Product Chat / The End of steam greenlight

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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 11th Feb 2017 13:24 Edited at: 11th Feb 2017 13:37
Hey Guys, I know this is not gameguru related, but I think it's important that you know this.

Steam Greenlight will be shut down this year in spring. It will be replaced with another concept. We will see what the change means for game developers in the long term.

here is a link to the news: http://www.theverge.com/2017/2/10/14578780/valve-steam-greenlight-shut-down-direct-submissions
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granada
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Posted: 11th Feb 2017 13:35
Sound good to me,just read the the post.at least it will stop the rubbish games coming from a lot of people.

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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 11th Feb 2017 13:39
yes I agree. I am very interested to see the changes.
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Len the man
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Posted: 11th Feb 2017 16:42
I hope this works out for the best, because I have been working hard to make a good quality game that I wanted to put on there.

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DVader
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Posted: 11th Feb 2017 16:43
Personally I don't like the sound of it. Yes it may well weed out the rubbish games released, but I'm guessing it will stop a lot of us even trying to put a game up. The new submission fee could be anything from 100 to 5000. Bit of a jump that, especially as it is a per title fee. If the fee were 5000, there is no way at all I would put a game up, it's just too much of a risk (not too mention more money than I have anyway). In honesty it wouldn't need to be anywhere near the 5000 mentioned to put me off. Even good games sometimes fail, there's no guarantee it will take off. I've seen plenty commercial games that are really good, that fail to sell in quantities they should have. At least with the current system you can afford to lose the fee and even if your game doesn't sell that well, you will probably not lose money after all is said and done (apart from all the hours you spent making the game). Unless of course it isn't given the green light.

All Steam need to do is vet the games better. This is just a way of trying to avoid negative press without spending any money themselves. In fact just the opposite, trying to force the process of quality control on to the developer by charging a higher fee. Now yes, I agree the dev should have some quality control, that's obvious - but by the same standards Steam should also have the same. Do you see the film industry saying "We don't actually watch and check the films, we just rely on the film makers to do a good job and rate it accordingly." No, Steam could do a lot better job with this, they are just greedy, greedy, greedy. This is just a knee jerk reaction to the barrage of bad Steam games highlighted on Youtube, and a broken voting system that allows bad games to be released. I mean come on - some of these games - you can tell they are terrible at a glance. 30 seconds play testing would tell you that the game is utter rubbish with no redeeming features. Not hard to check before releasing on your store. I mean perhaps try reading the comments people make on a game, before deciding that just because x amount of people have voted for a title it is good to go. It may well be the same bunch of people who voted for 8 other awful games. Perhaps that in itself could be taken into consideration? This wouldn't be hard to police better.

No Valve are just scared people will move to another game provider, pushing up the fee so only people who already have money can apply. This is just a good way of preventing indies from starting up and a cheap option for Valve. For me it's a cop out. All they need to do is pay a few people to vet the games better, it will hardly cost them a fortune in comparison to what the games will make them in the long run. They are a huge company that acts like they are an indie in this regard.


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MooKai
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Posted: 11th Feb 2017 16:55
Good, greenlight was far away from being perfect.
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Mouaa
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Posted: 11th Feb 2017 23:24
Steam was becoming an hosting site for any games including lot of trash ones, this change will be a good step making Steam accepting less garbage and getting more professionnal indie games instead.
Steam should not continue to host low quality games, there is many sites already existing for that.
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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 02:15
@ DVader

I agree that they should simply get a small number of people to vet the games.

I put my comments on Steam... I hope it helps...
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OldFlak
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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 04:09
Meh, death to Steam!

Reliquia....
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Teabone
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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 05:30 Edited at: 12th Feb 2017 10:09
A direct result of the "get rich quick" schemes from "developers" using easy to put together game engines and throwing them online for sale. I know this for a fact as I've been following the indie market on Steam for quite sometime. Its quite remarkable what types of minimal effort games have some how made it on to the market place there. A lot made with Unity templates and RPGMaker.

