I guess this is not a bug but more like an install issue.
I just got Game Guru. I thought that it was 64 bit but in the windows task manager it comes up as 32 bit.
Does any one know what I have done wrong.

Got from steam on Saturday 14/05/2016 installed and works well.

Hi Mortt ..Welcome to the forums and community

GameGuru is 32 bit only ...There is no 64bit version
However I believe it has an increased memory cap to 4gb for 64bit users

If it were 64-bit we would have zero memory issues

I wish!

Ah well yes, you need plenty of memory as well 8 gig is getting old hat these days though, but would be plenty for GG I imagine! Not really looked into it of late, but I bet you can go mad these days with 64gig or more. That would be nice

The problem with going 64-bit is that your end users might only have 32-bit operating systems (would be good if someone could find out how many Steam users are running 32-bit). Now we have moved to Visual Studio and C++, making a 64-bit binary has become possible, but my main concern is maintaining two builds for every beta/update and the scenario of a large 64-bit standalone not running on a 32-bit users PC.

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

Expand the OS section as you can see 32bit makes up less than 10% of the total Steam users in the latest survey.

I think it would help massively for future updates. For instance say we get terrains voted up and an infinite map. We wouldn't be worrying about running out of memory so easily. At the moment GG would really struggle to populate a huge map with scenery, both performance wise and memory wise. Add in baking and well we max out fast at the moment with any large scene as it is. With 64-bit we are limited only to the memory we have and of course the end users memory. Making a game only run if you have 16 gig of ram would be rather limiting your market I imagine.

I'm unsure how much effort would go into converting to 64-bit and also how many users here only have a 32-bit O/S. For me it would be welcome down the line (it can only improve things) but obviously others may disagree. If only 64-bit meant twice as fast

if it means keeping 32bit and a 64bit then i'd rather not, there's already so much to do that it would slow updates down too much. we might not have great performance but it's manageable with 32bit and would be better to update to 64bit later when there's less of the core engine to complete.

This is new. I have never heard of developers who are in favor of keeping a slow, laggy 32-bit over 64-bit. I have had 16 GB ram on my system since I started using WindowsXP x64 ages ago, then Vista x64 and now Windows 7 x64. Majority of gamers on Steam use x64 OS too with 8GB minimum ram on their systems. Meanwhile, GG struggles by utilizing only 4GB ram and low cores.

x64 version should be priority over useless features like "Free player app" or "Third person mode", along with some others which are way down in the voted features list.

If there is so much to do, then I hope the GG developers are going to ignore Free app and Third Person until everything else on that vote list is done.

64bit here.

64 bit for sure

64 bits has my vote!

But bear in mind some users only have 4gb ram and a 32bit system and are very much looking forward to third person being completed.

Yeah but does GG really want to create a game engine that caters to people who refuse to move on to x64 era?

Again, go with Steam audience. That's where we all want to sell our games, right? If majority there are x64, GG should be ignoring anyone who says 32-bit is OK.

As for "Third person".. I really doubt the capability of most users to create a third person game that won't be mocked to oblivion. Unless they have Splinter Cell or Tomb Raider level of artists for third person animations+art, their game will be a laughing stock and YouTube fodder. I am guessing the people voting for "third person" and free app are the same who think they will be making the next Tomb Raider or Call of Duty.. using GG.

At least with FPS you don't have to embarrass yourself with [ MOD EDIT ] third person animations and character models..


PS: I am sure there are some here who CAN spend money on hiring people for amazing 3rd person art or programming the next COD. Good for you. You are a minority, just like 32-bit users and XP users.

PPS: I REALLY hope GG developers don't actually go with that vote list.

Please do not use profanity on the forums of any kind

EDIT: I just saw this edit. No idea which profanity I used. I probably used it in new post too then. Didn't know it was classified as profanity here, will censor myself in future.

Well I myself have voted for Third person for every character and no I don't want to make the next Tomb Raider .... But I am interested in the Isometric style of game that with a bit of vision and thought could make a good playable game


Development will go by the voting list ... That's why its there ....


