Product Chat / GameGuru 2017.02.28 Progress Update

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Anubis
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2017 19:42
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Editor also still very laggy.
The more entities, the more lag.

Switching between Free flight and Topdown also goes very slow.

And i found deleting waypoints (also the floormarkers) makes the editor go into Free Flight mode.
A bit annoying when using WASD after a deletion. Need to press G first, then i can move again.
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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2017 20:00
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anubis try this

in the setup file in the gameguru folder change

disablesurfacesnap=0

to

disablesurfacesnap=1

reload GG and all is good again. Everything seems smoother.
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Anubis
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2017 20:45 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2017 21:20
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@Tarkus, i did. i read about it earlier today somewhere.. EDIT: it does help (after i rebooted pc)

About the switch between free flight and topdown.. it does not always happen.
I will try to find out whatever i was doing before going topdown and reproduce the slow transition

EDIT:

Ok, i can reproduce it..
Topdown editor.. pick up an entity, keep it under mousepointer, click and Hold RMB (free flight mode), use WASD to zoom into map and place down the entity. After placing entity, press G.. and i tried this several times, always very slow.
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Belidos
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2017 22:01
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Yup same here. It's been like that for a very long time for me, but it does seem a little longer since the last update.

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Posted: 3rd Mar 2017 22:57
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New one.

I placed several zombies, editor setting: spawn at start NO. and put down a trigger zone.
That use to work perfectly. Now it seems my zombies are already walking around, invisible that is..
Cause when i do step on the trigger, they spawn right in front of me, while they should spawn round the corner
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Posted: 4th Mar 2017 00:08
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Quote: "Empty map - open entities, characters, pick one (stock soldier) and place character.. i have to wait around 5-10 seconds for the map to appear again and show my character to be placed.

PS.. second character goes a lot quicker.. probably the engine starting up when placing the first.. so no biggie here."


Yeah same here for any model added to either a new map or an existing map - select model\character - wait 10 seconds and enjoy the nice black screen, and then all good to go. After that no problems.

But I noticed this on previous build too - just a little longer wait on the new release.

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Posted: 4th Mar 2017 01:04 Edited at: 4th Mar 2017 01:57
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AI Issues...
Except for Zombies, all of the other characters I've tried side across the path instead of walking .
Their arms and limbs stationary. Even the purchased characters.
Some that have weapons shoot at the ground instead of moving their arms.
I went into steam and re-verified files but it didn't fix anything
I thought I saw a comment on this some place, but can't find it.

Dvader, I downloaded your map and had the same issues you describe.
I also have the crazy Zombie thing happen where they get to you then go into a frenzy.
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 4th Mar 2017 02:01
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None of my characters work right. Even my zombies slide, run in place, a few have literally jumped and flown across the landscape, and they never do stairs. But then, they ARE zombies. Elevators (lifts) are probably more to their liking. I'm probably doing something wrong and I have no idea what, lol. I'm sure it will get sorted out.
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Posted: 4th Mar 2017 11:11
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Yes, takes 20 seconds or so on mine as well when first placing an NPC down. Is no-one else experiencing the issues I mentioned in my last post? I'm finding the Zombie/melee AI to be pretty useless at the moment. It's pretty much as bad as it ever was for me, with all the old bugs showing their head along with some new ones.


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Posted: 4th Mar 2017 11:25
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Yeah, also finding some maps are pretty much unable to be edited - just try adding any model\character to GTR or MMS it is almost impossible to do here., and BE won't even run just gets stuck loading AI Obstacles, have to use Task Manager to end it, then GG won't load after that, just starts up, almost gets to displaying the editor and crashes out again. Next restart it loads but still won't run BE. Rinse and repeat.

Zombies are either frantic or just stupid, soldiers either attack aggressively, or just run on the spot, or slide, or do nothing at all.

Ahh those elusive bugs!

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Lance
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Posted: 4th Mar 2017 13:11
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I am also experiencing the same lag before I place the first NPC on the map . It's like the map editor is looking for something that is missing or is it some debug code that was left in the build ?

