Will we ever have TRUE open world? or just the same set restrictions, Using multi-level to increase borders was one of my idea's but after reading, that it is only going to be used to put one level and switch another level, I doubt there will be any work on bringing over stats, script values, or anything from the previous level, sorry If I seem harsh, It is just how I talk, I try to be open about stuff.

We need the ability of TRUE open world, not using a system that has been used since the late 90's, games like GTA3 had a system like how the Multi-Level system is explained, In GTA 3 if you cross the bridge another map/level loads takes a long time, and after that time you are on the other side of the bridge, (WHILE I have no problem with it, as all stats etc add over from the previous level) Again sorry if I seem aggressive, just would like to see other area's of the engine worked on, I personally think there are way more important things to work on, for instance there is no reason Lightmapping should of been worked on so early, there will be a huge amount of changes that would happen to the engine, that can conflict with the LM, and cause more problems in the future. Also I read something about a steam release coming soon.. No offense but I hope that was a new years joke, the engine is NO were near ready for at least another year. there will be nothing bad bad reviews, the only good reviews coming from us forum people. Someone who see's this for the first time will use it for 3 hours and then lose interest. again No offense I am speaking the truth, I let 3 people try out reloaded on my computer (1 with a dev background) and they asked if I was joking. I told them it was a first person shooter creator engine, in beta. I understand people want to make money, but there is no money to be made this early. it will only prevent future users from buying the product on steam, if they see a lot of negative reviews. With all my experience watching products on steam, and using the green light feature a lot of times I know how this can go. I hate to say this, as I love reloaded so much, and will continue to watch its development, I only say this stuff to better reloaded. If reloaded is put on steam in this state, it will ruin reloaded, sure they may get a small amount of cash, but if it really work the negative feedback? Wait a few months. Fix AI, this is not a working FPS Engine without working AI, I personally think there scripting should be completely redone, after that add in slots of future plugins for them. This is my semi-monthly review on reloaded.

I will add in anything else I need by editing this. But right now this is how I feel about reloaded.

NOTE: My Steam comment I would like to disregard, as I seen that Lee was misinterpreted when he said 2 month's until release. But I would still like to note, that the Steam community is an unforgiving yet amazingly honest community. Be warned.

FPSCR is what it is, a FPS Engine with possibility to do other FPS Style Gameplays.
Who knows we might even get a coop multiplayer, later down the road but Reloaded will never be a OpenWorld Engine.
At least i cant see a way and to be honest neither a reason for Reloaded to be a OpenWorld Game Maker.

Regarding Steam, sooner or later TGC has to go this way and by the looks of it,
there is not much missing to complete a usable Beta Version for Steam.

-Construction Kit
-Particles
-Fullscreenshader effects
-Gui Editor
and we would be verry well on the way to get actual playable and sellable games.
And yes the last 2 i made up, i hope TGC adds new shaders and a gui system with the Steam Beta.

I agree but open world should be a option. There needs to be unlimited terrain as in unity . There is as much terrain as the user wants thats what needs to be in the engine.

Personally I think this latest release is great indicator of things to come. The main engine is coming along nicely. The baking was added because real time is not an option for those with lower spec machines and as they have been trying to get lower specs running better , this is the best option available. I also think the main engine is near completion, and one of the reasons why it took so long to release the last update was because it was being completely overhauled. i think baking is a great addition, despite the bugs at present. Once it is 100% it will be a great feature.

Now, onto Open World. Yes, there is no saving of any stats between levels as such, at least built in. Lee has mentioned in a blog he intends to add some of that sort of thing into it, but it is a lot bigger job than you may imagine, and as there is still more to add as the engine progresses, probably a good idea to leave it for now. You could of course code this manually. I can't see any reason why you can't save stats from one level to another, especially if they are your stats, from your scripts. In fact, you can't really expect Reloaded to do a lot of this for you automatically. If you have custom scripts you will need to handle that yourself. The only things Reloaded will carry over are the basics.