Not according to the voting list ... Everyone wants something now and it just cant be all done at once so going by the Majority is the best way.

totally 64 bit. over ebe.
in fACT MINI RANT

will you please hurry the heck up with ebe not to use it but to get it out of the way so that other things can be done.

anyone who want a complex this and that need to think about others who are waiting for infinate, ai, systems, particles 64 bit etc etc etc. ebe has had over enough time, and i for one will not be a user of it. some will and fair play but come on guys get your basics and lets not do ebe for 70 years just because you want it. why not get a 3rd party person. infact someone as done a load of building bits there are infinite prop and lots of buildings everywhere

yet extremely dumb soldiers etc. whats wrong with this picture!!!!

i am close to quitting to be honest losing the will here

errrm, 'he still uses 32 bit' is the modern one liner that replaces 'rare as hens teeth' - lol.

Definately 64 bit here

I am not a pro coder or anything (nor pro anything for that matter lol), but have dabbled with a bit of Visual Studio, and was under the impression you could compile for both 32 and 64 bit from the same source code - is that not possible?

In any case definately 64 bit here since Win7 years ago and Win10 now - only way to go. Devs want power - more power.... mau hah ha hah haaaa....

Reliquia....

First off, there are some very talented animators on this board that can make a third person character... Second....... MOCAP.

oh yeah, 64

Another reason for 64 bit would be VR, which will be included (eventually, that was promised!). Oculus Rift requires a minimum Win7 64 bit according to their specs page. I don't know if or how well it would work on 32 bit XP. I guess I could dig my old P4 beast out of the closet and find out, but I think it wouldn't be worth the bother. While I sympathize with those with 32 bit systems, I would say it's time to move on.

I have to agree .... Some of what the community have achieved with GameGuru right now is astounding ...
Just to confirm ...I am not against 64 bit ...It just maybe needs to wait its turn .... Understandably only 10% of steam users are 32 bit ...doesn't sound a lot
But 10% of 12 million is still over a million users on steam .... No idea how many of our users are still 32 bit though ?

I wonder that myself, but I'd bet they are having a pathetic experience with it! I just popped a GTX 1080 in my desktop yesterday and ran Morning Mountain Stroll. I got between 70 and 80 fps with all settings on high. Now while I'm no expert in such things, I expected more! It was visually fantastic, but the difference between that and my laptop running the same is about 30 fps. Not a huge margin for what is supposed to be the most powerful graphics card ever made. (Specs in sig). I realize this topic has been beaten to death by many, many other users, but I've got to say it as well: everything else I run is remarkably better. Something is holding this thing up!

I was the same ..went from a 750 to a 980...Not sure if it has a limit ..... On the other hand .... as long as its a constant 70 to 80 fps then no problem ...the human eye wont notice much above 50 / 60 fps as smooth anyway .... That's a pretty full map if you think of it as a single level then anything created well on GG should run great for you

So far anything for me is smooth as silk

I was always taught a theory regarding old games ...some "old" 3D run to fast to control ... others seem slower than the dos originals ...
The theory was the machine / card was to fast for the game .... This caused the game to jump frames making it look slower ( if that makes sense )

It seems if games , Engines have a cap then this can happen .... If true ... then GG would seem to run slower in 5 years time with our Nvidia 5000.s

Of that I'm aware, and it is a pretty full level, and like I said, visually fantastic! But I wonder about the older hardware running something like that. It's gotta suck! I wonder what an urban level, with lots of buildings, etc. would run on those machines as well. Perhaps I will fire up my ol' P4 and find out.


EDIT: I think what my point is boiling down to regarding older systems is do they really want to market GG to an audience that isn't going to enjoy it?

I have run across this myself, especially with DOS games! Game over before I can react, and just a blur of light across the monitor, lol.

Ranting on about the voting list and how you feel 64bit over 32bit is more important won't change a thing.....I suggest you jump on over to the voting board and suggest it as a feature to go on the list. Then you can feel free to canvas users here and on Steam to vote for it.
It might not be a great idea to knock other users choices to get your point across all the same. To be absolutely clear if your statement that any third person characters would be rubbish is true then you wouldn't be seeing many quality npc's either since it's pretty much the same thing to create either.
If some of the above statements are true then it will be FPS with rubbish npc's which will have the same result on Steam and You tube regarding your game, you would be better to vote for AI since 64bit with rubbish AI isn't going to sell your game either.

In a nutshell the developers will continue to work according to the voting board and you won't change that with comments about other users and Artists abilities around here.

Fact. That guy wasn't very diplomatic, was he?

