The A.I its really bad, in this engine, even a game from 1998 is better than this a.i, how in 2015 this is possible????

Hi imothep85

Because GameGuru has only just come out of early access and is now really in Beta ...
There is still a lot of work to do and AI is on the list ...

the scripts are customizable. Open one up and change it to your taste. Or you can write your own AI script. The animation listing are in the fpe file for each character.

Sorry for the double post but could it be that the ai_charge script has the shooting range value?



Line 3 seems logically telling me that if the player is further away than 300, then run towards a location near him.

Shortly after that it refers to plrvisible ==1 then fireweapon. (if g_Entity[e]['plrvisible'] == 1 then....)

Not sure where this function is, possibly globals but maybe thats what needs to change. After some thought it doesnt make any sense to me that the untouchable hardcode is setting this to be unchangeable. I think to change the distance they fire at you can be changed in that plrvisible function if found.

What I dont know is what that math.random does.

I just found ther global plrvisible poiting to a script named plrvis is missing which may mean that its falling back to a defined distance in the engine code.

I think you just have to create a plrvisible script. I hope I am right.

There are some issues with the AI that may actually never get "fixed". Since they are not considered issues and intended to act the way they are. So they will most likely always remain a problem for most of us. This is why we have a great community of scripters to help out with issues like this.

The zombies play nothing like any other game. It makes for horrible game play. The draining health thing... i just can't use that. I much preferred how they functioned in FPSC where they delivered damage based on a more realistic attack and effect. Like every other possible game out there. They are WAY to difficult in the way they deliver damage, especially as a horde. Thankfully someone posted up a script to fix this issue.

I'd suggest looking around for community member assistance. Hopefully more LUA commands get added in so we can free up some of the hardcoded stuff and fix these problems ourselves.

If the AI gets voted in then here's what the plan is



Just a little info for you ..

I wish base AI functionality didnt rely on a community vote. According to a chat from a support dev, 90% of the people who bought the game are content with drag and drop ease and dont care about the ai. that is why i find this sad because for those who really would like to do something more intense seem a bit SOL

Its ironic ....The community vote was voted in by the community so we know exactly what the next steps are and what we can expect. We get to plan our own roadmap . This really is rare for any company to allow the community make all the development decisions and personally I think its great..

It wont be long before the top 10 are implemented and we will have all these main features requested ..
Some requested features may only take the team a day or two to add so its possible we could have more than one off the list each time if we are lucky ..

It sure is nice to look forward to! My main point is that it allows a great deal of diversity in the produced games which will, in turn, speak well for this engine.

The community is actually a split of two different communities. That is why the feedback is always so divided. Unfortunately this is what will drag production along in ways that can be excruciatingly painful for some, as your trying to feed two completely different expectations. I say that from both perspectives.

PS: The original engine's strongest selling point for the other half of the community (the FPSC one) was the move from FPI to LUA. It is legitimately the reason why Game-Guru exists today, if you trace the very first thread years ago of "should we create a new engine and why". Improved AI and better scripting capabilities were what put the engine into motion. We've already made this vote years ago.

Since it's move to Steam, and other than the multi-player mode, there has been little movement forward with actual new features. I have been reading threads like this month after month, I participated in the recent features survey, and yet all that one reads in the weekly news and Lee's blog is about improving the core, changing the core, moving to VS 2015, etc. etc.

There are hundreds of prospective features out there waiting for some attention. We can vote, and write comments, but until the development team get's beyond the core, and begins to release new features (as they did in the Reloaded days), the faith that people have had in this development will continue to decline. I took a break from GG over two months ago, and in a comment by Lee himself, he said that I would be surprised when I returned to find all of the progress. I'm sorry Lee, but I am underwhelmed.

You can survey until the cows come home. Until you deal with the (2) 800 lb gorillas in the room nothing meaningful is going to happen. One, the ability of AI characters to move freely on levels above the terrain, and two, the ability to have a script-able camera so that the camera can be moved and controlled through LUA scripts.

