Is it possible to have infinite visual water? Like in FPSCx10?

In GG if you were to place the start marker or test game at the corner of a map and look beyond the playable area, all you will see is sky. Even below the player. In FPSCx10 we had infinite water which allowed for better design for islands and distant visuals. It also animated and reflected beyond the playable area due to the shader.

Is there a way to enable this?

FPS Creator 10


Game Guru

I thought I had an answer but it doesn't work directly in the corner ...
As far as I know there is no way to do this ..

Not with the default water. I have asked for this also in the past. The ability to extend the water beyond the map size to avoid this sort of thing.

If you could use a textured plane or model for a water effect you could theoretically get it positioned beyond the map area by it's sheer size and so create a false water effect. Unfortunately, I've never managed to get a plane to look like water I'm sure some shader expert might have more luck though. It would be better of course if GG could simply give the option for a bigger ocean. I'm sure it would not dramatically impact FPS to make the water plane bigger.

On the subject of water. Anyone remember Lee talking of having streams and other more varied water effects ages ago? That would be a nice addition if we could make individual water boxes or stream type paths. Having a stream/river tool would be pretty cool

"That would be a nice addition if we could make individual water boxes or stream type paths. "
That's what we really do need . On the vote for features list it didn't get many votes . I thought by now we would have a good 'map editor' but most voters want AI stuff which is needed but now we ended up with a 1/2 finished 'map editor' (as far as I'm concerned) ...

Lance

This has been requested a lot, i'me sure it will come at a future date (i hope) .

Dave

I have a few and maybe I'll try placing them at the corners and scaling up ridiculously big. Just disappointed there still to this date are some things in FPSCx9 and FPSCx10 left out of consideration.

Yeah, I would like to see something on those lines as well. It would make it much easier to create a sense of vastness to the environment when near the edge of the map.

Water boxes, stream paths... That would be cool!
We have been waiting for better water features since before the steam launch, so don't I won't hold my breath

To me it is just plain annoying that AI is a voteing board item, it should just be a core of the engine thing at all times.

We await many things that will make GG a game dev tool with the ability to create stunning levels - water at multiple levels being one, and volumetric particles, so you can make some realistic water vapours at the bottom of a waterfall for example, and great play content, like AI that is actually AI, fly plains, drive cars, and so many other things.

All we seam to be doing is rewriting the engine, and adding half bake features that make GG less fun to work with (16 textures?) and seemingly simple things like the OP request just get pushed aside......

Errmmm sorry for the rant, but I am with Rolfy, everthing is taking toooooo long ( another thread )

Reliquia....

I'm only guessing here .... But because Classic and X10 were really indoor engines the outside could simply be water
However with GG really being and outdoor engine with terrain etc to manipulate it just had to be done differently ?
Lee has already separated the land from the sea ( in the setup.ini ) ready for water planes etc so why don't we just make it the next big vote

Good idea. Results:



Animates and reflects a lower res version of a sky. I have not tested material index assigning for splash sounds and debris. Its a work-around for now. Thanks for the idea.

You can take this solution and push it even further by disabling the player terrain boundary check and periodically recentering the water plane under the player position.

This then allows a completely open/endless sky game level to be made in that the player can fly a vehicle anywhere beyond map boundary.

The same principle can be used for flat terrain and an endless terrain is possible - populating it is another issue

I'm using this approach in cogwheel and am dynamically moving flying islands and outposts way beyond map boundaries so player has to fly airships to them whilst fighting flying enemies and such.

It genuinely works really well - there is no multiple map loading, the 'open sky' feels just that. I've tested a flight for two hours beyond map boundary and the engine has still held together - I was amazed.

It has taken a long time to also wrestle the player control into allowing the player to swim and dive anywhere under this false ocean layer too but can be done (so if at any point player falls or jumps off airship or island they can swim in the ocean anywhere beyond existing map boundary).

Some of these I guess quite advanced features that can be coded in are not promoted too well maybe?

Cheers.

that is a genius idea. Similar to the snow and rain boxes. I'd have to just make it ignore the players y position so the water doesn't move up when he jumps or climbs anything.

