Hi,

I seen this game made in GG using flat polygons graphics ( i am already familiar with polygon look for a mobile game i made using a specific shader and a vertex painting plugin ).


Did he used some specific vertex shader with GG ? or it was only some low res texture atlas containing all colors ?
Was the level lightmapped ? (perhaps real time as i don't see any issues lightmapping low res issues)

I think he used realtime, and pre-baked the shadows into his geometry, which he created and imported from scratch. This project is a great example of how much custom media and a lot of attention to detail can really transform a game created in GameGuru. I've seen a lot of flak on Steam about the use of ancient graphics technology used by GameGuru, and in the case of the majority of our stock media I would agree, but most engines rely on the process of importing your own graphics when making a game, and that's where you can create results as shown above. I don't expect this to be the last time we see some stunning GameGuru games thanks to a totally customized asset set

Real time means real time shadows. What is pre baked
Do you mean Meshes with a second UV and a lightmap can be imported in GG ? what is the shader ?

Pre-baked means he added the shadows the shadows directly onto the models texture, probably in photoshop or some other art package.

This is a work around lol



You will need to make a better workflow for importing models and their textures, make the zoom and rotate view possible with mouse, add texture slots, better physics visualisation.
There is lot of things that needs work to attract more exprienced people.

It's a process, not a workaround, many AAA developers use this process on incidental models to cut down on resource costs, a lot of them also do it with AO on objects it's not important to have engine control over.

Many would say its actually the correct and professional way to do it ..

I won't say to look at how it is easy and fast done in other software without needing work arounds , to not offend you.
The problem with GG is you must have work arounds for everything lol

Its not a work around ..
If you follow Unfamilia's tutorials he shows you how its done and the results are good for all levels of detail in any engine ...

First pic is a model made using Unfamilia's tutorial and the process above with GG at its highest detail ...



And then again with GG at rock bottom lowest detail but the model still has depth and looks good ..



These functions in model and paint programs aren't there just for fun ..

Most other game engines are the same if not worse, a lot engines need a script to use a shader, the difference is that those scripts are readily available because they have a huge community and massive store, so most scripts you can think of have already been done and are available, mainly by the community, so i ask who's using workarounds now? We're just not as far ahead as they are yet.

Agreed we don't have as many work arounds as they do

@Mouaa: Are you saying occlusion maps and pre-baked occlusion maps are workarounds?

@synchromesh

I rarely seen a 3D game where people paint shadows on textures until this is like World of Warcraft for example.
For a modern game there is AO shader, real time shadows, or some lightmapping , you don't need to paint shadows until you are doing a game for PC that are 10 years old hardware.
Considering for 50 or 100 bucks you can get a really good 3D card, this is not acceptable to work like 10 or more years ago, hardware has evolved a lot.
If your workflow needs you to paint on models textures and you are using real time lighting , something is wrong ?

@Lee
I was responding to Belidos about the the work around he was talking , to paint in Photoshop lol
"he added the shadows the shadows directly onto the models texture, probably in photoshop or some other art package."

@Belidos
We're just not as far ahead as they are yet.
Some software got far and fast , because it was super easy to use, anyone with only some basic coding knowledge could do anything and workflow was super easy. This is what helps to get more attention and more people using some software.

Check out a UV from a character ... Or a Banner from Call Of Duty perhaps .. Its no different

@Mouaa: Yes and no. It depends on how you choose to design your games and how "cross plattform" it'll be.
You'll find that a lot of developers still use hints of "painted on" shadows as the realtime counterparts are often not all the way there yet. Huge games like call of duty have relied on technically outdated techniques to develop their games for ages now (some also based on very old engines.)
However, this will likely disappear completely within 1 or 2 years. Having everything lit real time is also not yet as wide spread as it should be.
Baking shadows onto things is still alive and well.



I agree.



U got a link on that m8?

@Chris: That character seems to be from a game from over a dozen years ago tough... and that nazi flag is based upon a texture from textures.com
Haha! No mater how far shading progresses, photosourcing will always be a part of 3d, we are just too lazy as a species to not do it


Anywaysies: Dimoxinil, the Author of this game has an unfortunate habit of disappearing for months otherwise you could ask the man himself. I suppose you can try sending him a PM about his workflow I just don't know if he checks these.



-Wolf

LOL it was just a good pic as an example ....
But even looking at Character UV's now including GG characters shading/ shadows and details are added ..

Do you mean just a pink skin, 2 eyes and a mouth for example are all that should be needed in the future with no detail added leaving an AO Shader and real time light mapping to make a characters features look perfect in game because even ILM aren't there yet from what I have seen ?

@Wolf

There is diverse techniques, like Unity Enlighten to bake lightmaps but behaving in real time like dynamic lights. Or CryEngine that is real time and produces great results using SVOGI, or Unreal 4 Lightmass and distance shadow fields for example.
If you want maximum speed and you don't need a fully dynamic time of day and lighting, then lightmapping is a great way to go when it looks good enought.

It doesn't look like GG lightmapper bakes indirect global illumination lighting or sky ligthing ?
I find it somewhat too basic perhaps.

GG should hire this guy lol


@synchromesh

You can bake AO or paint shadows for distant objects, or for some mobile games or for games able to run on 10 years old hardware, but i never heard of it beeing used on modern games.

Today anything is shaders, for skin sub surface scattering is used in all games, for hair there is some specific shaders, the other parts can use physically based shading , or a detail texture or micro surface shaders for clothes or car paint for example.
Characters are fully dynamic lighted from years, with real time shadows, you don't paint shadowsuntil you make world of warcraft graphics (that looks good also).

This is a weapon texture from Battlefield 1, note how they have baked AO directly onto the texture.



Basically it's generally used in a lot of modern games, but not in an obvious way, it's used on smaller objects to mark out seems and cracks and cavities etc and is very subtle, then the rendered AO from light sources etc is overlaed to increase or decrease the size and depth of the ambient shadow depending on the amount of light cast on it.

Yup, but we also need AO from textures back. It looked better and I would think faster. Also GGs bake is uber slow. I would use Giles or Blender, both are free. Giles bakes really fast.

You guys should use the right terms.
Shadows is not AO. I know AO is baked in many games for some assets, and it is made automatically in software like Substance you don't need to paint it.
While shadowing in textures like Woordl of Warcraft or painting directionnal light shadows on your model textures is something really different and not used in modern games.

Its used in some modern games. Most of the cartoony games still use it. A lot of modern games still dont even use normal maps etc. Mostly games pumped out by Korea and China where they still hand paint textures. WOW clones etc, but AA games like Witcher 3, ESO etc all use AO normal maps etc. ESO has the option to turn on and off AO. They have both live AO and prebaked. As for shadows a lot of mmos etc use both baked and real time. Example: Lord of The Rings Online uses both. ESO uses both and so on. Its good to use both in your game so that players can adjust there graphics settings and not loose any real quality. Even if there fake shadows there better then no shadows and AO. As some one who use to only work on low poly and hand paint everything, its really hard to get use to not having to do so lol.

Now days its just model color fill and bake. Its sooo much easier, but I still gotta stop myself from adding hand painted shadows etc.

Example my Golem Im working on. Hes an AO and color bake.

That's what Belidos originally said ... He never said Manually paint them on as you have been suggesting

Blender and G4D can bake shadows, Blender can even bake Cycles Toon shaders
Here's a quickie from C4D with illumination and normal

Regardless on the game engine I'd probably bake illumination and AO , you have to texture models properly anyway so baking is just simple logical step