Bug Reports / AI movement zombies

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MooKai
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Posted: 1st Jun 2017 10:19 Edited at: 1st Jun 2017 12:07
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I've also some problems with the default scripts and characters.

Point A , 10 zombies. They follow me
Point B , 10 zombies, 8 move 2 not.
Point C , 10 zombies, none of them move...

It doesn't matter, if I place them all 30 on the map or if I use spawn points. Always the same, the last group not move.

Version. 2017-5-12
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smallg
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Posted: 1st Jun 2017 11:24
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is there supposed to be pictures or a video here? we can't really help without more information.
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Posted: 1st Jun 2017 12:06
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Not at the moment, I will upload one tonight.
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Posted: 1st Jun 2017 23:31 Edited at: 1st Jun 2017 23:39
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here is the video. even after todays update there's no difference.

video 2nd run with debug on


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smallg
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2017 00:43 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2017 00:45
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What happens if you run the level without the custom projectiles? (Remove or set all related entitys static completely and Just using the stock weapon system for testing)

P.s. nice to see it working in an actual level, if it is the cause of the issue I'm sure we can fix it
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MooKai
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2017 01:20
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I tried it with the stock weapons ( uzi & pistol soldier) same effect, after a while the zombies not move anymore.
Same happen if I use other characters as enemy (e.g. soldier) after a while they stop moving...

So, I think it's not the projectiles (stock fireball projectile with different fx decal (4)) .

Something happen after a while... maybe the zombie script, or they can not see the player anymore... don't know. Or too many counted dead zombies... or some other value overflow.

Have to try it tomorrow again.. 2am now
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Belidos
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2017 07:58 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2017 07:58
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Mookai, can you try saving that map as a standalone, and see if they still don't respond when playing it in standalone, a couple of people have reported that there is a bug with the test game and ai where it doesn't respond in test, but does in standalone.

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MooKai
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2017 08:08
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Hmmm... Good idea, I will try it when I'm at home. Thanks
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smallg
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2017 13:31 Edited at: 2nd Jun 2017 14:47
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Quote: "I tried it with the stock weapons ( uzi & pistol soldier) same effect, after a while the zombies not move anymore.
Same happen if I use other characters as enemy (e.g. soldier) after a while they stop moving..."

that's ok, it's just a quick way to test it's not that causing the issue as the objects are actually hidden and placed at the player's position while not in use, this can sometimes cause the player to count as hidden but if the AI responds the same then it's not that



edit; managed to recreate the issue and can't seem to find any fix for it, seems like the script is just broken... that's the trouble with trying to make a 1 script fits all, it's not really very possible... hopefully Lee knows his work better and will be able to fix it

now 1 more test for you, close GG and open setup.ini, find the line
Quote: "obstacleradius=18"

change it down to a lower value ( 8 is good i find but for testing purposes if you still have issues try a value of 1 ) and then close and save the file again, now open GG and retest your map.
this line causes all objects that create an AI obstacle to have larger or smaller outlines (the boxes you can see when using the debug slider), a smaller value creates a tighter box so the AI can get closer to the objects but may also mean more limbs clipping through walls etc.

if you find this line helps but doesn't completely solve the issue then to finish the process pick up and move any zombies that are still within the boxes when testing the level (the blood splatters can simply have their physics turned off if they're not already so the AI should ignore them)
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MooKai
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2017 15:50
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The blood, the stones and most of the trees have the phys off (performance). I will try both of your tips tonight at home
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MooKai
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2017 20:04
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@Belidos
saved it as standalone... same effect. still buggy.
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MooKai
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2017 20:39
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smallg,

how you know that? That the "obstacleradius=18" could be the problem.
at the moment it looks like that the problem is fixed with the value set to 1. (I'll do more tests)
amazing...
but I wonder, that nobody else had problems with that before... hmmm... or nobody used much enemies?

anyhow...

thank you both

If it will happen again, I will let you know.

lee know that problem?
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MooKai
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Posted: 2nd Jun 2017 22:26
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ah... forget it...
those scripts are just broken.
they not work (again).... I just placed 10-15 zombies all over the map, after zombie no. 4, they not move anymore.
maybe the script works perfect on lee's empty test map, but not with a map full of objects...

