Sorry guys but i thought this was what Lee was working on and then all of a sudden theres the new texture thing? Dont get me wrong i think its great but the AI doesn't work, doesn't follow waypoints i dont usually use these but i did this time and they just stand still waiting for you to walk up and hit them on the head with whatevers handy, I've had to delete all the waypoints off my maps just to get things to kinda work? Am i missing something here? Please give some instructions as to the new AI if it is actually working, and if it isnt why have we jumped past it? I'm confused :/

Dunno if this helps but Pirate Myke wrote this about AI

Send me a simple FPM with stock assets (not from expansion pack or DLC) and what you expected to see, and I will take a closer look. The AI does the things I had planned for the update, but if something is broken I will fix it as a priority. It could be the solution is a change of values, of script or it could well be a bug or additional LUA command is required. If you send me one issue to begin with, we can get that working for you and then move onto any other AI matters that concern you.

Yeah i did read that m8 but they dont patrol the waypoint they did on the last build but now they just stand there.
@ Lee carnt m8 all my maps are custom assets although they use the stock AI soldier they work with no waypoint but just stand still otherwise, lol you know i dont use many stock assets rofl All my AI is fuse created with custom clothing e.g

I think it would be cool if Lee spent this month going over the last 2 updates working on fixes to get things finalised for the updates before moving on to the next one .

Dave

Just alittle confused as to how to get things working im sure Lee's got it right his end just dont know how to get it right my end. does that mean the AI is working? If so can we have a video please of how to set it up?

just tested, waypoints are working fine on all the stick characters, it must be something wrong with your custom characters. Are you using custom scripts with them?

The wife says that to me all the time .

Dave

No Belidos m8 and was working before just upgraded to the newest live and they stopped :/ its not a major issue as i now have put them behind sandbags. I just wondered if it was finished and it was something my end

That's odd mate, I've just gone through the stock models and they're all running around waypoints no problem.

hmm ok maybe ths end then i'll retry it tomorrow see what goes, thanks for the replies guys

Just gone through them again and checked, about half of them follow waypoints, the other half don't, but the ones that don't are ones I don't think are meant to:

Combat Mutant - YES
Combat Soldier (defender) - NO
Combat Soldier (peek) - NO
Combat Soldier - YES
Masked Civilian - NO
Masked Soldier (defender) - NO
Masked Soldier (peek) - NO
Masked Soldier - YES
Rocket Man - YES
Shotgun Guard (defender) - NO
Shotgun Soldier - YES
Special Ops Mutant - YES
Special Ops Soldier - YES
Uber Solider - YES
Uber Soldier Red - YES
Uzi Guard (defender) - NO
Uzi Soldier - YES

Try copying the fpe of one of the ones marked in green to use for your custom character and see if it works.

Agreed I think they are just supposed to Defend, Guard the locations when they are placed ..

That is not Myke's writing style.
That came from someone else's quote. Seemed to take care of there issue.

I concur that the AI is totally goofed up and nonfunctional (in my opinion)... I needed to go back to v1.14 (or 1.4) because the latest AI update is so goofed up that I can't get it to work correctly at all... I have read several forum threads about it, but none of them helped.

My fbx2gg characters either (1) climb the invisible walls and leave the game play area, (2) they turn their back to you and refuse to fight, or (3) they stand there flinching like they are having a severe muscle spasm or a seizure.

In my opinion the old AI was far superior, the new updates are completely unusable, and GG isn't easy to use anymore. No offense intended, because I love everything up to v1.14, and I know you guys do great work... I think this one simply slipped through the cracks, but still needs to be fixed.

I think Lee needs to work on getting the AI working correctly before any other updates or anything else is worked on... or I will be stuck with v1.14 permanently.

Otherwise, I think the updates should be modules where you can take or leave them on an individual basis.

Tried a level, the enemy ran down a sheer cliff through water up another a sheer cliff and killed me .