GG can either create REALLY good FPS games or it can create average FPS/3rd person games. Focussing on FPS enhancements, which it already HAS in-game, makes more sense instead of wasting time adding third person mode or MP (for now, not saying MP is useless feature). Unity is recognized as a engine with users creating average or below average games and GG is slowly getting that reputation already. Anything created with GG will get that reputation because all games look and work.. average (most I saw on YouTube didn't even have save/load feature before they decided to sell their game to gamers.. yeah).

Anyway, let's take some useful features from the voting list which CAN help GG users create really fun FPS games:


Create games like DeusEx and Borderland. People will ignore your [ MOD EDIT ] character models if you can create a fun game. DeusEx, when released, was known to have some of THE worst graphics (and having modded that game after it was out, people didn't care about graphics for that at all). Borderlands is same, only it hides its terrible quality under a cartoon paint and RPG features.



Wait wait, let's add STEALTH into the mix. Create the next Thief, or hell, DeusEx (which also used stealth ALONG with action).


Again, Thief and DeusEx had terrible character models. But people didn't care.


When you are going to try to make your next Uncharted, people WILL care how your primary character model will LOOK & ANIMATE. You fail there? That's enough for YouTuber's to destroy your game. They won't care how many other amazing gameplay features you add. Same goes for x64. Your game runs like crap on 1080 cards? Get ready to face the public ire and see your game rating plummet on Steam (if you get there) just cause your game doesn't run at 200 FPS on their next-gen cards which can power a dying sun.



/anotherRant
/personView

Again ..... Please do not use profanity in your posts ...

You keep saying this, the truth is if third person is worked on then the quality models will be made to use in your games, or are you saying outright that there is absolutely no chance of ANY Artist providing GameGuru with quality third person characters? I disagree.

You may think this is an argument to drop voted for features (there are things I would rather see myself at the top) but it wont change the fact that as a community driven project the vote is King and you will need a better argument to get the community to change it.

As you say Unity is perfectly capable of creating average or below average games, so is any engine in the right hands, GameGuru by it's very nature as a drag and drop engine aimed at those new to game design will throw up a large number of below average games. Particularly since it has so many missing and needed features at this time, making it 64bit won't cure all that at this point I reckon and though it may improve performance it will still be some time before it can create a really awesome game. Comparing to studio games out there is as far from reality as it gets, rather than with decent Indie games which is where real comparisons should be.

OK, i'm now picking myself up from the floor from laughing. You spout how 3rd person is a useless feature, then you list some features you want added which you think would be more useful, however you failed to understand that this whole list of features (apart from the weapons editor) can be pretty much achieved already using LUA scripting. Talking about useless features, there's a whole list of them right there. Those items are lower down the list than third person for one simple reason, because third person is (at the moment) a more popular choice in the community.

As to 3rd person ending up having bad characters and animations and making GG look bad, that's nothing to do with GG and entirely up to the person creating the game. You can import your own characters and animations and assign them to third person right now if you want to, it takes a little work (much less work now we have the FBX2GG character animation tool), but you can put any character you like into third person.

The only major thing that third person is missing at the moment is the ability to use weapons other than the staff, which is pretty much the main focus of the feature listed on the voting board.

As Rolfy said, what features are needed and wanted are personal preference, and with the voting system in place it's up to the community to tell us (via voting) what the majority want first. If what you want isn't being done right now that means you are in the minority and you will have to wait.

Not sure what you are saying here, are you saying GG is incapable of creating good games because lack of features ? I beg to differ, nor am I going to entertain the argument, as it has been done before, to death.....

3rd person/top down/isometric is what I focused on the last odd 6 months, and boy am I having lots of fun with it I can tell you now, top down and iso games are absolutely nothing to laugh about, it is the most fun I had on steam with my clothes on.Adding additional game play types, not only will it draw in more people, it will actually help FPS games as well.

You couldn't be more wrong, I have all 3 borderlands games and you can actually play the game with simply disabling the the cel shading, I guess you weren't aware of this, you don't even seem aware that the whole cel shading of borderlands was actually an accident and the developer liked it that much and decided to be different and allow the game to be truly unique.Terrible quality ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderlands_%28video_game%29






Seems to me you don't know what you are talking about, not in the least bit.

If you are planning to make a game to sell on Steam, you better not have characters others developers are already using in their games. There is already a stigma against people using ready-made assets and you can bet that all of your third person store models will be used and re-used without any changes whatsoever. People these days don't read reviews on gaming sites, they watch gameplay videos on YouTube and can tell when people are re-using assets. Basically, that'll be a big strike against your game from your audience.