As for releasing on Steam, well I agree and disagree. At the moment, no it would not be a good idea. In 2 months it may be a different story, it may not, TGC will have to judge that when the time comes. However, it is not anything like as bad as you portray here, and of course TGC need to have a plan in place and deadlines to try to meet, otherwise it could take till next year People, even Steam users, do accept that if a product is released as a beta or alpha that there will be bugs. Prison Architect has many bugs still and has been on Steam for some considerable time. It also does very well for itself and has a big fan base. So well in fact, when it is finished I can't really see it selling that many. I am not keen on this new trend myself, funding your game as it goes seems highly odd to me. Still, TGC would be silly not to take advantage of the current trends with a product like Reloaded. It is far more suited to the system than a game is, being a tool rather than a game you will eventually tire of.

Lastly, did you not mention in another post you had a game in Reloaded you were applying to get Green Lighted? If so, considering you feel the engine is not ready for sale, it is a bit much releasing a game made in said engine. I wouldn't dream of starting a game for actual release yet in Reloaded, because it is not quite ready. All sorts of things can change down the line to break your game. You really need to wait until Reloaded has a stable version that has the features you need to complete your idea. Then, you don't have to worry about a new version breaking it, as you do not need to upgrade it for your game anyway.

Just my thoughts. I haven't seen your game, so can't comment on how good it is. I know however that for ideas I have, Reloaded has not got the commands to cope with it. So I wait, and experiment with it to get myself ready for when the commands are in place.

I think 1.9 is a great release. I was hoping for more new lua commands, but for now we will have to wait a bit longer. I think TGC will be busy fixing as many bugs as possible before the Steam Launch, rather than adding a lot more features in. I think a few vital Lua commands could be added though

@Dvader some great points here, as well as some good stuff to counter some of the negative things I said, made me think a lot, and you are right, I just don't want reloaded to have the chance to fail, as it is a amazing engine, and the game we are working

I'm now experimenting with my gtttr level.
I think so, because I read a comment on another post related to this problem and its solution, in other stock buildings .
It may be that you need to add some command, at fpe file.

I even got soldiers not to shoot the player, after being spawned. (ignore yet if it's my fault, or Reloaded bug).

Put deathline intellectual work perhaps necessary, but not recommended, IHMO.

Anyway I will continue betting on Reloaded.

3com

Just an FYI:



In the release thread, the subject was brought up about carrying stats over between levels and I asked if it were currently possible to carry them over with scripts, and Lee responded:

@Jerry : "Can these be scripted and carried across levels/maps at this time with global variables?" What a GOOD idea! I will add to the list for the release.

So, yes, it seems likely we will have that

@Jerry Tremble If we can just get a live folder, that somehow saves when the level closes, and then gets loaded when the new level starts. if someone could pass this along would be a great idea. that way if it a folder we can add our own custom stuff.

Add forcesimpleobstacle = 3 to the FPE.

SC

must be a little more to it, it seems, as I have added this to all my entity's and they still can shoot me thru walls, Is there a thickness requirement of the wall or object?

Not sure it's that simple. All the info carried across levels will be data based and so would be handled via default and custom arrays and or variables. It's not hard as such, just more laborious and it is better to do it when the final array structures are finalised. That way you don't duplicate work as you would inevitably have to update the code for any and all changes in structure.

Hopefully when it hits Steam, it will do so well, TGC can afford a cloning machine , or at least another hand or two on deck We can see from having 2 extra people onboard things have progressed a lot faster, apart from the last update of course ;p . Much of the extra work so far has not been seen though, so progress does seem to have slowed again to us awaiting the multiplayer, conkit and character editor features.

Not sure how they are storing variables currently, but in order to bring over all data from one level, it has to be saved either in text files, .ini files or in a database. Store the data in the database/file at win zone and then read that file/database at the start of the next level.

However, in order to do this, we need access to how data is written, what data is written and to what file. For example, we do not need to carry over object placement since each level will be different nor do we need to worry about bad guy locations and anything else specific to the previous level. However, we do need health, inventory and anything else the player carries along with him/her from level to level.

