Product Chat / Try to not use "Red Cross" in your games

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JohnS_CZ
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 19:08 Edited at: 18th Jan 2017 19:12
I'm not a frequent poster. I don't know many of you guys that much - I only know you're very talented and you can do wonders in Game Guru.
But I thought I'll share THIS ARTICLE with you. Why? Because I don't want you to get into some trouble with your games, especially for some stupid reasons like this.
Healthpacks in GG use red cross symbol, so if you're going to use them, you could get the same message as Prison Architect devs.
And even through health pack texture can be edited, and if necessary replaced in a patch if it happens, I'm sure last thing you want to deal with is some legal stuff about red cross symbol on a healthpack or something
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 19:17
Interesting article! Who'da thunk?
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granada
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 19:28
You would think they could spend public money on better things.dont surprise me in the least.

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3com
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 19:49
Amazing!
Quote: "Healthpacks in GG use red cross symbol"

Nor, it does not; just use 4 white rects over a red background.

Now seriously, it does not worry me about GG, since likely you'll need a game with very masive audience, to be accurate for them.
There are a lot of people around the games, and a popular game can be an interisting way to be heard by many people, and a good opportunity to send a message.
Triple AAA thought, could be the target.

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rolfy
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 20:39 Edited at: 18th Jan 2017 20:56
Interesting and I doubt many would know this so good info for game designers who, when it really comes down to it would have to put in very little effort to change the graphics. I reckon several of the bigger companies have probably received the same kind of notice and just did that without whining and moaning about it so this pair in my opinion are using this to advertise their game, they go from saying it was no big deal to swap out the graphic to ranting about 'the waste of charity money' , Couple of whiny little girls or snide marketing....you decide? Either way it may sound a bit trivial but I don't see folks whining when told they cant use Disney or Coke logo's and for some reason the mighty dollar is more fearsome than the charitable symbol of protection in times of conflict.
Perhaps because no one is going to take on a company who can afford to sue them with real diligence. If they were to get you into court (unlikely since any sane person would be aware they won't win) no amount of bleating about a waste of money would make you right, it may look bad for the Red Cross as far as the media go. But again if you would do that over symbol in your game then I would hope the courts hammered them for being such prats.

So what wasted money are they talking about? Anyone can pull up a cease and desist template and send it off, it's only if your going to get dicky and refuse does it become a problem and lawyers get involved.
The Red Cross may not have a high profile on your home turf (for now) but we might think differently if living in a war zone when we come to understanding the point and not getting in a twist just cos they sent you cease and desist e-mail.
Belidos
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 20:40 Edited at: 18th Jan 2017 20:41
I think there's more to this than they're saying here.

Does that mean we're breaking the law displaying the sty georges cross too?, rubbish, the red cross has been on various countries flags for hundreds of years (three I can remember off the top of my head, st georges cross, national flag of tonga, swiss flag), and i'm pretty sure they predate the international red cross symbol, therefore it's a symbol that cannot fairly be copyrighted or trademarked, i'm also pretty sure the Geneva convention also lists the usage conditions in which it is a breach, not a flat ban, and computer games are very unlikely to be in those conditions :p ) I doubt any court of law in the world would uphold their claim over something so silly.

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synchromesh
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 20:56 Edited at: 18th Jan 2017 20:57
Another pathetic " I got nothing better to do than cause grief to innocent people ...
Didn't catch what country that was in but the UK used the Red cross on loads of stuff as Belidos states ... Flags, Shields etc

In fact we don't even use the red cross much now as a medical emblem ... This is a UK ambulance ...
They look more like AA or RAC vans ... I cant remember the last time I saw a red cross in a hospital ..

The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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synchromesh
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 21:03 Edited at: 18th Jan 2017 21:04
Just add a circle ....Sorted .... Its an emblem but not The red cross specific

The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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rolfy
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 21:03 Edited at: 18th Jan 2017 21:09
I wouldn't confuse the symbol of the Red Cross with the St Georges Cross I can see a distinct difference, one is definitely fatter than the other and I wouldn't confuse the fat guy and the skinny guy unless I was blind, once they spoke I would know as I know the fat guy's voice. It is moot anyhow I doubt anyone is going to change the Law here and if it is covered by Law then we have to abide by the Law. I think it is ridiculous that the Law against not picking up your horse dung is still in effect in the UK cos I don't see those coppers doing that, the only ones I see on horseback nowadays (at least in public), leaving myself and other pedestrians knee deep in it which is unacceptable and one of these days I am going to tell them to arrest themselves
synchromesh
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 21:07 Edited at: 18th Jan 2017 21:08
So do they own a white cross as well ?
This is an official RED Medical box

The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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granada
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 21:21
And the red corner ,chill out guys not worth the typing time.

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rolfy
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 21:21
People risk their lives going into really nasty places as part of the Red Cross if they want to keep their symbol I'm with 'em


I have decided to use a Red Bull as my health pack cos that's what I am accustomed to after a rough night but pretty sure someone will tell me they own that too.
Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 21:44
In the US the Red cross is owned by Johnson & Johnson the bandaid company.
This is just a Publicity stunt to get advertising for their game. The Geneva convention
only covers wartime and recognized nations military. It does not cover peace time or
civilians that is how J&J got to copy write it here in the US.
The coffee is lovely dark and deep,and I have code to write before I sleep.
rolfy
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 21:57
Thats what I was thinking as I read it but can see the logic....what if England were overrun by Aliens and then you got folks running up to Football supporters looking for safety cos they are draped in The St Georges Flag. It could happen ya know!
synchromesh
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 22:00 Edited at: 18th Jan 2017 22:00
Quote: "In the US the Red cross is owned by Johnson & Johnson the bandaid company.
This is just a Publicity stunt to get advertising for their game. "

That sounds more like it ...... Its a lot more believable than the report ...
I'm pretty sure there would be a world wide announcement in the gaming industry
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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synchromesh
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 22:02
Quote: "I have decided to use a Red Bull as my health pack "

Not the official I hope or that will be an infringement
The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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rolfy
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 22:04 Edited at: 18th Jan 2017 22:06
Dang!

