Product Chat / Architecture in GG

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Fendrik
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2016 12:26
Just a quick question (searching for "architecture" didn't get me anywhere) ...

what's the "best" way to get some architecture into GG ? Since the Easy Building Editor is still a ways off, I am trying to model a (real) house and import it into GG.

I am using Blender.

Is it recommended that I make the whole house as one object ? That seems to work, but getting the UV maps / textures right is a bit tricky ...
Or would it be better to model parts and then stick them together in GG ?

How was this handled with the buildings that are available for GG ?

Cheers,
Fendrik
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2016 13:14
For store purposes and 90% of the users. One building.

I myself prefer to have the building split into meshes that represent the same textures and collision style.
There for I dont have to multi textures, can still use the shaders, and dont have to have any extra collision then what I need.

Saving processes for other stuff.
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Fendrik
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2016 13:45
Quote: "I myself prefer to have the building split into meshes that represent the same textures and collision style.
There for I dont have to multi textures, can still use the shaders, and dont have to have any extra collision then what I need."


Myke, can you elaborate on that ? I read the words, but don't understand the significance.

Are you using "components" that use a standard "box" collision ? In essence creating "building blocks" ? I've used the "polygon collision" mesh on the imported model and that seems to work, although I am not sure what performance hits I am getting with that.

What program do you use for modelling ? Using Blender seems to work reasonably well (except for having to scale everything 10x, it seems), but maybe there is another more suitable tool ?

I tried the "one building" approach with a single texture (2048x2048), but that size seems to be too small for the faces in the UV map (e.g. the ceiling tiles are actually way too big) ... I am still working my way around that ... maybe it would be sensible to use a shader texture in Blender and bake it to a PNG file ?

Using shaders (in GG?) is something that I have not yet gotten into ... how are shaders applied to a (static) object ? I'm just starting to use the shaders in Blender and have only really worked with "normal" UV maps up to this point.

Cheers,
Frendrik
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2016 14:15
Say I have a building with windows, doors, stairs, some wall columns and so on.

Places that would not need collision based on what they are by or the player will not be able to get to them.
Ceiling - no collision needed, why calculate it.
Wall columns on walls - Wall has the needed collision, so why add it to the columns sitting there.
The actual roof of the building needs no collision unless you are planning on walking on it.
Window separate, as transparency works best on those objects,when they are not attached to any other mesh.
Door will be separate as you may want them to animate and need to be there own objects anyway.

Most everything will need poly collision (1) so you can walk around inside with out being blocked by collision.

Now you build this stuff around the 0,0,0 of the model program, and export each piece from there locations so you can assemble the building by inserting each piece from the same snap location in the editor.

I use 3ds max for modelling and animation and have been for 20 years.

For a single building approach I would use 4096 x 4096 and sometimes that is not big enough and I will need to split faces.
Polygon limit in GameGuru is 22000 polys for any single object, or GameGuru will omit anything over that limit.

Use the entity basic shader in GameGuru and only use textures for mapping in Blender. Direct x must have textured UV mapping and nothing procedural.If you use procedural textures, then you will need to bake them out.
_D for diffuse and opacity - DXT1 compression except when using opacity, then use DXT5 compression as it adds the alpha channel
_N for normal maps - DXT 1 compression
_S for specular - DXT1 compression
_i for emissive or glow -this is a black and white map, with white indicating what you want to glow. DXT1 compression

,png files can be used, but they are slow to decompress in the game engine. .DDs format has various compression that allow for different things and opacities and Alphas.
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Fendrik
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2016 15:19
Thanks Myke ! That really helps my understanding !

When you write, that the individual objects need to be built around 0,0,0 ... should the origin of the object be the center of the object (as would be the standard in Blender, I think) or should it be such that the "bottom" of the object along the "up" axis (Y or Z, depending on the tool used ) should be set to the origin ...

Boy, trying to describe what I mean ... it gets more convoluted with every word ...

Say you have a cube, would the origin be set to the face that is supposed to be resting on the ground (and all geometry would then be on the positiv Y axis - the green axis in GG) ?

Cheers,
Fendrik
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2016 15:30
yes the origin of the building parts should be such that the foundation sits on the 0 elevation. The whole build can be centered about the 0,0 origin then. That should keep collision in check with all the parts.
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2016 15:43 Edited at: 22nd Feb 2016 15:44
Just an Fyi, a Blender unit = 1 inch in Game Guru! Follow that and you shouldn't need to scale. Also, when you do change the size or location of anything in Blender, it's a good idea to be in object mode and apply translation, rotation, and scale (ctrl+A), before exporting. This isn't necessary with many models, but it is good practice.
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Fendrik
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2016 15:49

Okee Dokee ... got it ...

@Jerry: I'm still learning my way around Blender ... have used Lightwave for a number of years, so getting used to keyboard shortcuts (and mouse click behaviour) is the most difficult for me. Yup, learned about Ctrl-A already the hard way ...

It's actually too bad that the Blender .x export add on has no "scale" parameter to adjust the exported file ... the slider in GG when importing does work, but it's a bit fiddly ...

Oh well, I remember reading (or hearing) that there might be another import format down the pike for us ... let's see how that pans out.

In the meantime, I can start playing around ... and the "rapid prototyping" I can do in GG really is part of the fun, isn't it ?!