No it's an argument for moving those features down the list. No need to drop them.

I didn't say that. I said it has a reputation for creating such games only, now, thanks to people trying to create next Amnesia using store assets or next Call of Duty. A lot of good games are created in Unity but they are overshadowed by crapware. Gamers now see a Unity game, even from a AAA studio, and already decide to skip it most of the time. By perfecting a genre, like FPS, GG can avoid that by at least allowing every developer to easily add a lot of the features I quoted in that list. Even a newbie developer can create a game with all those features, instead of churning out another mediocre walking simulator, like with Unity (where it takes more effort to add such features, unless you spend time learning a paid plugin like Playmaker).



I know they can be added through scripting. The reason why I mentioned them was because they would be more useful features to add to a game engine which is promoting itself as something that can create a game in few mins compared to something like Unity and Unreal. I know it's a crazy thought, adding basic features for an FPS game for FPS gameplay already shipped out of the box, but I am all about crazy ideas.



Nah, that's just crazy thought. Everyone knows that Gone Home and Dear Esther is what good games are all about.


You haven't proven me wrong and yes, I was aware of that little "fact" since the day first game was announced. And it proves absolutely nothing, that's why I didn't mention it. Pointless fact, but thanks for mentioning it.



Adding third person can be done after perfecting FPS mode and features that compliment it.

Also, not sure why people are worried that my views are suddenly going to be followed by developers. I know they'll stick to their voting list, I just don't think it's a good idea. Personal view, nothing to be worried about.



Anyway, in the end this thread is about x64, not going to go off topic more and more (kinda pointless anyway).

What exactly has this to do with your arguments about features? Third person or no third person, people are still going to use store bought/free assets, and there's nothing TGC can do and no feature they can add that will change that.

Saying that an engine is shoddy and has bad features because people keep using stock models is akin to saying all BMW's are dangerous cars because some of the BMW drivers are morons and bad at driving.

As I said earlier, it's not the engines fault people are too lazy or cant afford unique models, and to be fair, that's what stock and store bought models are there for in the first place.

There's nothing wrong with using stock models, it's when people use them as focal points, that's when it looks bad. The best way to use stock models is as background scenery that blends in with everything else, and use unique models for the obvious in your face things. So for example a background character walking along a street in the distance would be fine as a stock character, but a character you interact with needs to be a little more unique.

I'm utterly lost for words!! .... is he for real!! .....

I'd bet if either Rolfy or WOI released a game on Steam, there wouldn't be a single stock asset among them (unless they were the original artist), and their characters would look amazing. I, on the other hand, would use 100% stock assets and my game would look like crap, lol.

This thing about stock assets really annoys me. The store is there for that purpose, same as Unity, same as Unreal. In reality there aren't many that can do all tasks associated with game making. The stores for each engine are there to help coders get graphics and vice versa. Sound is an issue as well. I'm sure many people here can't throw a good tune together for their game either. I don't think there is anything wrong with it as long as you make a decent game at the end of the day. The main reason assets get a bad rep on Steam is because the idiots releasing the games generally don't even make a game, just put up a demo included with the assets.

Users who automatically dismiss a game because of it's engine are not very enlightened. Unity is a great engine, fast and powerful. Just because people release entire asset packs as a game doesn't mean the engine is rubbish, just that the people involved are trying to make a quick buck.

Anyway, back to the thread, 64 bit is a no brainer for me. It gives you as much memory as you will ever need and that's got to be good for people wanting AAA graphics. 4 gig is pretty small these days and if you DO have a 32-bit system you can't even use all of that! I'll guess that many people have a 64-bit system these days and don't even know it. They may have a 32-bit OS, but their CPU is probably 64-bit. It's been a long time since 32-bit CPU's were available. So many would only have to buy a 64-bit version of Windows to upgrade to 64-bit, not actually update their hardware.

You can use stock assets and create impressive work, if you're willing to put in the time.

Of course, you will *ALWAYS* benefit from custom assets, but the reality is most people don't have the time, money, or inclination. I myself like to find uses for every model I have. Honestly though, there's SO MANY FREE MODELS out there from gameguru files, or the freebies section of the board, store, etc.. you really have very little excuse to use the absolute base model listing.

All of that aside, what's that got to do with 64bit?

Unlike a lot of you, I'm not a longtime FPS Creator user. I never used the product. I was a Lite-C and Acknex user and before that, good old GCS.

