Can anyone give a definitive answer to dx11. Is it or isn't it being worked on? Not just talked about, but being pushed. There is just to much fuzzy information. Yes or no.

I've wondered this myself. I thought it would be in the next update, but it seems like the next update will consist of bug fixes and feature additions. I think perhaps they are still working on DX11 "behind the scenes"?

DX11 isn't currently being worked on, there are other features the team feel are much more urgent and affect users ability to create a game such as saving and loading games, creating indoor scenes (with building creator) and making AI work with these indoor scenes.

DX11 hasn't been dropped but it has been moved back a little bit to do these really core features first, which in many peoples eyes you simple can't make a game without. The graphics and speed of GameGuru are within an acceptable level to add more core features before having to devote a lot of time to a large update such as DX11, which will stop the team updating anything else for a period of a few months.

Sounds like a very sensible pragmatic approach to me. Cheers.

Looking forward to the building creator. It's been a long long wait.

Good to know, thanks!

Keep in mind that before the C++ re- write DX11 implementation would have been impossible but now we all know this can be added as development continues ... So personally I'm happy its features, features, Features and the DX11 is on hold whilst this is being done ...

I can live without the DX11 for the moment ... I just want GG to be at a stage where I can make great games from start to finish.
Adding DX11 later will be the icing on the cake ...

But that's just my opinion

Also remember that as they add these features there may be parts of the features which could use DX11 in the future, so i'm sure they would be doing bits of coding for DX11 as they add features so they don't have to do the work twice later on.

I don't think Lee is that organised He works on something when he is working on it. I doubt theres any DX11 stuff going on behind the scenes at the moment, the only work being a few tests before Xmas when he first got hold of a new version of Visual Studio. It seems as if most this year has been on strategy and planning than coding so far. Very little news on the product of late. Lee should mention some of the work Ravey is working on rather can keep telling us about meetings!

I will be far happier when occlusion works as it should do myself, as I still can't make anything run at decent speeds with a large still mostly empty map. Would be nice to get existing features working imo. I have no real interest in the building editor myself as yet, because I don't see it helping me with fps issues. Get stuff done and working, don't jump from feature to feature all the time leaving them half done. I had most my vote points on occlusion, it is now marked as done, yet I see no evidence that it is complete. In fact even Lee has said it needs some tweaking. Well it's been quite awhile since the xmas release, get it tweaked, fixed or whatever it needs! Can we not flit onto a building editor when the vote feature you have ticked off is clearly no where near working?

I sound cheesed off and I am a little. I just want GG to be better product and this will not be achieved by flitting from feature to feature leaving them half done. I would have though a micro update to help fix the niggles would be out by now.

Anyway had my rant for today. Suffice to say DX11 or no, I just want features to be completed before moving on to new ones.

Like real life... i just want to be able to swim

But those meetings are very important,..................you know,..................down the
pub with a few beers,................what better way to plan out your business strategy ?.

But joking aside, I agree with everything you said.

Two is a couple a few is more than two ... if the primary reason for holding back on DX11 is that it will be such a burden on time that not much else will trickle down to us, so be it.
The conversion to "C" took a significant amount of time also. Bite the bullet and let's get on with it.

With the amount of pop-in with both entities and shadows, this build of GG seems worse for me then the previous one. Really hope that the items getting ticked off that list (many of which should have been there from the go) are released in a working state before the next item is tackled.

There is also the issue that DX11 could actually decrease performance!

The occlusion system is in and working and the system behind it is really solid. The issue with items popping in is more about the entities themselves and the current values for when occlusion kicks in. The values that were used by Lee and Ravey obviously aren't working for everyone hence the horrible pop in. This was always expected to need tweaking, but the system itself is completed, it is hard to check it works with all media before release.

I don't want to get into an argument over occlusion, but being in the code and available does not mean it is working. Media issues aside it just doesn't have the sliders needed to work, it never had and it was silly to think one slider can do the job from the start. You can take the easy game maker thing too far. I'm sure it may be a solid system, but it does not work unless you turn it off (which is not working). I tried the map I have been having issues with using my own occluder script - presto! Extra fps! The built in one should be way better as it uses another thread, but somehow isn't.

I just think that as it has been reported several times by myself and others (even before it was released I expressed my concerns) we should have a bit more speed with getting an update that actually works. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that the last build is flawed and as such more energy should be put into an update to fix these issues. This was promised last year(along with DX11 work, so yes things have probably changed again), but now we're here in 2016 nothing seems to be happening. I was half expecting a couple of quick fire fixes this month to get things ironed out. It sounds to me as if we will have to wait at least another few weeks to a month for one at this rate. I certainly do not want to wait for the building constructor to be completed before we get one.

These sort of posts may seem like just complaining, but really all I want is GG to become a better product. If the occlusion is as simple to fix as you suggest well, why are we still waiting for an update after a whole month into the new year?

I can understand that, the point I was trying to make is the underlying system is working. What is really needed now is an update to the UI and LUA to allow users to manipulate the system more easily. This is something that lee would need to comment on in more detail as to his plans for it.



I don't see them as complaining, I see them as users airing legitimate concerns that should be addressed. As long as no one is throwing insults around then it is all a healthy conversation.