Cheers,
Fendrik
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 22nd Feb 2016 22:19
It may have been mentioned but get yourself a copy of Steam version 2.69 from their site, not the Steam one, as they did something really bad with the X file export which you will need to get good models out.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2016 02:04
Quote: " may have been mentioned but get yourself a copy of Steam version 2.69 from their site, not the Steam one, as they did something really bad with the X file export which you will need to get good models out."


Ye they messed up in the 2.70 series .... As Lee states V 2.69 export for .X is very stable
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KeithC
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2016 13:11
To add to that; you cannot make a model in 2.7x and export it through 2.69, it appears. FBX import in GG would be a good thing, as there are a few things that you could utilize in 2.7x for media creation.
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Emrys
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2016 13:23
FBX import would be a god send ! when you got a few minutes Lee
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Fendrik
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2016 14:20
Quote: "_D for diffuse and opacity - DXT1 compression except when using opacity, then use DXT5 compression as it adds the alpha channel
_N for normal maps - DXT 1 compression
_S for specular - DXT1 compression
_i for emissive or glow -this is a black and white map, with white indicating what you want to glow. DXT1 compression"


How does one control which compression gets used ? I'm using the XNConvert program to get from PNG to DDS (I used AwesomeBump to generate the _N and _S files) and I do not get an option to choose the compression.

And is that even truly significant ?

Cheers,
Fendrik
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Fendrik
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2016 14:23

Hmmm ... I have used 2.76 and the included .x exporter ... seems to work OK ... just need to make sure that I have flipped some of the normals to point into the desired direction ...

And it certainly is fun to create something in Blender and then seeing that in GG

Cheers,
Fendrik
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HarryWever
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2016 21:54
Quote: "And it certainly is fun to create something in Blender and then seeing that in GG "


Well thats indeed Always fun, the real first item i made was just a box. for fps creator, after a lot of hik ups i've got it finaly in game.
and that was a awesome feeling...
Just a box, but i made it...

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Fendrik
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Posted: 23rd Feb 2016 22:12 Edited at: 23rd Feb 2016 22:12
Quote: " the real first item i made was just a box."


That's too funny ... my first go was also a box (see pic) ... now I've got a wall and a partially transparent stained glass window ... not too much longer and I'll be ready for "big boy pants"

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DVader
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Posted: 24th Feb 2016 14:02
Quote: "Hmmm ... I have used 2.76 and the included .x exporter ... seems to work OK ... just need to make sure that I have flipped some of the normals to point into the desired direction ..."


Yes, but it's far easier to load the model into 2.69 and export without the need to change normal directions. I heard you can also copy the direct x exporter from 2.69 and use in newer versions. Personally I have 2 versions installed, 2.69 and 2.71, not bothered to upgrade it yet. I'm actually surprised the exporter is not fixed yet in newer versions.


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Belidos
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Posted: 24th Feb 2016 19:43 Edited at: 24th Feb 2016 19:43
Quote: "Yes, but it's far easier to load the model into 2.69 and export without the need to change normal directions. I heard you can also copy the direct x exporter from 2.69 and use in newer versions. Personally I have 2 versions installed, 2.69 and 2.71, not bothered to upgrade it yet. I'm actually surprised the exporter is not fixed yet in newer versions."


Are you sure that 2.69 exports without the incorrect normals? I've just tested the same model in 2.69 and 2.76b, see below for a picture, one of the dragons was 2.69 exported, the other 2.76b exported, note how they both have exactly the same incorrect normal.

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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 24th Feb 2016 19:48
2.69 won't fix a model made in 2.7 and above.
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Belidos
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Posted: 24th Feb 2016 20:05 Edited at: 25th Feb 2016 07:42
Both made converted from NIF and put into 3DS Max, exported to OBJ, then imported into 2.69 and 2.76b separately to be exported to .x
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 24th Feb 2016 21:02
Try exporting from 3DSMAX as a 3DS model file, and importing directly to GameGuru. That might work also.
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 24th Feb 2016 22:44
If those are the Skyrim dragons, then the faces on the wings have crossed each other.

Just got a look at them from another user.

This happens in max export also, and is of no fault of the models programs.
these models need a little work, as inside the mouth is hollow and you can see thru the inside also.
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Belidos
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Posted: 25th Feb 2016 07:44
Quote: "If those are the Skyrim dragons, then the faces on the wings have crossed each other.

Just got a look at them from another user.

This happens in max export also, and is of no fault of the models programs.
these models need a little work, as inside the mouth is hollow and you can see thru the inside also."


Yup, they're Skyrim models, I've been playing with NifSkope to rip models from games to examine how the professionals are making them, i'm learning quite a bit this way.
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Fendrik
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Posted: 25th Feb 2016 09:50
Quote: "Try exporting from 3DSMAX as a 3DS model file, and importing directly to GameGuru. That might work also."


Lee,

should this work just like the .x import ?

I didn't realize that GG supported the importing of 3DS models ... any restrictions on that (e.g. no animations) ?

Cheers,
Fendrik
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Belidos
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Posted: 25th Feb 2016 10:08
Quote: "I didn't realize that GG supported the importing of 3DS models ... any restrictions on that (e.g. no animations) ?"


That's news to me too, i'l have to try that later on.
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 25th Feb 2016 12:46
3ds is a static format only, It is supposed to work thru the editor also. Was added for the sketchup people a while ago.
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