Im not going rants and raves here i have done that on other posts.
i know there are people like me who are not to happy with gameguru
having to use steam. how do to get the program when you never use steam.
The product which was paid for was not delivered in a fully working state
and what we have now a is completely different i know that there won`t be a refund.
But i think the game creators should set up automatic store accounts for all pledgers so
that they can sell there unwanted unused steam keys.

I was actually one of the first people who DID NOT want to be steam reliant and made a thread on it way back .
But i will be the first to admit just how wrong i was ... Since the release on steam GameGuru has jumped leaps and bounds and the support from TGC has been second to none for its customers. I myself own other early access products that get minor updates and hardly a Dev in sight..



Users pledged on a product to support its development and Game Guru is still in development so right now its not a finished product in a fully working state and Hopefully will always continue to be updated with great new features .. I see a lot of threads wanting more features and things improved which is good because it means users want more and with over 5000 users to be honest i think GameGuru is doing very well with very little complaint.



You can sell or trade your unwanted keys via steam ..... How much do you want for them i may be interested in a purchase and give them away on GameGuru files as a promotion for TGC ?

Unfortunately I disagree. It make complete sense to have moved over to steam, steam is the digital platform to be on now days. Steam has 125 million active users. I can tell you know without knowing actual figures, gameguru has exceeded or will exceed both X10 and classic sales before year end.

Steam allows for content, DLC's and updates, to be seamlessly be deployed, without hassle. Currently sitting at second spot in top sales. Steam was the right move.However there is also obligations to meet, for example the anonymous person who funded the project.General feedback is positive, which is great.

As for the reloaded backers, they in no way got the short end of the stick, perhaps the gold members got left out cold, as they were promised the rights to sell any games as were silver and bronze didn't.Now any one can sell games made now.The real problem was, to have 3 different version even 2 different versions on steam, would have ended up with hesitation to buy the product in the first place, if there were restrictions in place, for example.

It was done to simplify every thing, there however seems to be some issues with regards to DLC's that people feel they shouldn't have to pay for them, however these are only content, and will not affect features and updates to the product in any way.Either way, should they released this in the store, the same people would have complained just as much, ignoring the fact that most engines have a store that sell their own content or 3rd party content for their engine, so it's not any thing new or unique to GG.

The major problem seems to be, without the construction kit in place, users are forced to make use of either free content or paid content to create their games.However that said the default content that comes with GG exceeds what most engines provide any ways, but as only due to the lack of the construction kit and primitive creation, there is more than enough content available to create a fresh game every time.


That said, what the users want and what will be important for future viability of TGC may not be the same path, some compromises needed to be made in order to secure both the viability of TGC and GG. I don't feel in any way neglected or done in, as the product evolved into what is the best game creator TGC has managed to put together thus far, speaks volumes of how serious TGC is on getting the product viable and able to actively compete in the market.I also think people needed to be reminded, although TGC had made some promises, they went ahead, and improved on those promises and in some cases exceeded.TGC was under no obligation to provide it's pledgers with extra steam keys to do with as they please, or additional content and DLC's which I should have to remind you they needed to pay for.

They also didn't have to run regular competitions and reward customer loyalty by giving back to the community.Perhaps they could have engaged the community better to explain what they had in mind, which could have resulted in more informed choices about pledge levels ect, but in the end they made a tough call, and in my opinion the right one to evolve with digital developments. There is always going to be users who feel that the change isn't good, but I am asking nicely to look at the bigger picture that benefits all.

I can really just shrug, and say "oh well" I am a loyal supporter of TGC so lets see how this progresses and provide as much feedback as possible for the benefit of all so that I and every one else gets the best experience out of it.

i myself use steam i have a lot of programs and games on there , What i am stating in a round about way is Reloaded Pledgers should have
been given a choice as it was never stated to go to steam. they should have been offered a refund or an exchange.

@ wizard of id

So your saying that for the pledgers that don`t want to install steam or use it . Its there tuff luck they have to live with it.


@ synchromesh
Well i don`t know how much or just give them to a school but seeing as they are unused i would expect most would go for the price on steam
How are they going to sell or trade the keys on steam if the don`t have an account.

@blackbear

Would steam hamper you in any way ? Considering steam if fully updated, can work both indefinitely offline and online.Benefits far out weight the negatives, it's unfortunate you feel that way, more and more PC games being released are being released digitally only via steam, in some instances physical copies is available to avoid lengthy downloads. But ultimately you still need steam, or origin, or any of the digital platforms available to play the game.

So it makes total sense to move over to a digital platform, where a large majority of potential user base is camped out.TGC made it's user base aware, long before GG name change happened that it will be released.

The other less spoken reason is piracy, even during the beta phase there were users that were sharing the beta's with the release on steam and much more rapid deployment of updates and steam DRM, any pirated copy would be outdated very quickly, as well as these copies missing out on MP functionality and steam based features.