maybe the AI overhaul was finished too early...
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smallg
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2017 19:34 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2017 20:08
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edit: found the issue to be the AI logic is looping through all characters so if you have a lot of them it doesn't get to the higher/later ones fast enough to keep them updated, there needs to be more exits or conditions set in the core AI logic so it can check them off quicker (not related to the AI scripts, this would be behind the scenes).
here's some videos that show it off quite nicely, they almost do the conga




been testing this more and it seems there is an issue with the new AI system and how it handles (or rather can't handle) too many AI at a time.
it's not script related as the scripts work fine for multiple AI (and i even tried some custom scripts which i know work fine) but once you reach a certain number of AI it will just break for the rest (the first few will indeed still work normal)... unfortunately that number is actually quite low in a populated map.

wonder if lee accidentally added a hard coded limit to the number of characters

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MooKai
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2017 21:01
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Thanks for all your help smallg.
I've tried many things since yesterday to fix it. But I'm too stupid.
I guess, Lee have to edit his scripts or some parts of the core engine.

Maybe one of the problem is too many AIs on the map.
But I found another problem.

I placed only 5 Zombies on the map (map from the video), 2 of them worked fine.
The other 3 not. Because they were too far away from the player starting point.
Even I set them on "always active", no difference.

So, I think also the distance is a problem...
You can see the chicken walking around with no problem. (chicken from dagored).
So I used the chicken script, and the zombies run away from me. But it works also with zombies which a placed far away from the players starting position.

I also created a new map (with a lot of trees and buildings) with stock models only, same effect.

So problem could be:
- distance (far away)
- too many AIs
- a dense populated map (trees, buildings...etc)

Don't know if monday is a public holiday in the UK (or maybe Lee work?).
In Germany yes... oh then I lost 3 days ooohh

Thanks smallg


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smallg
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2017 21:08 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2017 21:09
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yh but distance doesn't seem to be a problem on a blank map, only if lots of objects, right?
it seems they don't appear to need to be characters or using the AI system as you showed earlier, i was just using characters to easier show the effect in real time while travelling the map, i believe the problem is just because of the loop being far too slow compared to what it used to be, perhaps a mistake when the AI got moved to the 2nd cpu core.

and no, monday is a normal day here
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MooKai
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2017 21:19
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yes, yes, on an empty map the problem not exist.
lee always use empty test maps, so he don't see what could happen on an "in development map"
so, the loop is too slow? maybe because it's a lua script and not fast c++ code?
I hope lee can fix it soon, I know he is busy with many things...

thank you again

I think for today, I can stop trying ... it will not work.


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granada
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Posted: 3rd Jun 2017 23:22 Edited at: 3rd Jun 2017 23:23
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I just tried a enemy character I imported into gg,works fine.they all spot me and start firing but that's it no movement just turn to face me .works with just one though.
(On the empty start up map )
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smallg
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Posted: 4th Jun 2017 00:43
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Quote: "I just tried a enemy character I imported into gg,works fine.they all spot me and start firing but that's it no movement just turn to face me .works with just one though.
(On the empty start up map )
Dave"

yes, that's expected
scripts work fine. its the AI system that doesn't work - so you can still get movement with MoveForward() or RotateToPlayer() etc but any of the AI commands such as AIGoToPosition() don't work.
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MooKai
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Posted: 4th Jun 2017 00:55
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The guru (lee) will fix it... hopefully soon HA HA HA
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synchromesh
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Posted: 4th Jun 2017 22:25 Edited at: 4th Jun 2017 22:31
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@Mookie ... Try this script ....
Its actually one of Smallg's older ones for Zombie Waypoints ( he may have forgotten about it but still works great ) but with no waypoints they just wander and attack you when your in range ..

Try it with the slow fat Zombie ... If it works I still have the fast Zombie version also
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MooKai
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Posted: 5th Jun 2017 01:08
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@synchromesh, thanks for the script.
I tried it first with a few zombies and it worked... tried it with a few more and the same effect appear.
The first 3-4 zombies walk around, but the next ones just stand around, walk animation & attack anim. is playing.
But they not move anymore, something in the c++ code must be buggy...
I think we've to wait for Lee

But thanks for your help & the script.


*I guess even with spawn points the bug will appear again...
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Belidos
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Posted: 5th Jun 2017 08:51
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Hmn, well if one group is working, then a second group isn't working, it sounds like an AI coding issue rather than a script issue, i have a couple of things to try, i'm not saying these will work, but otherwise i'm stumped, so it's worth a shot.

Probably best to try these in separate trials so if one works we know which it is.

