Product Chat / Indie Contest Results

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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 31st Oct 2015 17:41
Now the results are in...... who did area 52, the Gameguru entry that won the engine category.

http://contest.gamedevfort.com/page/winners
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http://contest.gamedevfort.com/submission/185#.Vd9sJflVhBd
DVader
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Posted: 31st Oct 2015 18:15
Congrats to the winner whoever it may be!


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Slaur3n
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Posted: 31st Oct 2015 19:14
Congratulations
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synchromesh
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 11:40
Yes congratulations to AREA 52 ...
Who says GG cant produce a winning game
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3com
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 19:50 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2015 18:58
Congrats to AREA 52 too.
Yeah, basically other winner games are focused to non shooter style.
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unfamillia
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 20:01
Has anyone played Area 52?

The download is weird to say the least. It's 24mb. It has a GG icon (that looks strange) and it doesn't actually play. It just says's that GameGuru has crashed.

I can't find anything about this game ANYWHERE. I would like to play it, to see why it beat any of the other games that were trying to defend the title of GameGuru.

If anyone has a working link, please feel free to post it.

Cheers

Jay.




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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 20:37
@unfamilia - I downloaded the fpm file (in the dropbox link you can go into files, mapbank etc. I'm not sure if he intended to have all his GameGuru files available for public download, but it's all there). Apart from a few missing entities, I was able to play it, and it appears to be a very slightly modified version of Morning Mountain Stroll by Wizard of ID....
wizard of id
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 20:47
Quote: "@unfamilia - I downloaded the fpm file (in the dropbox link you can go into files, mapbank etc. I'm not sure if he intended to have all his GameGuru files available for public download, but it's all there). Apart from a few missing entities, I was able to play it, and it appears to be a very slightly modified version of Morning Mountain Stroll by Wizard of ID...."


Then the game should have be disqualified .....as you needed to start a fresh
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unfamillia
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 20:49
Something smells fishy to me.




wizard of id
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 20:50 Edited at: 1st Nov 2015 20:52
Some one double check and confirm, please if this is the case I will be most displeased.Went ahead and reported the game in the announcement thread, as the rules clearly stated you may not have started the game before the start date......
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unfamillia
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 20:56
The game doesn't even run. I have downloaded all the files (individually) and tried to play. Giving me a runtime error every time.





Gtox
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 20:59
Here are some comparison screenshots.

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wizard of id
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 21:01
That is my map, through and through.......
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Gtox
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 21:05
Quote: "That is my map, through and through"

Yes - there are some minor changes (the start point is slightly different, and there's more grass), but it's 99.9% your map.
So, I guess congratulations on winning another competition?
unfamillia
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 21:06
Such a painful rip off! He must have thought, that if he changes the terrain colour, he will get away with it!

How do we report these games?





wizard of id
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 21:10 Edited at: 1st Nov 2015 21:11
Kindly report on game dev fort. I am emailing rick, as well as the winner also gets 10 000 store points. Kindly also show the comparison screenshots please, bandwidth issues here. thanks !

http://community.gamedevfort.com/t/igmc-winners-live/1263/17
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unfamillia
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 21:16 Edited at: 1st Nov 2015 21:16
I have made a public comment; not mentioned any names or which game I want to discuss, just that one of the games is fraudulent.

I will show everything to whoever contacts me.

This will be resolved as it doesn't look good for GameGuru or the community.




Johno 15
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 21:26 Edited at: 1st Nov 2015 21:38
That's quite unfair and despicable to say the least. The time and effort that went in to making Morning mountain stroll was huge. it was a great level, very fun to play and really showcased what GG can do. For someone then to come along and take that map change the terrain colour with a few clicks and pass it off as there own is the height of despicable. I have absolutely no respect for whoever did this and I hope they receive whatever sanction is just. The Game Guru community has always been one of the if not the best communities out there on line and this guy has no right to come along and tarnish that reputation and give us all the finger and indeed 2 fingers to Wizard of id.

Anyway rant over. Hope this comes through and the truth is seen

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wizard of id
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 21:43
I have emailed, rick and lee.Definitely not happy chappy, feel violated I spend 2 and half months making that map, and damn proud of it, I still own the copyright on that map even thought TGC has been given permission to include the map in the software, TGC has made it known that any map included in the software needed to be heavily modified or not used at all in your own commercial game, demo or free game.

Unfortunately, unlikely I will not be adding any more maps if given the opportunity, I spend many hours creating maps, especially for the death valley DLC for example, this has definitely made me reconsider my stance on that aspect.