As a programmer I understand the importance of having a solid and efficient core. However, there has got to come a point when you get beyond the core, and start making GG what it is capable of being.

When is that going to happen? Unfortunately, I'm beginning to wonder if it ever will.

The last most requested feature was speed .... Lee is now re writing the engine as requested. once that is done things will move along swiftly

We wanted this since reloaded ....

GoDevils, has it been 2 months already since you took a break from GG? (It has, I checked, I remembered that thread, June 4) Doesn't seem that long, in fact, earlier today I was thinking about how long this summer is dragging on here, still 110+ out there, and about 7 weeks to go! We're only halfway there, LOL. In all fairness to Lee, he did give you 6 months (!):



So I guess you came back too early! LOL, anyway, good to see you back, at least for the moment! I've said all along I don't expect anything that'll knock my socks off 'til at least 5 years from it's inception as Reloaded. It will come. Lee will build it. It will come. Keep the faith!

@GoDevils I very much feel the same way about this product. I maintained months ago that the core code of this product was not up to the task of delivering what GameGuru pertains to do. The fact that the core code base is now being rewritten strengthens my belief that this product was released far too early.

Performance shouldn't have had to be a "feature" that users have to request, it should have been there from the start!

Hi Jerry, Yea it's the dog days of summer... waiting for Sun Devil football (32 days)

I forgot about the six months Lee mentioned. I'm not really back, but I've been looking in every now and then.

All I'm saying is that they need to get back to releasing features again.

@ Polaraul.. I agree Bro.

Unfortunately it's a common misconception that the product was released too early.People fail to realize and actually understand what happened behind the screens and why certain development decisions were made that seem utterly, "what were they thinking"

But the main problem was DBO. Early on it was decided to use it as it had all the nice plugins and all the features needed to get the engine going, the plus side was that TGC owns all those plugins, which means TGC can use it any way they want, as well as make their price on selling the product, which is why gameguru is as cheap as it is.

However as a downside performance of DBO left much to desire and the aging DBO, was barely able to keep up with the demanding world of today.Even before the steam release vast amounts of code was already converted to C++, the grass system was among the first to be converted to C++.

However you may assume that it was a mistake to use DBO in the first place.Nope, not really, TGC decided on getting a useable version out the door to supplement the funding of the product. TGC is not a charity after all and the lights must stay on, you really don't want to dip into your savings account.

As a result the planned development cycle, has an early version, that is useable (albeit sluggish performance but it's not entirely gameguru's fault ).As a result TGC can spend 3 months rewriting the core without affecting revenue of the product.Considering this is a brand new product, and early on in development, there is a fine line to walk , between success and total ruin, TGC is a business as much as any other, their choices is purely developmental, and business centered and a balancing act between keeping the business going and keeping users happy.

Consider the costs during a development phase were there is little or no income, how small the company is, do you think TGC can afford to spend 4 or 6 years with little or no income.By the time it releases the first version of the product it would have been outdated, and might not be what users were expecting. Consider it is not a game that needs to be perfect and polished and mostly bug free on release, it's a software program that needs to evolve......

@wizard of id

Hi Wizard.



Many people who purchase this product now do so via Steam. These users have no history with TGC and no inclination to give TGC an easy ride. They have paid for a product that is not advertised as Early Access or a Beta release. I believe that judging by the amount of negative reviews both on Steam and YouTube, the first thing that strike these users is the poor performance of the product.



TGC have more than one product for their revenue streams. GameGuru was also partly funded by Kickstarter, Pledges and Early Access.

People dont generally care about the wallet size of the creators of the product they just bought. They buy it believing it works.
Videos are produced showing the product in working form, which give the impression its cool and you can surely make a game with it thats yours.
People are always going to complain because we all have different needs.

For many, gameguru is the perfect tool for many to feel like a game developer and its perfect because if they can accept the bad things about it, they are fine. They actually dont need code. But this makes the title suffer incredibly so it can't even be taken seriously. the only thing you can really do is make a multiplayer mmap but those who want to play with you have to own gameguru which kills it again for you.