I am happy with the steam move, also considering I have a bucket load of content for GG, either via the store or content TGC owns I feel the content is being better protected as well.I really see no negative aspect of the move. Considering the offline functionality of steam it wouldn't in any way hamper it's users.

if it speeds up the development and we are not bound to steam and we are not reliant to run made games on steam i am happy bunny, p.s. i was a gold pledger but times change we knew our risks, hey they could of taken our cash and not done anything, as it happens they have outdone themselves, they changed the entire engine, massive levels remember fpsc and x10, it would freak in the tiny outdoor area it was sluggish and not very good. we were getting a super upgrade, and then he decided to totally rewrite it. there are still plenty of optimising and techniques yet to do. i was one of the first to throw my money down, i even threw out there the thought of the pledge system. i wanted fantasy as the main aim but they said it would be modern warfare, so i am happy with that as i have heaps of my own things to add.

in the end, it has almost hit its original target. minus a few features. remember we never had animated grasses, sculpting terrain, large areas, my main one, i want to build a world, we never had multi player or third person. although water and weather and particles are yet to be properly done, i presume they are attempting to smooth out the engine. anyway seeing where we were to where we are. it is huge differences.

so even though i spent a small ransom to many i feel i am getting what i asked for, minus a few niggles and things but it is still a kid not yet a teenager, it has just got a bike for its xmas present, plus we got 4 dlcs loads of free content and some very nice scripters and guys who roll the project along. all will come good, steam or not.

@ wizard of id
did you read my post where i state i myself use steam
sorry i see where your coming from mistype on my first post have to edit that.

@ science boy
You are bound to steam unless you have a way to download and update it without using steam.

According to this you haven't set up your steam community profile.

yes i know this unless you get in touch with tgc and i am sure they will download to your account if you ask them. but the contents you make and games you make are none steam connected unless multi player online then you have to use steam. otherwise i believe you can be free of steams large grasping hand of doom. so only 2 things you have to be with them and that is for downloads and multi player besides that you do not need it.

@ wizard of id
Do i need to set up steam community profile ?? i don`t bother never done with any other software on there.
my Tgc and steam account are linked

Was a curious observation Generally people set up their steam profile, for friends and stuff to view, it's interesting to see as well what type of games they like and their general tastes and generally allows you to level up in steam, for additional friends slots and customizing your profile and such.

So don't take it the wrong way I am not giving you grief (okay not much grief ) really curious as to whether steam is really the worse thing out there ?

As a gold pledger, my biggest issue is that it will be years before this engine is capable of producing a game that I could market and sell. Each new scope change that moves the product further away from its initial goal, will only add to this length of time. As an example, third person. This has now been added to the engine, but from what I have seen of this so far, it should have been held back and further polished. There are so many core features that still need to be done - AA, FBX support, terrain import.

I guess, with the release on Steam and the change of direction for this product, I can now only see this engine as the spiritual successor to "The 3D Gamemaker". I believe that this is the direction that TGC want, as I am thinking, combined with DLC and Store Sales, this is probably a very profitable route. Perhaps it is only a matter of time before GG goes free as well.

wizard of id
i don`t take what your saying as wrong. i generally don`t bother with profiles
as someone reads what you like and then bombards you with there crap of which you
had no intention of getting in the first place.

LOL, they changed direction (as far as the whole Steam thing goes) circa December 2013, two months after the first beta was released. Personally, I think that if one doesn't agree with that direction, if it were intended to have any effect, it would have best been done then. I have yet to read a reasonable argument against the Steam decision (I don't like Steam is not a valid argument). At this point, though, it doesn't matter, does it? What other things do you dwell upon? Other than that, really, (besides the hard copy and name in the credits) how has the direction changed? I didn't copy the original pledge page, but there is an archive of monthly TGC newsletters that list their goals, and as far as I can tell, they haven't moved at all from those goals.



LOL. Why did you buy it then? It was never, anywhere, sold as a complete, finished product. A fool and his money...

@ Jerry Tremble





Maybe you should learn to to read before opening your mouth i was a backer back in 2013 when i paid for it before
they started on it Thats what the Word backer means to back something and thats what i did in all good faith.



Oh what about the bit where it said Gold pledgers had the right to sell
i don`t remember seeing anything about when it is released anybody will be able to sell

As explained things were streamlined , to make things easier, unfortunately there were a lot of behind discussions other users are not aware off, the TGC "focus group" voiced the opinion elitism wasn't going to go down well with other users and steam users.