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smallg
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Posted: 4th Mar 2017 16:37
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Quote: "Is no-one else experiencing the issues I mentioned in my last post? I'm finding the Zombie/melee AI to be pretty useless at the moment. It's pretty much as bad as it ever was for me, with all the old bugs showing their head along with some new ones."


seems fine to me?


bound to be a few teething issues, Lee pushed this update out super fast and to be honest i'm a bit disappointed it didn't get more time spent on it as it's such a huge part of any game - not so much the script side of things but making sure stuff like (setting new or slower) rotation, path finding and physics are all working good, seems odd when something like EBE got months and AI got a week or 2? (although a good job for such a short time frame and it's a lot better than it used to be it definitely needs more work).
but maybe it can simply be added back to the voting board and we'll see if others agree, with more time it might be fine once we get more custom scripts again and i know Lee wants to be seen as making progress this year
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Posted: 4th Mar 2017 16:45
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Can't see the vid, perhaps you miss publish it ?

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Belidos
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Posted: 4th Mar 2017 17:01
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There needs to be a distance limit to stop them standing on top of you like that, and a collision distance limit to stop them putting their arms through walls etc..

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synchromesh
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Posted: 4th Mar 2017 17:36 Edited at: 4th Mar 2017 17:38
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I don't think Lee is totally finished with AI ... No doubt he will be making adjustments etc as reports come in
Belidos's idea sounds good ...that would help a lot ...
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 4th Mar 2017 17:46
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Some new FPE statements have been added, not consistent between AI_Bots yet.

conerange = 400
coneheight = 53
endcollision = 0
IGNOREDEFANIM = 0

;thirdperson
jumpmodifier = 250
jumphold = 747
jumpresume = 755
jumpvaulttrim = 0

isspinetracker
Remove ISTHIRDPERSON field from Wizard FPE's as not used any more
Allowed melee action to intercept move/run so Third Person Mode can instant attack
Added 'meleerange' and meleehitangle' to FPE to control TPP melee attack metrics
Added 'meleestrikest' and 'meleestrikefn' to FPE to define 'deadly' melee anim frames
Added 'meleedamagest' and 'meleedamagefn' to FPE to define range of damage per strike
NOTE: Above commands override defaults used by stock characters that don't have them
'forceobstaclepolysize' to FPE to allow control of 'obstacle slice' resolution
fatness = 100

Setup.ini
obstacleradius=18


I will try and get definitions for all of these and update the FPE and stuff thread accordingly.



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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 14:22 Edited at: 5th Mar 2017 14:24
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Quote: "I don't think Lee is totally finished with AI"

I really hope so.

I think Lee is testing AI collision in this build, and the lack of collision in AIs has much to do with "endcollision = 0", this command gives collisionOff to the AIs when died. Perhaps ais when died should simply dissapears forever, so engine has not bother about them as well.

This is what we need:

Quote: "In both modes entities automatically avoid obstacles and other entities in their current container when moving about, without a need for a separate collision system. However, dynamic obstacles such as crates should not be added to the AI system, instead use an external collision/physics system to detect collisions with dynamic obstacles and use AI Set Entity Collide. "


Nice info Mike.

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DVader
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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 15:03 Edited at: 5th Mar 2017 15:05
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@ smallg, for a moment I was fazed when I saw your vid, then I realised it was my test map For a few seconds I was thinking spooky... I actually did a video myself but didn't upload it. So, after seeing yours, thought I'd go ahead, so Lee can get some data on the issues and possibly how they are happening.



Similar issues on the same map, apart from the building you can hide in. The zombies have extraordinary eyesight at present.

Edit
@ Bod. Hard to see the difference in those shots, they all look okay to me. Perhaps a bit more light would highlight the differences better?


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DVader
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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 16:07
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Quote: "what's the point having a slider if it has to be on 100% ?"


For performance reasons Highest reflects everything and then it drops object reflections on different sized objects as you drop down. So if you design your map well and don't leave any small objects near the water, you can lower the settings down and lose no reflections. Or that's the theory Generally though, anything less than 66 tends to look a little odd.


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Sanguis
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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 16:11
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I've got faced a problem too.
When I try to attach any lua script to an entity, the map editor hangs up.
It just can end it via Taskmanager.