Dave

just to clarify, 180 is the real maximum of an AI's view cone, anything above that is the same result as it works both sides of 0.
i.e 1 is checking -1 and +1 - and as it's a circle 180 will check -180 and +180 making a total of 360.

i agree the AI needs more work, seems a shame to see yet more half finished features, AI is so important and it was given no time at all.
i would like to see it more open to us with some feedback on what's happening in the AI code...
right now there's no way to tell if a path is even possible for a character so you could very easily just get characters staring at walls etc, if we know in advance then we can try another destination.
how far the total distance travelled in the desired path would be - not the distance they have travelled but how far they "would" travel (this would make it possible to calculate other paths rather than simply taking the default route which is always the shortest - for flanking the player etc)
no feedback on if there's an obstacle in the way - would be nice to get some form of simple obstacle detection/feedback and size etc so we know if we could make the character jump over it or duck under it maybe.
a way to determine if opening a door would create a shorter route

would also have been nice to get the FireWeapon(e) code changed so we can have allies that can actually shoot at stuff other than the player as Lee did mention he might do.

I disagree, the new AI is much more flexible, far superior, but it does take some tweaks to non stock characters to make them work. The scripting of other AI behaviour is now possible, Lee has done the basics, but lots more can be added, but will take time.



For (1) - use a floor zone for the area you do not wish the AI to escape from - place the AI within this zone and they won't move out unless you have connected them to another floor zone by a way-point-path. This works well as you can force the AI to move only down narrow paths if you want to - to traverse from wide open zone to another wide open zone.

For (2) - do they turn their back on you on first play of game or after an in game death, level replay? If after replay so, I got this with some of my custom characters that used the 'fixnewy' fpe. If they are not turning around when you approach from behind, need to adjust the View Cone Angle and perhaps the View Range of the character. View Cone Angle is set from forward view, each side, so set it to 180 and the character will have 360 degree vision if that's what you want. Move the debug visual slider up a notch and the shaded are surrounding the character is where they can 'see'.

For (3) - reads like the animations may not be set-up correctly in the fpe, these ones need to be correct for the new scripts (the csi references aren't used for the new scripts) - have you got these set correctly in your custom character?



Cheers.

It was me that said 500


Basically I just threw 500 out there .... As smallg states anything above does not matter ...

@ cybernescence

Thanks for the helpful ideas, but unfortunately none of those suggestions work for me...

Adding the floor zone stops the fbx2gg character from walking over the invisible wall, but then at the start of the test game level all the characters turn their backs to me, start flinching, and refuse to fight unless fired upon... I tried the animation numbers you gave and none of that works either... I also tried adjusting the view cone angle and that didn't work either...

None of the new AI system works for me at all...

I guess I'm stuck with update v 1.14 permanently... or at least until the new AI is fixed so that it's a little more easy to work with...

If GG is this difficult to work with, then I ask, "What happened to GG being the easy game maker?"

I'm sorry... I don't mean to hijack this thread... If I did, I sincerely apologize... I'm just frustrated with these AI problems... I also thought I saw Granada say on some other threads that he can't even use GG at this time, because it is too difficult to figure out the new AI... and I'm in that same situation.

@Len the man:
Can you send me your fuse file, the textures, The fpe file you are using, the .bmp file, the x file. Tell me if you want a weapon or just neutral behavior.

Zip it all up and send me a dropbox link to my PM and I will take a look at it.

Like the name said , Game guru the easy game maker. ??
i do not think so. not every user here is a program genius, and then i dont even talk about the averidge person who just buy the software and are not part of the forum , they just want to make a game, they will not succeed with Game Guru software.
So what are we going to do about it. ?

i am using the latest steam update as released by Lee.
Please Lee test this with the same update as that any user will received with steam, then surly you will see all the problems, if i use the normal steam update and you do not, how will you then be able to test all the problems from the users.
with the latest update, i have all these problems listed below , and now then please any one dont come and tel me to use a beta test or any thing else,
game guru is supposed to give updates to the general public, and they are supposed to make and easy game with the updated software. The fundamental game play of any good game is to have an ai that works and respond correctly. if we can not start with that and complete it with out the users to have to modify the ai to have normal eye site, and know when to stop to chase an player, then game guru will never, succeed. lets start with the ai and fix all the users problems, and once its fix , then lets move forward. i suggest that someone make a list of all the ai problems from the users here on the forum, and then Lee can start fixing one at a time.

if you have to modify normal behavior of an ai soldier, then the ai script is not correct.