What it comes down to now mate, if you don't like the product, and don't like the steam idea, is to not use the product then, or perhaps email support to get closure as to why certain things were done in that way or this way.But that said TGC will always mention, that it thanks you for your support, without you and the many backers this product would not have gotten this far.They would likely also mention it's hard to please every one, and will try their best to accommodate if and when they can, but ultimately they can't please every one, it's just the way the universe works and it's not a unique issue to GG.

blackbear, it's unfortunate you feel this way I hope in future, that you will see that the move and changes made were for the benefit of all, even if it doesn't look to be like that now.Send them an email, support isn't even remotely above approach, it may take time, but they will def get back to you in due course, they value their user base, and always willing to answer reasonable questions and requests.

@ Jerry Tremble

As a pledger, here are some of the things I thought GG would have by now. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tgc/fps-creator-reloaded In particular this. "The game engine will enable the anti-aliasing modes by default for improved rendering quality, removing the jagged edges along the edge of polygons which are most pronounced on lower resolution displays."

anti-aliasing need horse power, GG will have multi core support in due course, in order to have more visual fidelity among other things multi core needs to be added, you can't do that without the core of the engine being in place.If TGC would to work on multi core support, it would take at least a min 2 months.

So it's better to get the most features and core done before tackling that, right now you can force you grahpics driver to use AA even without native support.

Hi Wizard of ID. My concern is that features like AA and multi core support, are core for a FPS engine and should be in place before all the other features being added. In particular, and where AA is concerned, should not the performance of the core game engine be such ( at this stage of development ) it is optimised enough to support AA before all other features are added. Even with the in game visual improvements GG already has, there is a steep decline in FPS when everything is ramped up.

I have yet to see an engine developed with flashy graphics and multi core support right off the bat without doing the core engine first.It may seem logic to do it that way, but from a programmers perspective there will be a massive disagreement with you on that.

I am a developer, and from my experience, performance is everything. I guess what I am saying, is that for a product that is aimed at the FPS genre, "flashy graphics" are core. Surely part of that core is the ability of the engine to render quality visuals whilst maintaining acceptable performance across machine specs. What is the point of adding more and more features to the design spec if the core performance of the engine can't deliver the visual performance? Why did this engine never have the touted AA from the start?

I guess people's expectations will vary on this. With the release on Steam, many users will fall into the hobbyist camp and only ever use GG to dabble around in game development. For them, the current state of the engine will not matter too much, and if they decide they wish to develop their art further, they will probably migrate to other engines. I also think that original pledgers were hoping that FPSCR would give them the tools to release commercial games, and in my opinion, that will be a long time coming for a product that will be in perpetual beta.

@Polaraul, really going to have this discussion every day on this. Getting very old and non productive.

Hi Myke.

I am replying with my thoughts to questions levelled at me by the Wizard of ID, I see no issue with that, unless of course (here on a forum) I am not permitted to do that. As an original pledger, why do you think my comments are non productive? I am just curious. I have kept to the topic of the thread I think and within the Product Chat category

Nothing but no AA, ever, and what they should have completed first. and what was promised that has not arrived.

They are adding stuff faster now then ever before, based on user requests, Post processing is not that high on the request list.
Getting more performance and adding these features for more types of game play are.

Plans are in motion to have all of this stuff going, but a small development team means it will take more time.
31 updates in 3 month and Multi player started and 3rd person view started, Character creator delivered, free flight mode editing and being able to place objects in test games. I think they are doing very well for the small team they are.

These were all promised also and are in place to be further improved on.

Maybe some props to them once in a while, for what they have achieved.

@Polaraul, thanks for that link!

@blackbear





I read that you were a backer. I was too. On the kickstarter as well. In fact, most of the people around here were. Personally, I don't care if somebody paying less now can sell their games. I just won't buy them! Once, no, at least 20 times, I've bought a shiny new computer, only to turn around two months later and find it at half price and with better features. Like I said, a fool and his money...

When I pledged, I was contributing to get the project going. The beast needs money. Without it, it wouldn't even be this far along. I don't know of anyone around here that is content with it's current state. We wish it were complete with all the features as stated in their list of objectives. However, it is still unfinished. Plain and simple. Like Polaraul said, for better or for worse, this thing will probably be in a perpetual beta state! Somewhere around the beginning, I was guessing five years before something mind-blowing emerges. I'm still betting on that time frame.


These kinds of threads seem to pop up about every week or two, and like Myke said, they're non productive. And old.

I was Gold pledger, but I have no intension to stop with GG, as I know from earlier developed game creation software it cost a lot of time to create a stable piece of software. In the 90's I bought Game Creation Software from Pie in the Sky Software, after a few years they left us with a piece of buggy software , no more updates it was just finished .What we got from TGC as modelpacks , DLC's etc. it is worth what we payed as gold pledger.

Well said and that is why I will lock yet another. Next person that opens one of these threads that is essentially an excuse to moan without any attempt to add anything constructive will find themselves on post moderation.

The team are working extremely hard to add features and these threads are not helpful to anyone.