For those few who are actually serious about making a GOOD game on this engine and come in with a team of programmers, modelers and level designers like they do for Source, Unity, UDK and Cry.......they, imo, are in for a big surprise. There are too many limitations that make absolutely no sense whatsoever to limit. This list, coming from a long term Source SDK developer, is huge in fact.

I remain curious how long these updates are going to take. I'm not one to give up easily.

The Kickstarter for Reloaded / GameGuru was not successful .... no funds came from that at all I'm afraid .... They had to start from scratch with Bronze, silver and Gold community support .

Hi synchromesh.

I was under the impression the Kickstarter campaign did produce results.



https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tgc/fps-creator-reloaded/posts/360146

Kickstarter failed remember Private backer

http://www.thegamecreators.com/gameguru_credits.php
We are looking here at possibly 300K in total for pledges, that still excludes the discount of 30% offered during the pledge phase, as well as bronze users upgrading to gold of silver as some names appear double.

It's very likely TGC needed to compensate the private backer.TGC needed to pay staff during the development phase, pay their freelance artists, pay server and hosting fees, advertising fees if any, pay tax, day to day operations, ect.

Secondly TGC only used gameguru funds for gameguru related stuff, AGK backers voiced the concerns about funding the kickstarter project, that it's funding would be used on gameguru, TGC officially stated that AGK development funds stay AGK development funds.So no TGC isn't using other projects funds to fund gameguru directly. It wouldn't be fair to those projects and vise verse to gameguru.

All things considered TGC doesn't have piles and piles of cash lying around as you might expect.The only logical way to have gone about the project is with an early project release.

You also have to consider that on steam, there is always specials running and that steam takes a 30% cut and TGC needs to pay Tax, plus transfer fees and what not.Besides financials of TGC is there business and none of ours any ways.I am merely pointing out costs involved in this project is prohibitively expensive, and they have more costs and expenditures you and I may not even be ware of.Definitely take into consideration, development costs is still high even for a small company.


Negative reviews is more to do with people being impatient, even having been told that the product is still beta, in actual fact the product is still in beta, even thought it is out of early access, I think some people made the assumption that the product is out of beta when it came out of early access.

While it's true that some games or software that comes out of early access is the final version.I found a LOT of games and software out of early access still get tremendous amounts of updates even after having exited early access.

A game development tool in my library for example updated to version 3 recently, and one of my games moved over to unity 5 recently, a few others have been updated with additional maps and/or content. Definitely don't get why people assume early access = beta.

I generally don't pay attention to reviews as it is often not an accurate representation of what the project is like, and while there are plenty of video's and screenshots available, users still manage to buy the software and complain about it. TGC in no way buttered or tweaked their video's screenshots to "con" people they gave and accurate and fair representation of their project.so no excuses there.90% of the negative reviews are about what the software lacks or the impatience of waiting for features to be implemented, or performance related, very few of them are constructive, and generally just uneducated biased remarks, because they can comments. In general you take steam reviews with a pinch of salt.If majority of the reviews were of notable constructive level, I would have said fair game, but they aren't and really is a mix bag, and in my own opinion not worth the paper they are written on.

Although I am standing up for the defense of a project I use daily and respect TGC, I am eager to see new things in gameguru as much as the next person, I keep the impatience and lack of quick progress to my self, as it's not some thing directly in my control and was well aware of it being a coupkle of months or a year or 2 before some thing awesome, could be created with gameguru.

I might add awhile, average joe might not care of how they go about the developments and it's costs, and the speed of the projects, it is some times worth the effort to have a closer and clear headed look what goes on, to get a product like this from point A and point B, you notice plenty of bumps, bruises, pitfalls and what not that the developer needed to overcome to get to this point.

That alone in my books gives me a better appreciation of the work that has gone into this project, the little annoyances, and issues found is minor to what is expected in the long run.


The steam discussion board is also active with users waiting to do this or know how to do that. Most complaints has been about performance and as such is getting the attention it needs.