Lee has been very busy so far this year, between his time off and the meeting schedule being crazy he has only had a few days actually programming. As Lee is the one working on the next update it won't be released until he has actually had some time to do something. But he is almost done with meetings and the updates will be rolling out again.

cant be bothered with a rant so if you read earlier comments here you saw my views

Unless I am wrong and misinterpreted meaning, Lee had recently said in his postings that the official general line of thought was that they should focus on adding more things to a certain standard of completion so that more users can have at least something of what they want and need more quickly, rather than spend much longer developing fewer individual Features to a higher standard of of finish and capability - as apparently perhaps the majority of users want more features now as a preference.....

Much as it has been to date with Features only partly developed and as far as some would see incomplete as to their needs.

Throw into the mix all the rest of the calls on time and that everyone wants different features as priority and there is a voting list of priorities in essence one cant have it all - all at once and when you get it it may be just enough to say you have it and no more so the next thing can be worked upon and everyone get something of what they want.

Given all that is the case then those that want to hold that up to stop and work on things already existing or Fully complete any one Feature with all manner of things that could be added to create a fully fledged one in each case may be disappointed at that does not seem to be the governing criteria. Obvious bugs or show stoppers I am sure may get attention along the way of course but as a general rule the measure seems to be not to fully complete any feature to a high quality standard, said with no disrespect of course but with reference to the realities as aforementioned.....

Indeed as I have said previously a lot of users seem to be happy with what they have in each Feature case and don't want more but they do want more Features and Quantity over quality is preferred for many, often I guess as they don't want to wait for the Feature they personally want next. That's fair enough I guess as they are customer users and have their say as to what should be done next or now relative to any TGC development plan influence....

Difficult to see how TGC can do much else than to go with that majority unless everyone is prepared to wait even longer than they are now doing....TGC will have a plan but we are unlikely to ever fully know what it is and why - its a business.

It's no secret that I agree with some posts here that any Feature starting from the start of development should be completed before moving on to the next within reason and the restraints of order of developing a game engine. (e.g. you must have some things in place at each stage so you can do the next.) which by now means you may still be working on things like finishing water, AI enemies and terrain and so on - things already existing and way behind even where you are now perhaps though its not been a straight ride and sometimes forwards, sometimes backwards....

I guess one could spend this year improving what already exists alone leave alone anything new and like everyone else I also want more now Kinda no win scenario that.

Whatever its a long process and hopefully we will be able to make some progress soon whatever that term means. I understand the indie game makers pain but not a lot I or anyone but TGC can do to help, sorry.



Seems like Lee has a lot more things to do in February and more cropping up all of the time. I guess that's just the way of it and cant be helped. As said its a business and TGC priorities may differ from users as always. Small team, few resources, much to do, engine to get done, users to keep happy. No easy way I guess.

Stay happy folks.

I find some items on the voting list a bit silly. Such as XP Levels. Im horrible at LUA but have still managed to create an XP leveling system already. Additionally Top down isometric is already possible with the 3rd person controls and moving the camera top-down. It just needs a way to lock the camera which I believe is possible now?

I think Swimming should be on the list (I have suggested in before). Am a bit surprised to see its not on the list. Unless its already being considered?

Also noticed that the player still has hardcoded values we don't have access to in LUA to read from or change. Is things like this falling into the Player control override feature item on the list?

I have added swimming to the list as it has been suggested a number of times and it will be interesting to see how it moves up the list.

Well, after watching some of the twitch streams on youtube, Lee mentions Directx11 quite often... saying something along the lines of February of this year. So maybe they just haven't mentioned it and we'll get a nice surprise

Yes Lee has mentioned it a few times, but after the meeting at the beginning of the year, it was put further down the line after some of the voting features are added.

... which is the proper move. Even a humble dx9-dx11 refactoring (without much use of dx11 Features) will be a Major Task, without much Advantage for the users other than a "built on DX 11" tag, but it would already leave some users behind, who are still running xp, Vista or may not have fully dx11 compatible gfx Cards. To fully exploit dx11 takes "a little more".
Depending on the success of microsoft's questionable practices to push w10 down our throats, it might even be wortwhile for GameGuru to wait and jump onto the dx12 train. Given the current not-so-strongness of Gameguru in many fields, this may be a longterm strategy worth considering. A short term move to dx11 would mean falling behind again in 2-3 years IF (AND ONLY IF) Microsoft should succeed, and a small Company like TGC can't possibly afford another such move in such a short interval.

@DVader : Can you send me a level using stock assets which shows the occlusion bug when set to 100 (i.e. objects disappearing when they should not). From this I can then tweak the internals so it does not happen, and perhaps a add a setup flag so users who like the current config can return to it. I also agree there is just a little niggle about occlusion that I also would like to deal with. I am planning an update in a few weeks and the fix could be part of that if you can get the level to me quickly at lee@thegamecreators.com with a step by step of what I should expect to see and what I actually see from the level. Thanks.

I'll see what I can do. Obviously, my maps normally contain a lot of store content rather than default media. I have a fair bit of TGC DLC and store items, would they be acceptable? It is difficult to show my point with the default items I would imagine.

DLC yes, store stuff not so much as I would have to buy each one before I could help with the test and discovery phase

I was thinking say the TGC city pack which I got off the store, rather than 3rd party assets. I can probably work with just the DLC though.

DLC based levels would help, thanks. I think the store has over 5000 items in there now and I like to keep my dev area relatively clean so I know what stock media to support as we go from update to update

@Lee

I just mailed you an FPM with 2 "stock" items.. Modular Wall and Aztec Building.
Modular wall will disappear (pop), Aztec Building won't. (when walking backwards, looking at the walls)

I attached the same FPM in this post.

Grts
Anubis

A great level showing the issue, thanks!