Amazing results

Add some fog and decrease "camera distance" ..that should do it. Having camera distance set to 100 usually creates a lot of lag anyway.

So because I'm using many many objects that follow the player, while this is a work around, its a mess in the editor. The whole lock entity thing doesn't work well to dig beneath layers to find entities. We really need an entity finder that allows you to find an entity on your map and get right into its properties. I noticed this is on the feature voting board. But very far down the list.

Hopefully when we start improving the water controls we can also get an infinite water plane option like we had in FPSCx10? Cause right now its very difficult using this workaround with other complex things going on like snow, rain and other special entities that follow the player.

twin worlds is on hold till environment issues like water infinite weather day and night etc is done. till then i am merely perusing. i lost all motivation and inspiration for game guru due to lack of scenery extras. when water and the like are sorted i will continue, till then i am watching.

@ Wolf. Fog is okay sometimes, but it really doesn't work to hide the edges of the map that well. It also limits your look as a bright sunny skybox does not look right with fog. How many modern games use fog these days for this? Not many I would imagine. Having a bigger water plane than the terrain would look way better and really would not hit FPS at all. An option to alter it's size would be very handy- even if it was a one off choice for the map never to be changed afterwards. Then you won't have to shrink your map down to a smaller size to allow for you to walk near the ocean and not spot the edges (even with fog and draw distance lowered).

@ Teabone I agree it's never good to have to work on a map when you have lot's of zones and locked objects around. I try to make the map as complete as possible before adding any waypoints zones etc as I know once there in I'm going to have issues. GG could do with some sort of layer system to hide those things out the way when editing the basic map. We may want to see the layers and objects/terrain when placing them down and editing them, but a way to simply hide the layer to work on the map would be helpful.

One area since the terrain update which is now worse than it was is the grass painting. The terrain textures turn off as soon as you go into painting grass, which is a pain if you have drawn a path to follow. Same if you paint terrain, the grass vanishes while you do it. I just hate terrain painting completely now I'd say this year is the quietest I've had with GG since it was first launched. I just lose interest with each little change being made of late. I hope the DX11 direction makes GG fun for me again. Not getting my hopes up too much though

@Science boy. I can understand it, I'm at an impasse myself. Spent months getting my WIP project optimised to run okay only for the next update to break it. We need GG to get to the point where you can say okay I'm getting this game done. No updates at all until it is. At the moment it just isn't ready for the commitment of time needed to make a game. Those months I spent are pretty much wasted now, I doubt I will ever return to my WIP. Once a project gets too cold I just can't go back to it.

We need the engine to be finished up or at least mostly finished, before other extra bells and whistles like multi-player are added. I was against it when it was first added anyway. It just seemed an extra point to help sell it at the time. It back fired as far as I can tell because many expected the multi-player to be working 100% from the get go and it certainly wasn't - no surprise to us Reloaded owners who had been shouting it isn't ready for Steam over and over. I considered multi-player that can't be supported by a stand alone game was a waste of time. Again, I think it was a case of seeing Steam supported it and adding it to add a bullet point to the feature list. Here we are now in 2017. The main engine is finally being updated and so made up to date (almost, we have DX12 and Vulcan around now) but it still is nowhere near complete and the multi-player is the same as when released or possibly worse (not tried it since the Steam launch really).

I think TGC went wrong when they went from early access to a full release. I think Steam opinions would be less harsh than they are today if TGC had left it longer. Prison Architect is a good example. It was on early release for ever, but still sold well. People see GG as a full finished product then get it only to find it isn't. People would be more accepting if it was an early access product. Too late now though, the damage is done and can only be rectified by getting GG working better for those that still use it and for people looking to buy it.

Small rant over

I hear ya dvader.

There is a lack of enthusiasm at the moment and a lot of people have vacated here. I like to see whats happening but we have a product that appears to jump to the latest fad or jumps to another un needed extra. Builder is pants no one is really usimg it that much to.my knowledge. All them building creator people where are you. Creating full games? Thought not. Why because you dont have a functioning game world. And so thanks again on that guys. And so we wait again and again for veg and sky, night and days etc etc. Which is as important as fads. It is like game guru is an easily distracted engine jumping and leaving things, getting told off and going back to the original needed stuff, to then stray again by something shiny, So really it was all done wrong again. Will people ever learn? It needs to after this, focus on the game world and ai and things to make a game. Not an extra side order of a shiny editor etc.