What could it be? I think I'm the only one with this problem.
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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 16:38
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When new update is coming? any news!
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smallg
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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 17:00
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Quote: "When new update is coming? any news!"

What new update would that be?
The AI update is already out, just update via steam.
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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 17:25
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this update has problems, and I expect a good patch. With no problems solved by users, but problems solved with a further update.

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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 17:28
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Lee is still tweaking I believe so we may get a few AI updates before moving on to the next big thing but he's not back till tomorrow ...
He definitely earned a break after the last few weeks
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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 17:35
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@DVader , Smallg

Nice Zombie vids .... That should help Lee see what going on
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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 18:16
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Hopefully


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Honkeyboy
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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 18:31
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@ DVader I know that was a bug related video m8 but it made my night had me peeing myself with laughter, should have used monty python characters lol
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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 19:23 Edited at: 5th Mar 2017 19:25
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Quote: "There needs to be a distance limit to stop them standing on top of you like that, and a collision distance limit to stop them putting their arms through walls etc.."


Agreed. We had this fixed a year or so ago from the community side, but looks like the fixes were not added the the LUA in the stock code.

There are quite a number of characters that need unique player distance limits added to them... there are ranged characters that still run up and push the player too.
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smallg
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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 20:29
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Quote: "@ smallg, for a moment I was fazed when I saw your vid, then I realised it was my test map For a few seconds I was thinking spooky... I actually did a video myself but didn't upload it. So, after seeing yours, thought I'd go ahead, so Lee can get some data on the issues and possibly how they are happening."

yh, your map just so i can get a straight comparison as i haven't really spent much time in GG since the update so was lazy to build anything
got to say your zombies are way more buggy than mine but most of the issues are more with the new script(s) and not the new update really, the old scripts still work fine.

path finding is much improved - though of course not perfect... do we really expect it to be perfect? i think it just needs a little more work to stop the sliding around and then it's fine, likely it can be fixed by checking the player can actually get somewhere before moving it as the new AI way is to call 2 forms of movement and this causes the issues as they don't always match up.
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Belidos
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Posted: 5th Mar 2017 20:56
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Quote: "path finding is much improved - though of course not perfect"


To be honest, I've found pathfinding to be worse after the update, before if you went inside they at least ran up to the door pretty much every time even if they didn't enter, but now if you run inside they try to take the most direct route and run up against a wall instead.

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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 12:39 Edited at: 6th Mar 2017 12:39
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Fear not, it was important to get the new AI into your projects so we could see it in the cold light of day and inevitable that changing the AI system would break older scripts and character models that relied on legacy functionality. Most of the issues can be solved with tweaks in the scripts and FPE files, but I will work through them this week, and of course, cool things like videos and simple step by step from scratch with stock media are most appreciated. I sill start with the reports here, but feel free to send me a complete 'easy to reproduce' bug report email if you have something you consider urgent for your game project.
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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 15:39
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The zombies jumping over the trees sometimes hahaha looks funny, but I would say it's a bug.
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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 16:10
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My maze map now takes their own decisions. I've some invisible zombi attaking me(in differet spots, so he/she is chassing me), but I can't see him or her.
SpawnAtStart=yes in all zombies properties, so that's not the issue.
Anyway I enjoy being attaked for one than I can't see, is most interisting; for that reazon I had not looking on depth for the issue yet.

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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 17:40
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Quote: "My maze map now takes their own decisions. I've some invisible zombi attaking me(in differet spots, so he/she is chassing me), but I can't see him or her.
SpawnAtStart=yes in all zombies properties, so that's not the issue.
Anyway I enjoy being attaked for one than I can't see, is most interisting; for that reazon I had not looking on depth for the issue yet"

this happens when the character's "body" (i.e. what we see) is stuck but the AI system (i.e. the invisible logic system) has moved/freed itself - the 2 are not always in sync anymore.

good to hear the AI update is not yet finished
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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 18:30
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Quote: "@ DVader I know that was a bug related video m8 but it made my night had me peeing myself with laughter, should have used monty python characters lol"

Thanks On occasion I try to make my bug reports humorous merely from my reaction to the bug

I'm sure these niggles will be ironed out soon enough, as I said in the vid still pretty early days time-wise with this update.