This is my problems so far with the ai ( with the new update. )

1. the ai do not see me , have to walk almost up to them before they see me its Not Normal.
2. if by accident i put down a way point , even if it is at the end of the map all the ai's run to it, Not normal.
3. if you put the ai down in the editor, they stand in a combat mode ( gun mode ) with no gun, Not normal.
4. if you run far away from them they are supposed to stop, if they can not see you no more, like in a normal game condition, at this point they keep on running, they constantly know were you are. Its Not normal.
5. ai_wanderer script still not working after update.
6. ai sometimes jumps over entities to get to you.

Please lets fix the ai, and then move forward.

ps . Lee i know i have asked in a previous thread to fix the copy and paste function, but the ai is still more importend.

Guys i wasn't actually complaining here just asking for some info or maybe a video on how the new system works, its not my intention to stir up some hornets nest about rights or wrongs as i do really think Lee is doing a blooming good job, i just think us non scripters need a little help here as to what does what and how, nothing more nothing less. I've actually deleted the waypoints and the characters now don't stand still. I do yet have to adjust the view range etc, i don't think the new system is the problem just a lack of knowledge how to actually use it is.

I am also sorry, that i complained , but the ai is far from working correctly for a Easy game maker software.
But we can not leave it as it is now.

I really don't understand the new AI, either. I've kinda given up on it for a while.


EDIT: I really didn't understand the old AI, either, but I appreciated that the characters didn't fly randomly, freeze, or slide around the terrain.

PCSKILLER..


The character by default has his " viewconeangle" set directly in front of him. If the character is facing you he Will see you and attack.
Adjust the cone angle to 180 or above and he will see you from behind ... You can also set his "view range " to your desired distance.
I think you have a lot more ability to customise than what we did and it does not give me a problem to be honest ..


If you did put one down accidently what would you expect them to do ?
Its there and they will go to it as they should .... Don't accidently put one down or delete it if you do..


If I'm reading you correctly here in the editor you wont see the gun until you try it in test mode ...
If your referring to standing idle but always posing with the gun then yes I think this is still a bug ..


Again if you set your "view distance" and " Always Active = on " in properties they will stop when you are out of the range that you have set ..


Yep this does look to be a fault ...


I haven't really seen this but again its possibly a bug ..

Ok from your big list I can only find 2 errors I can agree with if I'm reading it correctly and 1 error I personally haven't seen yet but I will take your word for it. The others though would seem to be just plonking characters down without any setup ... Zombies and other characters do have different default settings but its still best to set your own ... Using " Tab Tab " and using the "Debug Slider " will confirm what I have said and allow you to test it.

There are still issues don't get me wrong .. Upper levels, Collision but its not bad as it may seem ..

In the editor it will show the idle animation of the character, on the soldier models their idle animation is aiming their weapon so that's the pose they will use in the editor, weapons only show in test or standalone, they don't show in the editor, this is normal behaviour.

Still not sure on this one myself ... Characters used to stand and fidget until you were seen and then go into the gun pose ...
That's what I was referring to but not sure about PCSKILLER ..

Sorry, I worded that wrong. The new system doesn't use the CSI animation lines, so only one idle animation is used now instead of the previous two. What I meant was the guns not being shown in the editor is normal behaviour.

Ahh that answers mine then But I did prefer the fidget then gun pose ..

@ synchromesh.
what i ment by the ai standing with out a gun, in the editor, is just like that !. they use to stand and fidget , but now when you test in the editor, they stand as if they are ready to shoot, with out a gun.
Also , to get back at the way point, even if you do use the way point to make a path , the ai run straight to it, it does not matter how far they are from the path, that is not correct, or am i wrong, are they not suppose to only go to the path if they are in range.?


Also if you use the way point with a floor zone, the same thing happens, they go directly to the way point, again it does not matter how far hey are from the way point or path, if the ai were working correctly, they would have only use the way point/ path that is connected to the floor zone once they Need to attack an player.


you just assume that i do not plan my maps, nice of you to think that.
the way you put it is as if i am trying to waste Lee's time or any one else who would or might fix it.
i do not go to all this trouble just to waste my time or any one's time, i do this so that we can fix the problems and take game guru forward.