I am honestly gutted beyond words.
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Johno 15
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 21:46
Rightly so Wizard. You've given a lot to the community over the past while and I for one don't blame you for reconsidering. it was a disgusting thing to do and stolen glory is one of my pet hates.
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 22:01 Edited at: 1st Nov 2015 22:05
I didn't want to be negative with this but I have to agree. It looked like a modified Morning mountain Stroll map to me as well. When I played it, I did feel that either it's fishy as said above, or the judges basically pulled the winner out of a hat. Nowhere did I see much care and attention, there's a floating tree right at the start, the uzi soldiers have no textures, not to mention as said, it is obviously Morning Mountain stroll modified a bit. The author couldn't even be bothered to change the lighting to match the skybox! Not a good example of GG's capabilities.

I've played several entries and can say I thought they were all better than this. Most disappointed with the entire contest overall. It looks to me that the entries were not given much testing, certainly not the hour mentioned at the start of the compo. I battled long and hard to avoid any bugs with my entry, having to totally change the original storyline because of the disappearing heads bug (you only saw it in a final version when reloading into a prior level). I put in a reasonable start sequence with a truck driving off after dropping you at the site. I gave it a tad of freedom, although I had to drop that when time became an issue. I even had an end level that was optional and had an entire island which grew around you as you ran around. It was all original and made in the month allotted, so to see this as the winner when it looks so little effort went into it is a bitter pill to swallow.

I for one would like to see the scores for all GG games and see how this game won compared to all the other entries. As said above, I prefer all the entries I played off the compo thread above this to this one. They all put in some time to make an original game for the competition. When I downloaded this I was expecting something really special, I was gob smacked when I played it.

Edit - I downloaded the game by selecting the dropbox link and then clicking on download to my dropbox account. That seemed to download the correct folder with all assets correctly. Don't get them individually.


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unfamillia
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 22:20
WOI, I wouldn't take this as a fault on GameGuru's part (or any of the staff). This to me looks like a gross oversight by the judges and staff over at GameDevFort. They obviously weren't monitoring the entries close enough or have any insight to what the engine offers. Somebody somewhere, didn't do their homework.

Rick and Lee wouldn't ever want anyone else's work to be used in this way and I know in your heart, you know that too. I can understand that you over everyone, will be the most annoyed (avoiding swearing) by this whole situation, but, you anger shouldn't ever hinder what you do with GameGuru, the staff and most importantly, the community. Your work, levels and models is always appreciated by the honest members of the community.

I have also emailed Rick and Lee about it, so, I will update once I hear more. This whole thing will be rectified and justice will be served (sorry for sounding like Judge Dredd)




Slaur3n
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 22:32
Woaw.. Looks like that the judges didnt even try the gameguru entries if you ask me..
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wizard of id
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 22:40
If it's an active user on the forums.....a ban would be in order as well, don't need names, can be dealt with discreetly. Yes swearing aside I have strong words that would have any one turning in the grave :p

Personally, it being the users fault and he is to blame, can't be taken out on staff or users or whoever as it's not their fault, but if history is any thing to go on, my work in FPS classic was pirated at one point as well, simple fact for every honesty guy there is 10 crooks, and that isn't going to change any time soon.So I rather not provide the opportunity at all, plain and simple, not going to change my mind either, I will not ever provide another map period.

I definitely feel TGC needs to protect maps included with the software, as well as prohibit usage of maps, outright.
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DVader
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 22:40
Like I said, out of a hat...

Mailed lee as well about this. It isn't fair to all concerned.


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rolfy
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Posted: 1st Nov 2015 23:58 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2015 00:20
I reckon the judges wouldn't know if a map was original or not, it is unlikely they even used or looked at GG itself or would know. When we entered our maps for TGC competitions we agreed that any media we used that wasn't stock could be freely distributed and the map itself could be used by users freely for their levels so cant complain now about that either. I am also sure that if TGC paid you in any way for your map you probably signed over rights for them to distribute and users could freely use it in their games.
I myself entered that competition and tried to make it as original as possible and struggling with the limitations of the software, they should have let TGC judge the GG engine entries rather than someone who wouldn't have a clue.
All the same I feel I have no rights to complain if someone were to use the map I provided in their levels as I agreed they could when entering the TGC comp or any other media I have been commissioned for. Of course I might feel a little peeved if someone were to win a comp over my own entry by entering a game built around something I myself created and the fact that it should be built only from start of it is against the rules of the competition. This should disqualify the entry but no blame on the judges or TGC.