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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 19:38
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After changing line 32 in module_combatshoot;


To

The combat soldier follows the path, however as you can see in the video, he does not reach the end of the path.
Instead he goes back down the stairs and strays of the path.



I've tried several possibilities to get him to follow the whole path on the roof but without success.

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3com
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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 19:50
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Quote: "this happens when the character's "body" (i.e. what we see) is stuck but the AI system (i.e. the invisible logic system) has moved/freed itself - the 2 are not always in sync anymore."

Nice to know smallg. Thanks for the tip.

Almost all my zombies are getting thru the walls when level start. I think Lee testing collision.
Theay are showing me than always the straight line is the short way, does not matter if they has some walls in from of them.

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Posted: 6th Mar 2017 22:45
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I don't need Waypoints .... I have smart AI now ....I can go where I SMAAACK !!!
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 10:33
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@Earthling45 : If you can email me the custom building and FPM level, I can study why he disregards his waypoint path. My email is lee@thegamecreators.com
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 10:44
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Looks like he is trying to head for a stray waypoint.

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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 11:05
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if you walk up the stairs on the roof look back at the stairs the top of the stairs is
very narrow compared to the width of the stairs mabie a collision problem with character
collision turning the corner , on such a small area, or mabie put a waypoint on the small turn
then on to the roof itself , just a thought.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 13:05
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I did wonder if this would be an occasion the navmesh would be required on the top ?
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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devlin
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 14:13 Edited at: 7th Mar 2017 14:32
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possible size of the mesh above ground level, same as waypoints drops straight down to floor level again no control .
grab any waypoint above ground level is automatically flick back to ground level, this has to be a bug, same with the floor zone try
move any points on it when above ground goes down to floor level. could be the floor level above is not in standard unit height
depends if waypoints only snap to 100x100 . also look at the fpe for that building sandstone (3) compared to any other sandsone
building something dont look right . perhaps there might be problems with height on a scaling form. for waypoints on non standard
buildings. try the buiding editor and build something similar waypoints will not go up two flights of stairs, mabie me but it would not
work with one flight of stairs if anyone can confirm.
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Earthling45
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 14:22
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I've sent the files.

There is a bit of height difference which might cause the combat soldier to not follow the whole path and instead go down the stairs again.
However, i'm not sure if that is the reason.
when i delete the waypoints at the roof, he follows the path as expected without straying of the path.

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devlin
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 14:36
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@ Earthling45
yes built same level test you did same problem,
but you could try exporting the building re scale it to
the proper size for the gg editor and see if it fixes the problem,
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3com
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 19:20 Edited at: 7th Mar 2017 19:22
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I'm shooting salvo bullets or zombies are too strong.
Someone experienced that issue?
I've just placed some stock zombies on my map, but some of them do not want to abandon my level, I want to cash them and expire their contract, but them does not want the idea.



Using shotgun, notice how it shot at the begining of the video, and how it does at the very end, is like it only happens in certain parts of my level.
Notice also, I'm hurting/killing by invicible zombie, I can't see him/her, I imagine he/her is attaking me thru the walls, but continue attaking me, even far away of the walls; notice only are terrain, zombies, and player, so custom model has nothing to do, it only surround the scene. Just my thoughts.

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Earthling45
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Posted: 7th Mar 2017 20:30
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Quote: "@ Earthling45
yes built same level test you did same problem,
but you could try exporting the building re scale it to
the proper size for the gg editor and see if it fixes the problem,"


This building is a stock asset and scaled properly (slightly large) however, redoing the stairs on this model will probably fix this.
But let's wait for Lee's answer, so we know if the little hight difference is an issue on a path.
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m2design
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Posted: 8th Mar 2017 01:13
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Not a critical issue but is anyone else seeing this screen during preparation of test run?


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smallg
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Posted: 8th Mar 2017 15:09
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Looks like you have some PromptLocal on the AI script.
lua guide for GG
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=398177770
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m2design
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Posted: 8th Mar 2017 16:05
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I don't have it, we all have it (I think)
It turns out in the scriptbank / ai / module_core there are three promptlocal lines that are active. Need to remark out or delete.
Thanks for the hint.

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