Rant over lol

I have created a pretty good working weather system. There is also a few I believe on the store that others have made. However night and day is not entirely possible as you cannot change the skybox in game yet. I believe its on the voting board.





I was hoping GG would one day have a drop down for "View"

Hide/Show Entities
Hide/Show Grass (at the least the green painted areas)
Hide/Show Markers
Hide/Show Zones

It would be incredibly helpful. If Lee doesn't want to go the route of creating an entity search function in the engine. I'm assuming that would be more work anyways.

do tell teabone?

Regional based weather system with transitional behaviors between. I'll have to post a video sometime. Only thing i cant do is make the skybox change to match. Its seemingly incredibly similar to Bolt Action's weather script of which is on the store. So I dont think i have any plans to release my own since there is already one out there.

Game Guru really needs more improvements for sky and water. Since it bills itself as primarily an outdoor world editor.

Agreed. Water has long been asked for improvements, even when GG was FPSC-R. I even remember Lee's blog mentioning thoughts about streams and more advanced water options even back then. Changing the Skybox would have few uses as well.

Remember you can’t bye a Ford and expect to drive a Bentley,remember what we paid for GG in the first place.i still think we get our money worth and more .

Dave

I realise that. Still, I don't think the suggestions so far are unreasonable. Changing the Skybox shouldn't be that difficult and increasing the water plane size is again fairly straight forward. Were not asking for anything that would take all that long to implement in all honesty. Just suggestions for the future of GG

Lee did mention the improvements towards water and skybox. Improvements towards the water control system that bring back what we had in FPSCx10 and FPSCx9. But unsure of when they will come. Depends on the voting board I believe.

The FPCx10 The Water and Skybox control system was fantastic



In FPSCx9 you could even raise and lower the water in game via a few commands. You could also change their color in game too.

I have that to,I just think of GG as is and don’t compare .these improvements will come in time I’m sure.everybody thinks what they want in GG is the most needed (me included ).

Dave

Maybe I'm just getting old and i see by the years of service you lot have so are you lol, for me (and this is just my personal opinion) in any game engine GG being my favourite) I always look towards making a game with some content, yes i do get that people want graphics etc etc but does that actually make a good game IMHO no! I see 2d games doing well purly because of the content, interaction, inventories, classes, etc etc. For the most part i like the DX11 upgrade idea but thats mainly for speed not visuals as that side of things for me can be as pretty as you want, but its just another map (yes a pretty map) but a map non the less with no content.
The idea of extended maps or the illusion of them via water plains (yup works for me) lighting = totally needs looking at :/ but all in all the real content is missing.
Let me give you an example my kids who are now 15-21 spend like over an hour just creating the right character on some of thier games thats before even starting the game, then maybe the same again wondering what class etc etc never really mention the game as such just look how cool my character is? makes you wonder as to why GG atm isnt progressing quickly.
Get dx11 out of the way and concentrate on these types of content issues and maybe we can at least make something more interesting than a pretty map..think thats my bit over lol

I'd be interested in seeing how things go after DX11.

As for myself having paid 100 dollars as a gold pledger for FPSC Reloaded... than to be told by the community, "sorry that product doesn't exist" but keep my money; Is interesting. so my expectations were to always have what was in FPSC, transitioned to the current product. I even remember being told this once in the forums that it would happen. Might have been a way to keep me at bay from the Steam review page at the time lol So when I see strengths in FPSCx9 and FPSCx10 it does bother me from time to time. Having been from that era of even waiting for FPSCx10 to come out.

100% support Game Guru, but having it as my engine of choice, I expect it to be better than FPSC. (in many many ways it is.. but there are areas it still lacks in).

A quick example of why we would be better off with some sort artificial/ larger water plane and why fog does not help.

On top of a fairly high place. Default fog.

Same place with ridiculous fog settings.