As far as open world - you have to load stuff at some point and the only real way to make it semi-seamless is to use disk streaming and quadrants to load things in the background - as you play, the next 'quadrant' loads in the background depending on where the main character is located - the nearest quadrant starts loading in. If not using disk streaming, then everything is loading into memory and if so, it is necessary to take some time to load all the objects, graphics, etc which will cause a noticeable pause. You could play a cut scene or video during this load time to keep the user busy and not noticing the pause while loading. Games used cut scenes or static screens to read with VO to make this go by with less notice.

Lastly, you could write your own inventory system in LUA from scratch and load and save to files/dastabase and not worry about what TheGameCreators are doing. It's harder and more time consuming, but in the end it will be more powerful and rewarding.

My two cents for what it's worth.

Mike

I disagree here, what if the level being changed to is a indoor 1 from outdoors but exiting is to the previous map again for like fallout 3 or skyrim ect buildings towns and caves entered from and exited to the same area. so in some cases these details will be needed, quite possibly a lot depending on the game ect.

It is assumed that the indoor level is not another level at all, but, a part of the level itself (true indoor/outdoor levels). But, yes, if you want to travel back and forth between levels then you do need to account for dead enemies, object placement, etc. All of that would be included in the file/database, but that would also require MUCH longer load times.



Mike

I don't think reloaded will ever have the power to hold all that action on 1 map tbh m8, I hope it can 1 day but I have my doubts
I would rather have it so I could use 1 map for several indoor ares not linked to gether, ie several different buildings from various parts of an outdoor map, and use a couple of these for the whole outdoor map overall. means having the start markers know when and where to place the player each time might be complex coding required I don't really know. but that's my hope,
I did request of lee a transition zone marker so we could move from 1 map to another and back again without the winzone being used each time no idea if he will look into it though lol.. again I hope he does and it turns out a great little part of the engine for moving maps and back to origin point. I think I even posted it to the featured request board cant remember off hand right now..

If it was made so the map could somehow save on the fly it would work and go like this as you exit an area the current map would save like it does in the editor then when you go back to it anything that has changed/moved/destroyed would still be so as for AI not respawning not sure how that would be handled but yea i would like to see the ability to go back to a level. If i use houses in same level but the interior in another level then when exiting that house go back to the level i was in.

Storing the properties of each necessary object shouldn't be that consuming of a job since it would just be storing basic values (xyz position/angle, obj id, scale, opacity, animation frame, etc). You could likely squeeze thousands of entities of data in a 1-5 MB save file, more if using compression. Since the models and resources are part of the level itself, they would load as always and then the data file could be read to alter the objects, which I don't see taking a lot of time either since only some objects would need to be manipulated. Of course, I'm speaking on generic terms but nothing seems out of the league of possibility to me. Lee even speculated this was what he hoped to do way back when Reloaded development began, although that was long before all the performance concerns came about.

Actually I was just thinking... I can't recall if you can even save games in Reloaded yet (save games during game play). But if you think about how save games work your basically saving all the variables and entity conditions from the moment you saved. If there is a way to use that type of method per map , there may be some hints as a way to get open world games working. You'd have to have some other type of process happen though to make sure the variables compare with each other properly to present the proper current result.



Also ignoring explosions and RPG missile launch data would be important when leaving a map so you dont return to an explosion occurring as if no time has passed. This however sounds more like a job for Lee as with LUA we are far too limited at the moment to try anything like this our selves. Plus this would require am external file writing and reading system.



We had a similar system work for us in x9 with a couple of mods and some crud stock commands and workarounds.



Ohh and about the Steam release... the reviews are going to be interesting considering we won't have the ability to create indoor scenes during that time. When people think FPS they don't entirely first think about what kind of bumpy hills they can make for a shooting coarse. I have a weird prediction that it may get some negative early feedback due to this.

I am very much looking forward to the steam release.

When I first joined the community, there were so many people using FPSC and the forums were a vibrant, exciting place to be. The amount of creativity shown by people was amazing.

I'm hoping the release brings that back to FPSCR, when people were trying new things and creating amazing new content. Seeing that creativity fostered it in me and others.