Hi Wizard of Id




I have to ask as I see this mentioned a lot, but could you please link to the Steam product page that implicitly states the product is still Beta (and not assumed). I have looked a few times in the past but could never find this. Many thanks in advance

Lee has mentioned the software is in perpetual beta more times I care to mention in 246 odd blog post on the old forum, as well on steam news and gameguru blogs.

Would it make a difference if it does say beta or not ?

From the store page.Now if you still on a fault finding mission as to what beta is and how loose the term is used nowdays, have a look at google news and gmail at how long that was in beta phase, even thought it was 100% functional in many instances.Alpha refers to exploratory features not locked down yet nor under development and unstable, where as beta refers to features locked down under development with possibility of bugs.

TGC has added a "Roadmap" of updates and new features.Now if that isn't a clear cut "this is in no way the final version " example of what a beta is then cut me a blow hole and call me a dolphin.....Does it need to say beta, to state the obviousness of not the "final" version ?



Having said that, the product it self is in beta, while the actual releases and updates are "RC" as they have already been alpha/beta/gamma tested, rightly so TGC can omit beta from their description as you aren't actually receiving an actual beta, but a final of that particular version, and each version following that.But the product it self is in "perpetual Beta"

I was under the impression Game Guru was in early state of beta. When I purchased it, I remember reading a post saying that it had just come out of early access state and that was probably a little over a month ago. I think there is a lot that still needs attention but it's certainly improved quite a bit. I would like a few basic things addressed before VR or even a better particle system though. After the engine improvements, I really hope to see a load/save system, a way to change icons/menus/loading-titlescreens internally for standalone builds and finally being able to share multiplayer with non Game Guru owners.

The fact that GG was launched at an early stage of development, is not bad for me, on the contrary, it allows me to participate in its development.

When buying GG I never thought if I was alpha, beta or omega, I just thought it was something that would allow me to learn about the development and design of 3D games, which was totally new to me.
Neither buy with the intention of becoming a super GameMaker in a few days, or create a AAAAAA game, with AAAAA models, and nothing else, perhaps because does not create me high expectations is what I'm willing to wait, and while both learn new things and have fun in the process.

And yes, sometimes I also noticed the lack of features that would allow me to finish or do many things.

This is only my humble opinion, and nothing else.

3com

@ Wizard of Id



This list is very nice but is missing two key elements..

1) Until GG allows AI characters (other than the player) to work (using AI commands) on game levels other than the basic terrain, GG is destined to remain a limited terrain based game system. This means that all of the models with surfaces above the terrain (interiors, external platforms, stairs, ladders etc. etc.) are all but useless . Why should I spend my time as a modeler building these types of platforms, when there remains the question as to when and "if" this limitation will ever be resolved. One would think that after 2 years of development, this issue should already have been addressed.

2) Without independent script-able control of the (a) "Camera", the ability to extend a game into a complete 3D environment (including VR) is extremely limited. Further, such camera control is critical for in-game capture of video for use in cut-scenes as well as activities such as driving a car, or flying a plane, etc. The camera should be like any other object, with the ability to move, fly, roll, and yaw through script-able commands.

I feel that these two elements are a critical foundation to forming the basis upon which the above noted features will operate. We've been hearing about the core this, and the core that, for the past 5 months. It's time to get the core finished and begin to move forward with the "FEATURES" we've been talking about for a long time!

That pretty much sums up how I've felt about it since I signed on. No hurries for me, I'm just along for the ride.

Once this update is done ( which is the big one really ) then things really get interesting

Looking forward to the update. I've reached the engine's limit with script capacity in most recent level - it's not massive in terms of entities, but many complex scripts in place, but now any additional scripts placed in the level don't follow the rules (ShowImage for example stops working as you'd expect).

So I'm hoping the performance update helps and it's not a memory issue I'm hitting (I'm also getting screen tearing issues). So think performance changes are still key to underpin all that follows .

Cheers.