You can clearly see the edge of the map in both pictures and the fog was set really low as you can see. Unless you set the fog so you can barely see your hand in front of your face, it just doesn't work from anywhere you can see the maps edge. Fog works fine in places when used well, but nothing really helps with high elevated positions, or of course the edge of the map. Having a far extended waters edge would at least let you give the illusion of being on an island.

With respect to Teabone's solution of using a reflective plane, it's not a bad idea.
I realize that a lot of this stems from the world of 'what we had in X10 vs what we have now'. I am not sure what technical or procedural limitations are causing this backup of ideas or implementations that simply aren't happening.

I still recall a day-night mode being shown on very early versions of reloaded demos. It was then nixed and we're stuck with what we have now, which is a sort of baked in sky system.

That said - I come from the old school (real old) of gamedev so I'm not used to infinite anything. In my eyes it's better to know your limitations than to have none; you can work around it intelligently.

For instance, when I designed my day/night & time of day/weather system https://www.tgcstore.net/product/30361 ,I did it with a clear understanding of what the engine was and wasn't capable of.
It wasn't capable of true dynamic lighting, a changing skybox, or any built-in time of day to speak of. It has a static sun on a planar surface. It's very limited in that respect. Still, I am happy with the results.

So in this regard i'd probably either build a skymap with a false 'water' bottom and sides or see if maybe I could talk rolfy into doing a spherical sky in the same vein. That would likely do the job at least in the short term. Or just use the old trick of building mountains with invisible walls to prevent walking over. So far though I have to say teabone's seems the most viable in terms of a community-created 'resolution'.

Who told you that ?
It was only renamed and at no time ever was it said Reloaded No longer existed.
We also got are original pledge value back in DLC and Steam Keys..
Call it GameGuru or Reloaded the product wouldn't be any different now as its the path the development went.

Unless you can tell me what Reloaded had that GameGuru is missing ?

I was told that within a week or two after the name switch that "any promises that were made no longer exist as this is not the same product". By forum moderators at that time. Then months later after much tension in the forums at that time Rich came in to say they will be adding all past presented features in the pipeline and past requested features would be added. Which included the FPSC mentioned ones at that time on the previous forums for FPSC Reloaded that were deleted off the site. Before the forum switch. He specifically said that all elements of FPSC would make their way back to FSPC-R eventually. Lee also followed up with this as well. There are some remnants of these conversions still on the present forums im sure.

We were also told that the Kickstarter failed "product" FPSC Reloaded is not the same product as Game Guru and that those presented features are not included as guarantees in the pipeline. It was a complete mess of chaos at that time as well and the entire forums was erased as this domain was created with the embedded forums. During the branding switch.

Basically on two different cases I was told FPSC Reloaded was not Game Guru. Then there was some backpedaling as a large amount of members from the forum transition were not happy. Was around the same time some mods lost their status or decided to leave the community. Uman would know about this time period and possibly rolfy. Things were just very tense back then and there was a lot of attempts to please all groups of GG users as there were multiple ones when the steam group came but for a short time there was some neglect for those supporting FPSC-R from between kickstarter and the internal pledge system. We were funding the development of First Person Creator which was intended to be a successor to FPSCx9 and FPSCx10 with all previous features and functionality included. Originally it was even voted on if FPSCx9 should be expanded upon or started from scratch. We were indeed told FPSC-R did not have to include the old FPSC elements by new community members and mods.

Jumping forward, ultimately after several TGC meetings the staff they got back to us to say all FPSC features would be added in later and then prioritized based on community feedback through the voting system. Which for the most part has worked out well. But many forgotten elements remained. Such as the infinite water and water modifications.

I should add that Lee did mention recently that water improves are added to the pipeline. This includes being able to modify the water plane via LUA and adjust its height. I'm assuming this is going to be around the same time as the missing FPSC elements of swimming gets included. There was a small discussion around that not long ago.

That is true.... and anything you pledged on the kickstarter you would "Not " have paid.

After Reloaded failed the kickstarter funding was found elsewhere and gold, silver, bronze etc pledging were added to raise more capital. It was said then that promises made in the Kickstarter did not apply with only limited funding.

But the Reloaded we did get is what you have now.
I agree all the features FPSC had should be added to GameGuru eventually as you say was stated