it will be almost ready to release. For this I'm desperately needing GG HQ stable version. And I think I'll have to cut much parts of what I tought to avoid it taking too long.
Also, it will most likely be Free2play for whoever wants to play it.



Quote: "That is very strange, MooKai and myself have been very vocal, and both communicated heavily with Lee over the zombie issues, and we're both experiencing much better performance (not perfect, but i doubt it ever will be perfect) from them. It has to be either something not updated properly with your files, or as we surmised earlier maybe preview is a different build to beta."

Oh, I'll never expect zombies to be perfect. They are idiots by definition.
I just want them to follow and attack the player until they're "alive", for a survival experience.
Only avoiding having them stuck or walking nowhere doing "step and stop" like crazy robots, that would ruin the game.


Quote: "Try to lower the speed of the zombies that use the ai_fastzombie script to something like 200. I think their default speed is like 600 or 800. That makes them act weird sometimes. "

I'll try this too. Even tough at the time, fast zombies are totally useless to me because they hardly move.

Edit: Ok, drastically reducing their speed makes them acting less strange, I think fastzombie entities speed should be reduced by default to improve the situation. Sometimes they still hit me trough a wall when I step behind it, and they can stay stuck into it, but it makes them less crazy.
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 17:41
@Cylo

Hehe! Those zombies can sure act strangely sometimes! But overall it's a much better AI performance overall, I think.
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Wolf
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 19:39
I see! I can very well understand that. I'm sure to keep an eye on your game! We need some more decent GG releases.
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 19:50 Edited at: 27th Dec 2017 19:53
"I can confirm that slow zombies are doing better, but "fastzombie" AI is still having those issues."

use the script from the fat/slow zombies name "ai_zombiewalk3" reduce the speed to 100 or 120... then the fast female zombies work fine most of the time.
they still do sometimes crazy things, but they move and attack the player.
btw. to keep the performance up, turn off the physics from the zombies... (if u use a lot of them)

"That is very strange, MooKai and myself have been very vocal, and both communicated heavily with Lee over the zombie issues"
Ha Ha Ha I guess Lee is happy now, that I'm silent at the moment and don't have something to complain about his Zombie AI ... again...

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synchromesh
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 20:15
Personally I'm not keen on running zombies .... hurrying dragging a leg maybe .. But zombies don't run as a rule .
Not like those anyway
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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Teabone
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 20:18 Edited at: 27th Dec 2017 20:23
Quote: "
@Teabone, are you talking about beta?
"


Public Preview. I unfortunately dont recall what exact zombie script i was using though. But whatever one is by default linked to that female zombie.

I agree with synchromesh that my preference is also slow zombies too. Unless I was trying to recreate 24 Days (Weeks) Later .

The zombies need some improvements in their behavior. I'm considering reworking the scripts myself. I was able to fix a lot of issues with the fantasy characters. However things like pathfinding and the chase logic i dont think i can fix. But currently the zombies are working okay for me in the Public Preview.
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 20:23
I just tried the 'Fast Zombie' in a test map and it moves really fast . The speed is set at 600 so I reset it to 200 and it's perfect . The 'Slow Zombie' is set at 100 so it runs(walks) at half the speed of the 'Fast Zombie' . I too see no problem ......... This is an easy adjustment .

I am disappointed that there isn't a compete game included that I could put my name on and sell it as my own without doing anything at all ..
G G is moving in the right direction .........
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Teabone
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 21:58
Quote: "I am disappointed that there isn't a compete game included that I could put my name on and sell it as my own without doing anything at all ..
G G is moving in the right direction ......... "


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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 27th Dec 2017 23:03
Quote: "I am disappointed that there isn't a compete game included that I could put my name on and sell it as my own without doing anything at all"


I suppose you could just stitch all the demo levels together and call it a game. It would be totally incoherent and would require a little work to get the levels to load in order, but you could do that, lol. Please don't!
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Joined: 11th Apr 2017
Location: South Africa
Posted: 27th Dec 2017 23:59
Hehe! The zombies seems to be sorted in DX11, but the only problem now is with the normal ai_soldier script, they seem to be shooting through walls at you! I don't recall giving them super x-ray vision!
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granada
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22
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Joined: 27th Aug 2002
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: 28th Dec 2017 01:44
I think AI improvements is the next logical step for GG after this update ,but we will have to see what the voting board brings.

Dave
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synchromesh
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Joined: 24th Jan 2014
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 02:11 Edited at: 28th Dec 2017 02:12
Quote: "Hehe! The zombies seems to be sorted in DX11, but the only problem now is with the normal ai_soldier script, they seem to be shooting through walls at you! I don't recall giving them super x-ray vision! "


Try small's Combat Module and replace yours in Scriptbank / AI
Backup the original first but I found this better ?
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/219140#msg2592855
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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Solar
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 15:05
@Synchromesh - Thank you, I'll give that one a try.
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Cylo
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 21:15 Edited at: 29th Dec 2017 15:59
Quote: "I just tried the 'Fast Zombie' in a test map and it moves really fast . The speed is set at 600 so I reset it to 200 and it's perfect . The 'Slow Zombie' is set at 100 so it runs(walks) at half the speed of the 'Fast Zombie' . I too see no problem ......... This is an easy adjustment . "

Not only moving too fast. They are buggy when speed is set to 600 and often they fail to run at you.
200 is good.

Quote: "I am disappointed that there isn't a compete game included that I could put my name on and sell it as my own without doing anything at all"

[ MOD EDIT ]

Please to not post foul language even abbreviated
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