When I have been commissioned to do any work for TGC I have always thought of how I can benefit the engine and the users rather than just providing TGC with content for their product and usually gone beyond what they asked for, just as you yourself have Wiz so although I agree with your sentiment and understand your ire in this. I wouldn't withhold any further content or maps because of one bad apple. You have provided users with some excellent content and maps and should continue to do so.
Don't let an experience with one bad user sour your relationship with all the good users around here they deserve your skills and appreciate your support.
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 00:17 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2015 00:43
Quote: " we agreed that any media we used that wasn't stock could be freely distributed and the map itself could be used by users freely for their levels "


Yes Rolfy is correct ..That is the case but it was also stipulated if you intend to sell your game they have to be " Heavily " modified as in almost unrecognisable .. so the maps cannot really be protected if TGC allow use of everything supplied to be usable by the user

However...This was a competition where ( As WOI states ) " it had to be a fresh new game and clearly this is not the case ... In fact even if the rights are given to TGC its clear he is using a TGC game demo for a competition that he did not make so either way it needs to be disqualified..

As for the Judging .. Rolfy is correct again really..... The Judges would have no idea .... so in reality they need to be informed and then the situation dealt with ..

I really hope WOI does not decide against making maps for GameGuru because of a user who broke the rules
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 05:04
It would appear that the organizers are taking this seriously. The fraudulent game has been removed from the winners list.

I think name and shame is important in to protect the community and re-instill confidence in those who so freely give. It should be followed up by a ban. If this person ever becomes a real developer just imagine what kind of business and ethical practices will be undertaken. An early wake-up call would probably benefit the transgressor who is probably a young immature person.

@Wizard, sorry you had to go through this. And sorry also to the community which so depends on the goodwill of the few individuals who keep it alive - from free code to free art. Probably not said enough but a wholehearted thank you.

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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 06:01
@rolfy

No I was not paid to include morning mountain stroll in game guru, TGC was given permission to include it in the software, but the copyright still remains mine, this does not apply to content for the game only the map it self, it has been pointed out by nick and as such the game has been DQed, I have no problem with users using the map, but don't pass off some one's work as your own, and at that gain financially from it....

At no point did TGC say I no longer have rights to morning mountain stroll, so the game and map still remains mine in any event...Commissioned stuff is different, in any event, and is not the topic of the debate, my argument is not content, at no point in this thread did I complain about content, I never said I will no longer provide content, I said I will no longer provide Maps commissioned, free or otherwise, spend hours creating and testing these maps.....
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rolfy
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 06:14 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2015 06:26
Ok, message received and understood, I do understand how this affects you and how you feel about releasing any future maps for use in GG..... Just trying to deflect your anger from the community in general, we do really appreciate your work and it would be a pity if you stopped providing for those who have done nothing wrong because of one loser who thinks they can get away with ripping others hard work.
This community is made up of many old classic forum users and new GG users who have the same community spirit and ethos, we always looked out for each other and had each others back, this is apparent even in this case and will continue.

It is just that (I may be wrong) I thought Morning mountain stroll was a competition entry and under those competition rules we gave rights for the map and any included media that wasn't stock to TGC and their users to distribute and use as they wished. Of course that doesn't mean enter other comps blatantly using it But to be honest I don't think that TGC stating it can be used only if heavily modified would mean anything in court unless it is specifically entered into license terms and conditions.......just sayin'
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 06:34
Oh don't worry will always love my community and it's users Just won't be providing maps, content is business as usual Glad the issue has been dealt with, but definitely would like some punishment from TGC as well, so that a clear message is sent as well, strung up and dried so to speak But I don't expect any miraculous actions there. Besides I won that part of the comp, even if indirectly I do feel bad for the runner up, having to win now under these conditions, no one wants to be second best either, not like this either.

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wizard of id
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 06:48
@rolfy I have no idea, were you get the idea, that copyright was given to TGC outright, Law in general require as written and signed document with any thing related to copyright, and unless it is explicitly stated that copyright no longer belongs to you, I am still the copyright owner, even with commissioned work unless explicitly stated I still retain the copyright, and even then under South African law, copyright protects the creator, in the event that creations is used in a negative or otherwise stated way, that affects the creator harmfully.

So while TGC has all the usage rights, I am not aware, that I have at any point I had given away any of my associated copyrights.
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rolfy
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 08:15
It is a complicated argument but you signed a 'Transfer of title' for your commissioned work right? That is just what it states...Transfer of title, any dealings with TGC are dealt with under English law as is stated under any license with them so SA laws no longer apply. As for maps entry into comp was dependent on agreeing to terms and you indicated acceptance of these terms on entering. It is a nitpicking exercise on how you interpret these terms and agreements but I myself acknowledge that 'Transfer of title' means it is theirs not mine so I myself avoid confusion

This is one for a separate thread entirely or even a separate web site where lawyers can thrash it out, I am glad it all got sorted out for the game entry.
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 09:25
I still think something is a little fishy here.