1. Try placing a group down with all of them having the same name, then rename the second group to something else, we're looking to see if it's a name thing where only so many objects can contain the same name and script.

If that doesn't work:

2. Try creating a second copy of the AI script, rename it (make sure you rename the _init and _main parts too), use the original for the first group and the new script for the second group, we're looking to see if the AI system has a limit on how many entities can use the same script art once.

3. Now try both together.

Probably won't work, but process of elimination and all that

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Posted: 5th Jun 2017 10:32
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At the end of the day I think Ai is just Broken at the moment and we need to wait until Lee gets a chance to fix the problem .

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MooKai
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Posted: 5th Jun 2017 11:13
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@Belidos
I think I've tried that already on friday evening...

Created spawn group1, group2, group3... and I've copied already the zombie3 script and renamed it same you said... zombie3, zombie4, zombie5...
Still the same effect. Looks like the AI is broken.
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MooKai
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Posted: 5th Jun 2017 11:38
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For Lee,

Here's the requested test map.
The map contains only stock media, so everybody should be able to play it.
Follow the main route (left, left) kill the zombies, if you can... after a while they will stop moving.
The map contains a lot of trees and barrels and zombies.
It should simulate a real "in development map" which are normally very full of models. See my first video.

Thanks for your help.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 5th Jun 2017 16:34
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I have checked out the level and can confirm the Zombies all seem to lose brains after so many are killed. Thanks for helping me reproduce this issue!
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MooKai
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Posted: 5th Jun 2017 16:48
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No, I've to thank you for your hard work...
Have a nice day.


"Zombies all seem to lose brains "
Well, they are zombies....
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Belidos
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Posted: 5th Jun 2017 17:30
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Maybe we're not feeding them enough then

Seriously though, this seems to be effecting all characters for me, so please don't just look into the zombies only Lee.

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Posted: 5th Jun 2017 18:29
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I had a similar issue with the last lot of insects I did - once I got beyond about 50, smallg's RotateToPointSlowly function stopped working. The function doesn't use any of the official AI functions, so it might not be an AI issue (or it could be entirely unrelated - who knows? Not me).
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MooKai
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Posted: 5th Jun 2017 20:04
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yes right, not only the zombies have laziness problem.
Also the soldiers and classic characters...
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MooKai
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Posted: 8th Jun 2017 22:33
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Is there an estimated date when the bug is fixed?



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3com
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Posted: 9th Jun 2017 16:39
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Quote: "All A.I calculations now moved to a second core for improved performance"

As smallg pointed above, I think it has something to do.
If so, it has not easy fix.

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MooKai
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Posted: 10th Jun 2017 00:29
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yes, have to wait for lee to fix it...
I hope he find some time to do it.
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MooKai
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Posted: 17th Jun 2017 15:41
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looks like, that I can forget my release plan at the moment...
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Posted: 21st Jun 2017 13:29
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The poor AI is, in my opinion, the biggest downside to GG right now.
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MooKai
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Posted: 21st Jun 2017 21:14
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The new AI is good, better than before... but it's buggy at the moment
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MooKai
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Posted: 29th Jun 2017 00:04
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Ok, downgraded back to vers. Feb2017... the AI move, but sometimes jumps over trees and buildings... hmmmmm
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smallg
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Posted: 13th Jul 2017 09:38
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From the looks of the change log this will be fixed in the next preview update.

Quote: "Improved DarkAI time slicing to avoid skipping AI bots during intense scenes"
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MooKai
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Posted: 13th Jul 2017 19:08
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that would be great, maybe end of the month... who knows...
next week I'm in NY, so 1 week no GG.
using the feb2017 release version is ok, but sometimes the AI freakout and the NPCs run around like crazy and jumping over the buildings and trees...
looks funny. but I don't think that the players find that funny too.

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Posted: 16th Aug 2017 19:33
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Same issues I had, but sometimes I find similar issues even with FEW AI's.

And I must report another issue, often entities can hit the player THROUGH THE WALLS.
This one has to be fixed too...
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Posted: 16th Aug 2017 21:45
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Quote: "And I must report another issue, often entities can hit the player THROUGH THE WALLS.
This one has to be fixed too..."


From what I understand that's not actually a bug, apparently it's because the distance between the front and back face of the wall is not enough for the system to register it as solid.

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Posted: 17th Aug 2017 13:24
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Quote: "From what I understand that's not actually a bug, apparently it's because the distance between the front and back face of the wall is not enough for the system to register it as solid.
"


First of all, it IS a bug. Doesn't matter how much large the wall can be, it is an obstacle.