Not good news for me, for many of the same reasons Dvader has mentioned. Thanks for sharing the article, Duchenkuke. This is important for myself as I didn't support Game Guru originally for just hobby use. But with the intent of one day completed a game for commercial release. Stricter guidelines may be harsher on the preference issues that currently still remains with Game Guru. Also a feed for submission is not very encouraging.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 06:38 Edited at: 12th Feb 2017 06:50
Quote: "Good, greenlight was far away from being perfect."


And this will be as bad except il bet the huge fee's wont go to charity ...Theres no need to change a thing ....
If the voting to Greenlight was done correctly and the fact that steam ignore that anyway it would be fine and rubbish wouldn't get voted greenlit ... Many have got on without the required votes etc ...It seems its all self inflicted by steam anyway ..

Seems to me only the fee is going to change but if you pay enough you can still get rubbish on steam ....
And if they say " Oh No we are going to vet them " then why haven't they been doing that anyway ..
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wizard of id
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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 07:36
Up to $5000 ? Well I don't work on dollars, shoe string budget and all $5000 is enough to tie me over 8 months two to four years to get that amount of cash, ready, A away to keep bad games out, but indies on shoe string budgets as well.
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MooKai
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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 22:28
The voting before on greenlight had no effect. Only Valve decided what goes into their shop or not.
The voting was only for the kids, that they feel somehow important hahahaha
Greenlight was only an indicator for Valve to check, in what the users are interested.

Bad thing, the fee will go up...
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granada
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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 22:33
Quote: "Bad thing, the fee will go up..."

Probably the whole reason for the change in the first place ,all down to money again.

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MooKai
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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 22:40
Everything over $500 will kill the indie market.
All small indies will go somewhere else, maybe...
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synchromesh
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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 22:42 Edited at: 12th Feb 2017 22:44
Quote: "To get a game on Steam Direct, developers will need to “complete a set of digital paperwork, personal or company verification, and tax documents similar to the process of applying for a bank account.” "


Sounds like maybe the Tax man wants his cut of your profits as well ....
I'm waiting to hear what happens to those who have paid for Greenlight already ..
As it went to charity I'm guessing refunds wont be an option ... Just a thanks for your donation will probably be the response
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Belidos
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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 22:42
Quote: "Only Valve decided what goes into their shop or not. "


The voting did have effect, and Valve only ever checked to make sure your game was uploaded in the right formats etc.

We know the voting had effect because there were dozens of Steam groups with hundreds of users selling their collective votes to get people greenlighted.

That's why so many trashy games made it through greenlight, because the votes were being rigged and Valve wasn't bothering to check.

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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 22:50 Edited at: 12th Feb 2017 22:51
Many Green Lighters have told me votes didn't really make a difference .... Apparently it was more down to activity ..
Good or bad comments helped a lot and bad really boosted the activity ?

It makes more sense as well ...how on earth could some of the games pass the process else ?
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synchromesh
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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 22:59 Edited at: 12th Feb 2017 23:00
Whats more annoying is there still selling it knowing full well customers could lose their money ..
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Wolf
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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 23:28
Ah! Wonderful! Greenlight was a cancerous desaster before. There needs to be at least some kind of quality control. This "power to the people" approach simply doesn't fly because developers tended to lie or people voted "ironically",unfortunately.

I'm certain this will improve the image of the indie scene in the long run!

Quote: ""This new path, which we’re calling 'Steam Direct,' is targeted for spring 2017 and will replace Steam Greenlight," Valve explains. "We will ask new developers to complete a set of digital paperwork, personal or company verification, and tax documents similar to the process of applying for a bank account. Once set up, developers will pay a recoupable application fee for each new title they wish to distribute, intended to decrease the noise in the submission pipeline." Part of the goal is to discourage the submission of Greenlight projects that are submitted in bad faith, such as joke-projects or projects comprised of stolen assets."


Nice!
synchromesh
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Posted: 12th Feb 2017 23:28
Well I can answer half my question ... Apparently you will be able to get a refund ....
Even so ... Its pretty pointless selling it now ..
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Teabone
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Posted: 13th Feb 2017 05:45
Quote: "There needs to be at least some kind of quality control. "


While I do agree with this, the increased fee is what kind of scares me. I'm assuming this will result in a LARGE boost in Kickstarter campaigns to fund their Steam Direct processing fee. Question is what happens when they actually succeed their Kickstarter goal but fail to pass the Steam Direct review process? Sounds like this might open up other companies to become venders.
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Ertlov
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Posted: 13th Feb 2017 09:03
Quote: "While I do agree with this, the increased fee is what kind of scares me. I'm assuming this will result in a LARGE boost in Kickstarter campaigns to fund their Steam Direct processing fee."