Yes, the game has been disqualified, but, Nick Palmer's (judge and staff of RPG Maker) opinion and the way he talks about the GameGuru entries is a little strange - at best.

He was very nonchalant about who won the best in engine. He has been quoted as saying, "someone had to win", "No more than it bothered me to have to award prizes to games that honestly weren't that great".

I doubt they even played the GameGuru entries. Either that, or they played them for a minimal time and had already made their mind up, prior to the game loading.

I would still like to see who this Ted Cullins is; just to help my curiosity and to prove to myself that it wasn't in fact one of the staff members at RPG Maker, trying to keep the prize fund away from GameGuru. Something just doesn't sit well with this whole thing.




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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 09:33
I've learned something from the contest...
That I've wasted my time.
But now I've 2 little games from that contest, which I can expand.
Maybe with the biiig update they will run better.
And please TGC fix that annoying grass bug, thanks. (Flying grass is not very realistic)
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 09:38 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2015 09:40
I think all he is trying to say is most entries would have been disqualified due to errors on loading, bugs and performance issues which left most engines with some sub standard game entries winning by default. Lets face it anyone expecting a GG game to come even close to the top 10 is deluded, it is that simple. This engine at present is abysmal compared to any other out there no matter how we put it or try to ignore it. It is the reason there are so many negative reviews on Steam and no matter how many say "it will get better" or how many pop along to post a die hard positive review to hide the negative ones this won't change till performance and visuals are improved....just an honest opinion
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 10:01 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2015 10:06
@unfamillia

As I said even before the comp ended, it will be one big farce, and mark my words a RPG maker game will win, and did, they definitely will not be getting support from me again, not based on this fiasco, but based on the way things were run, and general biased design of the comp.

Personally as rolfy said gameguru had no chance of winning this, but would have expected it to possibly do well in other areas of the comp, but it being a predominately 2D fest says as much.The fact they say they had to give a game guru prize, troubles me immensely, as if gameguru games doesn't deserve a prize at all.

What troubles me more is what systems were these games tested on.Gameguru does need a higher spec system, so would be unfair in general to gameguru if the used dated system to test on considering that it was mostly 2D games which doesn't need any higher specs.

Will rather enter a gameguru comp before entering any thing they offer, simply based on evident results of the comp being in fav of their own software, and the comp website not being independent from the main website, forcing users to sign up to vote and redirecting them to their store page instead of entry page.Definitely hope TGC has no intentions of supporting it next year, as there is nothing good that come from it.

Google search on the user of this game brings up nothing. what concerns me is that it is not possible to even download the game, yet it won.....it smells big time.
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rolfy
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 10:27 Edited at: 2nd Nov 2015 10:34
I think it goes without saying that these guys would have great spec comps given the nature of their business.
NASA would have difficulty running GG at a decent fps....I don't really think they lost anything giving a prize for GG as TGC seem to have put out for it.

Having said that I do wonder who this character was, but with all the giveaways and bundled with others engines etc, it will never be known, but don't believe for an instant they gave it to "a member of their own staff" personally. It may be that conspiracy or otherwise the judges themselves prefer that genre over others so in that respect it was a no win situation for first prize overall but there were first prizes for other genres too..

GG is 'the easy game maker' particularly if you are lazy and use someones Else's map for your game...lol.
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 10:56
Either way conspiracy or not, you can't run a comp objectively and in my personal opinion fairly with your own judges and software in the mix, if it was open to your software alone, it is fair game, I mean even one of the judges was the winner of the RPG game last year, which is why I am saying steer clear, as there are questionable actions in play whether or not it is the truth, there is enough questionable doubt that speaks for it self not support them.

But that said, gameguru, needs work and a lot of it, it is clearly evident, as for this fiasco it is clear you will get caught, and a stern warning to others...

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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 11:36
very naughty who ever it is.

agreed they need to release the hounds quicker than later on updates, due to more slating and a bad name, it already does have a bad rep. but i knew this would happen as did others, i knew graphics would be a big factor, and i hold my hand up not to think of frame rates due to a gaming community thinking they have good machines. but in a 2 week span from now they must have a release to start turning this round. not going off on conventions 50 percent of the time. things need to be done now before it is too late. they lost gusto and the fires that lee had have somewhat dwindled. my opinion. but reality is here. they need to pull their finger out. get part 1 out and then think about graphics while the other gets on to mechanics, like a huge swearword list of things to do. which aint getting less but longer!! sort it out tgc
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 16:41
@ unfamillia. You can actually download it. I did, or I wouldn't have said the things I said above about it. Just click the link then ignore all the files on screen, just click download to my drop box in the top corner.