I invested in Game-Guru/FPSCR because at the time I was impressed by the inclusion of shaders at such a low price point. It was very difficult to find a shader-enabled engine that was under 300-800 dollars as an entry point. Over the years a significant amount of work has gone into adding additional features, and I'm happy with that.

64bit is important, as are other features. But we have to remember that Lee's a one man party.
I had an email convo with him this AM about adding a feature for plugin support to the GUI. He was amenable to it. This would, in my opinion, would be a good use of time considering it'd open up a single part of the engine to the community for modification and thus act as a work multiplier.

Unfortunately implementation would take time, which of course, is in short supply with a one man crew.

As to inventory systems, etc - at least we can say a lot of that is available on the store. Which for me, is a huge boon. However CORE elements of the game engine should have some priority; things which cannot be coded in lua or as a plugin (such as 64bit support). That's my two cents at least.

As to level design; there's a lot you can do with the stock/base/free assets if you try.



There's not a single pay model in this scene. My only complaint is how bright that blood turned out, but that's easily tuneable. There's some base models, Voodoo's free interior bunker set, and some X10 models. Point being, it doesn't look like ****. You have to take the time to put together a game and do it properly. And you need some direction on how to do that (hence my tutorial series) . That applies to ANY game engine, not just GG. Here's some 'winners' from other engines:

Unreal engine 4
One of the most powerful engines out there, clearly a winner in the current market ...


Acknex 8, Aka Gamestudio
A powerful engine if you pay the $$ and put in the time produced this unmitigated disaster:


Unity
Unity is a common choice for game developers these days. Not cheap, but not awful if time is invested.
http://www.pcgamer.com/air-control-may-be-the-worst-game-on-steam/
You have to read it to believe it, but that is a pretty painful game.

On and on it goes.

Game-guru, if nothing else, provides a *DECENT* level of base quality control. Things you know you'll see in a "bad" title:
Rounded terrain, looking very blobbish
Stock assets (of course, why not)
Bad lighting
Simple gameplay (shoot, kill, repeat)
AI that just stands there.

Still, all told, it doesn't do half bad for what it tries to accomplish - provide the tools to make a game quickly for beginners while at the same time allowing really good scenes to get made/games to be created.

The downside is indy games consume a lot of life cycles to make.

Just ask this guy:
http://www.moddb.com/games/my-little-apocalypse-world

He's spent years making one of the best titles we'll probably see on the Game-Guru engine. But look at the results! It's a great looking game. So yeah, kind of rambling here. I think my point is made though.

Wow lol quite a debate here, i actually like some of the stock and free models i do now create my own for some levels.
As to x64 sure it'll be a good thing when Lee gets round to it. Personally im happy to wait for things to be introduced as it gives me time to get used to the engine and to learn some lua etc which im not very good at (getting better) and other things.
I have nearly built now two pretty big games and run a x64 system but in all honesty they now after working out what slowed them down work pretty smoothly.
TBH the thing about GG is not the rush for this and that its more how the COMMUNITY stick together, help each other and the main point have some fun in doing it!
lol that's my ten penneths worth

So you are saying that in order to make a good game you would have to create your own set of fps hands and your own weapons because You couldn't use the stock ones....

@LEE BAMBER
you better take the store down right now! I don't want to look foolish on steam.

Can anyone send me a level where he reach the ram cap? For real. If I start any of the tutorial levels, my ram does not go over 2gb, even when it laggs like hell. So if you can send me a level,screenshot where this problem hit me or you, I would be happy. Otherwise this is just a useless discussion where everybody gets angry, off topic and I find we should close this thread.

I mean everybody has valid points, engines here, models there. Is it my game if I use stock,...? I can not say it.

But if anybody has a prove that the 4gb cap is not enought, please show me I am really interested in it as a programmer, because ram was never a problem for me

Thanks in advance.

I could easily make a map that runs out of memory. Still not much point is there? I have run out several times making GG titles. Not recently, no I'll admit that, but that is down to the things I work on and my knowledge of GG. I just don't bother going that far these days, so memory is never an issue (performance kills it well before then). Try adding 30 different NPC's to a huge varied level with 2048x2048 textures for every building. You would run out of memory really fast. I've sent Lee enough maps over the years with that exact issue to know it is easy to do. GG is way better now than it was in that area, but ultimately, with graphics getting better and better, 4 gig is just not going to cut the mustard.