You used the word 'official' in that case it must be official then.
TGPEG
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 22:09
Templars got away with it.


Entire stadium did it there:


They're just brazen.
synchromesh
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Posted: 18th Jan 2017 23:14
Ye whos not to say they ripped it off the Templars or Saint George start with
Or maybe LEGO !! .. LOL

The only person ever to get all his work done by "Friday" was Robinson Crusoe..
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Ratall
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 02:55
For what is worth this is what the International Committee of the Red Cross say on their web site.

Quote: "The red cross emblem – a red cross on a white ground – is a symbol of protection (protective use) and of membership of the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement (indicative use). In times of armed conflict it is the visible sign of the protection conferred by the Geneva Conventions on the victims and on those who come to their aid; in peacetime it shows that a person or object is linked to the International Red Cross and Red Crescent Movement, of which the International Committee of the Red Cross is the founding body. Hence the emblem is also a symbol of the Movement's seven Fundamental Principles: humanity, impartiality, neutrality, independence, voluntary service, unity and universality.
"


https://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/5a6j7j.htm

Of course whether they can take action against someone for miss-using/miss-appropriating the symbol is a matter for the laws that apply in the jurisdiction that the alleged miss-use/miss-appropriation occurred. If in doubt err on the side of caution and not use the cross or consult a qualified legal practitioner.

The ICRC site also provides a document suggesting model legislative provisions to be used by States as guidance in the drafting of legislation on the use and protection of the red cross, red crescent and red crystal emblems.

https://www.icrc.org/en/download/file/1054/model-law-emblem-icrc-eng.pdf

Quod cito fit, cito perit.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 11:39
I think I will also go with publicity stunt too. The infringement was real but making it a news story helped both the game and the Red Cross organization get some air-time. Nothing wrong with publicity of course, and when you finish your dream game and start treading the boards to sell your masterpiece, you will find a bit of PR goes a long way
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Mouaa
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 14:38 Edited at: 19th Jan 2017 14:41
Yep, this is disguised advertising, one time again.
Make red crosses in your game if you want more exposure and free advertising lol
devlin
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Posted: 19th Jan 2017 17:54 Edited at: 19th Jan 2017 18:17
red cross no more hanging my flag out the window then,

In July 1870, following the outbreak of war between France and Prussia, Colonel Loyd-Lindsay (later Lord Wantage of Lockinge) wrote a letter to The Times calling for a National Society to be formed in Britain following the example of other European nations. On 4 August 1870 a public meeting was held in London and a resolution passed that "a National Society be formed in this country for aiding sick and wounded soldiers in time of war and that the said Society be formed upon the Rules laid down by the Geneva Convention of 1864".
The British National Society for Aid to the Sick and Wounded in War was formed, giving aid and relief to both warring armies during the Franco-Prussian War and in subsequent wars and campaigns during the 19th century under the protection of the red cross emblem.
In 1905 the British National Society for Aid to the Sick and Wounded in War was reconstituted as British Red Cross and granted its first Royal Charter in 1908 by HM King Edward VII and Queen Alexandra, who became its president.
The Red Cross required a huge number of skilled volunteers if it was to be prepared for its wartime role. In 1907 a permanent structure of local Branches was adopted and extended the presence of the British Red Cross to communities around the country.
The Voluntary Aid Scheme was introduced in 1909 and ensured that Voluntary Aid Detachments (VADs) were formed in every county in England whose members would provide aid to the territorial medical forces in times of war.


anyone interested see how the union jack was made up ,
https://www.patriotwood.com/blogs/news/37922689-the-flags-that-make-up-the-union-jack
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Belidos
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Posted: 20th Jan 2017 16:49 Edited at: 20th Jan 2017 16:50
Fr those who son't want to risk it, i will be uploading this onto my free models thread when i get home tonight .....


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Belidos
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Posted: 20th Jan 2017 21:02
I've added the above first aid box to my free models thread, ive also included scripts to allow you to collect the kits and use them later, and a placeholder model to put the use later script in.

https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/214099?page=2#msg2568769

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granada
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Posted: 20th Jan 2017 21:11
Quote: "I've added the above first aid box to my free models thread, ive also included scripts to allow you to collect the kits and use them later, and a placeholder model to put the use later script in"


Very nice of you,thanks

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OldFlak
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2017 09:50 Edited at: 23rd Jan 2017 09:52
Yeah, good info for artists to know.

I came across this issue when mucking around with 2D game dev some years back, which is why I used this for the T-71 Shuttle I put in the store.



It is recognizable as a symbol for health, but is not anything like the Red Cross one. At least I hope - lol.

It may be considered padantic on the part of the Red Cross, but not worth the trouble to get in any kind of legal tango over, much easier to just acknowledge their stand and avoid the issue.

Reliquia....
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 23rd Jan 2017 20:25
Quote: "It may be considered padantic on the part of the Red Cross, but not worth the trouble to get in any kind of legal tango over, much easier to just acknowledge their stand and avoid the issue.
"


I agree. Like Rolfy said,

Quote: "People risk their lives going into really nasty places as part of the Red Cross if they want to keep their symbol I'm with 'em
"


For all they do, that cross is not for you.
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