TGC will be discussing this in their Tuesday meeting according to the mail I got back.

My main frustrations with this compo are this. Lack of communication from the contest holders. I have not received one mail off them regarding my entry. I don't know if it placed, was disqualified or anything, other than I was not the winner. Kinda sucks imo. I'm sure other entrants feel the same and would at least like to know if their game got into the running. I can assume that as I had no mail, I didn't get disqualified, but again guesswork, no clear communication, you know what assuming does. Then of course there is this result at the end, a clear copy of an existing map. The whole compo, considering the huge prize funds available, was really not well run, they were even a month late in the results. Where was this big reward ceremony they mentioned? Honestly, everything about it feels wrong to me.


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wizard of id
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Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 17:28
Even if TGC decides to allow it, the user still broke the rules, by using a map already created, the rules stated that you may not have started before the start date, unlikely they will allow it, if they do my affiliation with gameguru stops there and then.
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3com
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Location: Catalonia
Posted: 2nd Nov 2015 19:12
I honestly expected a better organization, a higher level of competition, better control of entries, and optimal knowledge by judges.

That such a high level that I expected, is what prevented me to compete because as Rolfi point above, it is very unlikely that a game made with GG had a chance, at least nowaday.

We all know that sooner or later be resolved, but they are there, and we can not ignore them; we can only "accept them" and wait for better times.

It really is a shame that someone taking advantage of another's work, are many hours and much effort and sacrifice. Sorry WOI.

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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2015 00:29
I wasn't paying attention to that whole competition, but I think that guy is among the lowest lifeforms. Did he not think anyone would notice? Is he not familiar with how quickly information travels on the interwebs? Sorry that happened, WOI.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 3rd Nov 2015 00:45 Edited at: 3rd Nov 2015 00:47
Quote: " it is very unlikely that a game made with GG had a chance, at least nowaday.
"


I think " Steve " was well in for a winning chance ... In fact I'm surprised it didn't .. Front end / Cool Game / narration / story and ending ... It was the whole package ...

https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/212963
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Inertia
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Location: SoCal, USA
Posted: 3rd Nov 2015 01:04
synchromesh wrote: "I think " Steve " was well in for a winning chance ... In fact I'm surprised it didn't .. Front end / Cool Game / narration / story and ending ... It was the whole package ..."


Yes, and I voted for it as it was a perfect example of GG being used to create something other than an FPS (plus all the reasons you noted).

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nuncio
GameGuru TGC Backer
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Location: Schleswig Holstein, Germany
Posted: 3rd Nov 2015 07:22
Quote: "and it appears to be a very slightly modified version of Morning Mountain Stroll by Wizard of ID...."


that's gross. i was angry that i didn't take part in this competetion, now i'm happy i didn't. as far as i can follow here the whole competetion seems to be a bad joke. sorry for WOid to go thru this. please don't let this discourage you!
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unfamillia
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Location: Preston, Lancashire
Posted: 3rd Nov 2015 09:11
Quote: "I think " Steve " was well in for a winning chance ... In fact I'm surprised it didn't .. Front end / Cool Game / narration / story and ending ... It was the whole package ..."


That's very kind of you to say mate.

I could have made Crysis or the next Call of Duty, but, it still wouldn't have stood a chance! I would have needed to make something in RPG Maker in order to actually get noticed in that competition. Safe to say, I shall not be entering it again next year.

WOI said it all along. I doubted him, but, he was right when he said the judges would be biased. Never mind, this is the way of the world!

Cheers

Jay.




Tarkus1971
Audio Media Maker
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Joined: 24th Feb 2015
Location: England, UK
Posted: 3rd Nov 2015 10:30
ripping off someone elses work. not on, really not on, makes all of us who worked damned hard to get an entries in feel like a we have wasted time, not tgcs fault, but game devfort, for not vetting entries. i feel for WOI great work he does. Whoever did area 52 needs banning.
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http://contest.gamedevfort.com/submission/185#.Vd9sJflVhBd
3com
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Location: Catalonia
Posted: 3rd Nov 2015 11:17
Quote: "I think " Steve " was well in for a winning chance ... "


And I completely agree with this, however, as we have seen, this is not enough for the organizers of the competition, and this is unfortunate reason.

3com
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