And I see this happening even with stock asset buildings, so...
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smallg
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Posted: 17th Aug 2017 15:03
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Quote: "And I must report another issue, often entities can hit the player THROUGH THE WALLS."

are you talking about ranged AI or melee AI?
bullets shouldn't pass through walls and if they do then it's because of the issue belidos spoke of, but it's possible melee can be connected through a wall as most scripts will just use distance as the calculation.
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Belidos
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Posted: 17th Aug 2017 15:51 Edited at: 17th Aug 2017 15:58
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Quote: "
First of all, it IS a bug. Doesn't matter how much large the wall can be, it is an obstacle.

And I see this happening even with stock asset buildings, so..."


No it's not. An entity has to be a specific thickness to be registered as solid and stop bullets/projectiles, that is how it is designed. It does matter how thick the wall is.

Yes some of the stock assets walls are too thin, that's just bad asset design, not a bug.

As Smallg also said, melee attacks may project through walls that are too thin too, that is because the AI has been written to work from a distance check, they don't use ray casting yet, again not a bug, their scripts just haven't been scripted to do what you think they should do.

We're waiting for Lee to so another pass on the AI scripts, but there's not really much more that he will do, the whole design of GameGuru is that they give us the basics which will only work so far, and if we want more then we have to write more, the LUA is mostly exposed and that's why the recent AI changes made the AI scripts modular, so it's possible for us to make the AI more powerful. Unfortunately that leaves those of us that just can't code left to rely on other community members to write scripts for them

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Cylo
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Posted: 17th Aug 2017 18:45
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Quote: "No it's not. An entity has to be a specific thickness to be registered as solid and stop bullets/projectiles, that is how it is designed. It does matter how thick the wall is.

Yes some of the stock assets walls are too thin, that's just bad asset design, not a bug.

As Smallg also said, melee attacks may project through walls that are too thin too, that is because the AI has been written to work from a distance check, they don't use ray casting yet, again not a bug, their scripts just haven't been scripted to do what you think they should do.
"


I mean, if the problem is that AI's attack from a distance check, they should control if there's an obstacle in physics. That would fix everything.


Quote: "We're waiting for Lee to so another pass on the AI scripts, but there's not really much more that he will do, the whole design of GameGuru is that they give us the basics which will only work so far, and if we want more then we have to write more, the LUA is mostly exposed and that's why the recent AI changes made the AI scripts modular, so it's possible for us to make the AI more powerful. Unfortunately that leaves those of us that just can't code left to rely on other community members to write scripts for them
"

I think that the beauty of GG is that it saves us a lot of work to avoid reinventing the wheel.
That's why coding LUA should be the last thing to do, maybe for some details you want to change.
It doesn't have the flexibility of popular engines, and too much coding work wouldn't be worth it, that's what it's made for, saving big steps to do and focus on the rest.
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Cylo
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Posted: 17th Aug 2017 20:50 Edited at: 17th Aug 2017 20:52
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Quote: "
are you talking about ranged AI or melee AI?
bullets shouldn't pass through walls and if they do then it's because of the issue belidos spoke of, but it's possible melee can be connected through a wall as most scripts will just use distance as the calculation.
"

I talk about melee, and always notice this with zombies.


Quote: "No it's not. An entity has to be a specific thickness to be registered as solid and stop bullets/projectiles, that is how it is designed. It does matter how thick the wall is.
"


Come on! Enemies can hit the player even through EBE walls!
This IS a bug to fix. Period.
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MooKai
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Posted: 17th Aug 2017 22:57
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"We're waiting for Lee to so another pass on the AI scripts, but there's not really much more that he will do, the whole design of GameGuru is that they give us the basics which will only work so far"

Well, the AI is buggy at the moment, hope he'll fix that.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 14th Sep 2017 14:53
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Yep, I will be fixing the AI issues reported direct to me before the next major update, and will be tested thoroughly as part of the beta process. Sorry for leaving you with a defective AI since May. If you have big AI concerns not yet addressed, feel free to email me directly at lee@thegamecreators.com with an FPM using stock assets and a step by step and I will ensure it gets resolved one way or another as part of the next (and probably biggest) release.
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MooKai
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Posted: 16th Sep 2017 23:27
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I've sent you a google drive link with my custom level, incl. all custom assets.
thank you for your good work.
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