Sorry i bothered to point out the problems. good luck in solving them if this is the response.

( Was hoping Lee would under stand and answer to this problems. )

No not at all .. What I meant was you placed the characters down without setting their properties .. Am I wrong ?
You did say that you could walk right up behind them without being seen so it sounds like you hadn't.
I gave you the same solution Lee would have told you ?
And I agreed with a couple ..

I have just now again tested the ai with viewconeangle" at 90 and the view range with 100, 200 ,400 ,1000, 1200 , and alwyas active , it does not matter what viewrange i use , as soon as i interact with the ai , and he starts following me, i can run as far as i want he is still cumming at me.?

i still feel we must get all the problems from the users regarding the ai and it must be tested and fix before we do any thing else. a good ai system that works without any problems is basic ai fundamental game play. we can not get pass it, it must be fix 100% before any other upgrades take place, or we will go one step forward and two backwards.

I agree, but I have the feeling that a lot of stuff is already working pretty good if setup right by the user. It just lacks a proper documentation.

@Len the man : Can you pick your worst AI issue and send me an FPM level with stock assets (not expansion or DLC) showing this and a brief explanation of what you expected to see and what you actually see. I think it best we tackle things one by one instead of a big general mash of stuff. Hopefully, some of your findings will have overlap with issues experienced by others. The aim of the AI update was to decouple the character behavior from the internal state system so you could script what your game characters do. Naturally, if you are not comfortable with scripting, there is not much benefit here. I have also tried to make sure all the stock characters can be dropped down and do something sensible within a stock world so if you find issues there I would like to know specifically which character and maybe an FPM level to show how they are misbehaving. For custom character models, and custom scripts, the water gets much deeper and it's tough to know where the line of responsibility is drawn, and you can imagine how difficult it would be for me to debug someone else's script while using a custom model I had no hand in creating or importing. This is why I ask for stock asset based stuff where possible so we operate from a known position and work on those issues most users might encounter.

Similarly, if anyone else is having a hard time with the stock AI system, pick your single worst offender and as above, send me an FPM with stock asset usage to lee@thegamecreators.com and I will do some AI tweaks for the April update to address them. The more specifics on your major AI issue the better! Thanks

@Lee,
Please lee it would be so nice if you could make a small video to explain how the new ai scripts work and were in the new scripts we can do our modifications. Just so that every one who does not know can see how it works.
Thanks alot.

He's already done two, maybe even three, and most of the settings you were talking about in this thread don't need to be changed in the script, you change them in the models properties window, they're fairly self explanatory (and there's a description at the bottom of the window when you select them).

What i would like to see though is a video detailing the new gloabal ai scripts and what each does, with maybe a quick explanation of what's required to use them in your own scripts.

@Belidos - something like the old twitch broadcasts (which were very good at explaining how to use and modify ai scripts) would be nice.

@belidos
What you are saying in the end of your thread is the same im talking about in my previus thread. I dont want to see a video of the ai's properties! , want a video of there sripts.

Yes but the things you were asking how to do were things that are changed in properties, not scripts, so i got confused lol

Ok had a little playtest today



1 of each of the two types of characters are AI guard, and the others set to AI soldier, i also tried AI patrol which does actually work quite well without waypoints (not in the vid) the only thing im not quite getting right is the view range as it doesnt seem to make much difference whether its set to 1k or 100k and all those in between, i also checked the scripts but from what i can see they point to the properties panel. which is where i was trying to come from in the beginning, reason being while i was setting up the levels i wanted to give the enimy snipers in the towers more range (as you would with a sniper) the rest of it is working fine spot the Guard verses the soldier anyway was a good chance to test the edited weapons lol

Where did you find that ...Cant see that one ?

EDIT !! Found it

nice one for those who dont know its in the AI folder, still a few issues with some entities climbing vertical walls but I'm getting there now is there any commands for climb vertical e.g same as the player? if so maybe if this was added to the scripts it would solve the running up faces problem or even a height limit?