My first thought exactly.

The average non-hyped stealth-released indie pc game on steam makes net revenues of 3000 - 8000 Dollars (excluding bundles and 3rd party licensing).

The ratio of fee to potential earnings must be at least plausible.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 13th Feb 2017 09:54 Edited at: 13th Feb 2017 09:54
I guess we wont know all the facts till its done ...

@Ertlov
How will this effect the likes of you .... You already have a game on steam but when the changes come in you will then be on steam direct ... Will your next game fall under the category of $100 to $5000 per game like everyone else ?
It seems to me if they can just cancel unused greenlight accounts then slight alterations to existing agreements wont be an issue for them
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Belidos
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Posted: 13th Feb 2017 10:14
Well, if they do make it as much as $5000 then that's my game finished before it's started, there's no way i will be able to afford put up $5000 in the chance i will make more.

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Ertlov
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Posted: 13th Feb 2017 10:26 Edited at: 13th Feb 2017 10:27
Quote: "@Ertlov
How will this effect the likes of you"


That's an interesting question. I have two games as developer AND publisher on Steam, additionally there is still Painkiller filed as "developed by Homegrown Games" by the current IP Holder THQ Nordic.

I am direct lister at Steam, what means I don't have to do greenlight, I simply tell my Steam manager(s) I have a new game ready and get an App ID for that.

Will I have to pay for this AppID in the future?

I honestly don't know, but need to know fast. We have two Steam releases scheduled for 2017. While I would pay almost any fee for "Into the Ice", because of the fact that as direct sequel to Into the Dark it would be almost impossible to not cash the fee back through sales, the other one is a 0.99 $ re-release from an older Homegrown Game where we plan to donate all revenues to cancer research. Any fee applicable would kill that idea.

PS: With a 5000$ fee (worst case), I wouldn't have brought Father's Island to Steam.
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Belidos
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Posted: 13th Feb 2017 10:35
Quote: "PS: With a 5000$ fee (worst case), I wouldn't have brought Father's Island to Steam."


This is exactly what i mean, even a game like Father's Island, which has done pretty well, it would be a huge risk to pay out that kind of money in advance, if they put their price too high, and continue to take 30% of the sales, it will definitely kill off a lot of potentially good indie games before they're even started. True there's a lot of trash that shouldn't be there, but there are a lot of decent one man indie games that would not have been released with a fee that high.

They need to walk a tight rope with this one, find a price mark that is achievable by one man indie devs, but not too low it attracts the trash. Personally i don't think they can do it with just the price, they need to make the price low enough not to kill off one man publishers, and have a dedicated team to vet games before they even accept the fee.

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Mouaa
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Posted: 13th Feb 2017 11:08
I would like a store for PC games with a deep quality control like Sony PSN , this way hobbyst and amateurs games would not pass, and price could stay around 90$ to submit a game.
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Posted: 13th Feb 2017 11:18 Edited at: 13th Feb 2017 11:24
Perhaps I will create a site so users can sell their games ....
I was thinking of calling it " Stream Games " LOL
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 13th Feb 2017 11:22
Quote: "I was thinking of calling it " Stream " LOL"


'Synchro' would suit you more
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 13th Feb 2017 11:24
LOL all this talk about steam. I still play Halflife, people seem to forget Steam is owned my Valve and they used to be indie developers I think the guy that created the original Wolfenstein joined Valve or was it ID lol
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MooKai
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Posted: 13th Feb 2017 11:45
Synchromesh you can call it Bluelight hahaha
Ertlov, if you know that you want to release 2 games, then you can already ask them to send you 2 new AppIDs. Better now, before it gets expensive.
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Ertlov
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Posted: 13th Feb 2017 11:51
Yeah, will do exactly that.
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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 13th Feb 2017 13:41
I knew this would be discussed! Some very interesting posts here
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