I think there are a few members already who have done some fairly cool stuff. I'm sure more new people will all help to make the forums more active and busy. Not to mention more cool things we didn't think we could do, being done. Still a tough comparison, as Reloaded is beta, FPSC never had that. It was a launched product from day one, not without issues of course, but it was a different kettle of fish back then than it is now. I think the Steam release (hopefully) will bring many new members to the fold!

all standard information on dynamic entities is already stored while the level is active - health, location etc - so it would only really need to load those instead of the defaults when the map is "reloaded" and technically all static objects wouldn't likely be moved anyway so no worries there (although explosions and stuff can move them this is not really a major issue for the main part and i'm sure mostly a working "dynamic" only save state would suit for now.
(p.s. i'm talking about returning to a level here)
therefore the load time really wouldn't be all that much different - it might even be quicker as enemies will already be dead and thus not loaded (i'm not sure if anyone noticed but dead bodies don't remain anyway - for now at least)
it's just a case of storing those values and making sure they are read correctly instead of the defaults.

Hope Rick and Lee take a look at this thread. Lot of great ideas here. Also I don't think there is any any problems with the maps size the way it is at the moment (can be changed later). Considering the general public that would start using Reloaded will most likely not know how to optimize their levels to begin with and right now you can't even fill the map size we have without running into preference issues.







By the way... most FPS games today are not open world and it was never really the selling point for Reloaded. It was "outdoor levels". As much as we'd love to have it. Ironically enough if we want to talk about the most important stuff, I would personally say the ability to build an indoor room would be a great start... Also most FPS games today use maps that are a half to a quarter the size of what were using right now. Unless your referencing Fallout/Skyrim/FarCry. So I would disagree that the current map size would give us any negative feedback from Steam. However the inability to currently build indoor maps with ease... will be a big problem.



I will agree that I'm not sure were ready for a steam release anytime soon. Though instead of that being because we can't build a endless map... I think a lot of people would like to start building a room as soon as they get the engine. And it just won't be possible for them.







The AI scripts are consistently getting better with each new build and will continue to do so. Also you can edit the scripts to some degree yourself. Bit confused though what you mean by plugins? I am unsure as to how the Character Creator will work... but that is another thing TGC is working on as well. For me personally I would like more control over our custom character scripting abilities.

Just to quickly say... open world would be nice but is not essential.. the maps are pretty big.. especially for use as multiplayer maps you probably would only want to use a fraction of the size of them in order to make it more playable for people... people don't want to wander around for ages unable to find anyone... that would be the opposite of action packed gameplay! Though for single-player I can understand why a big open world might be appealing.



As for the "Don't put on Steam argument" I personally can't wait to see the release on Steam as soon as the product is ready as that means multiplayer!!!

Yes, this is a big issue still. Apart from obvious issues over the development of Reloaded, one reason I have not even attempted to begin anything like a full game is because there are nothing but soldiers to use. Even the best artists here haven't got anything working 100% yet in this regard either, so we are very limited in anything beyond making scenes or basic shooters.

It is possible to script simple interaction with a character, even with animations probably, but only with a soldier, and only with the anims available. Because of not having a decent civilian character, I have never much messed around with it. Part of the trouble I think is that most artists capable of making decent characters are not going to be scripters and vice versa. None of my attempts to get a more normally dressed character into Reloaded and animating have come close. Even a simple cylinder with an anim making it bend would not work for me. The only real info I get about it relates to 3DS Max and as I am no expert in bones and skinning in Blender, is not much help.

This will be addressed down the line I imagine. The Character creator may well help a fair bit as well. As is, I see only a very few people making characters for Reloaded for the foreseeable future.

I really want to see access to more key inputs, preferably all of them, but I can see how that may interfere with hard coded keys. Still we should be able to define any keys/mouse inputs we like in the game options really. I think adding Lua commands to detect more than e is a must and will transform our scripting options instantly. Also creating new entities via lua would also be very useful indeed. I have mentioned this before, even sent 2 lists of command ideas over time when asked by TGC, but yet to see these particular features looked at, some have already been added . I understand things have priority, but those two commands would make Reloaded so much more useful for more general interaction, I think they are a must have, sooner rather than later. If I had both of those, my survival scripts would be so much more likely to be completed. I have been waiting on either command for months now

I know people have created their own lua commands with some modding, but I want to stick with what Reloaded has by default if I can. If of course these commands do not appear at all, I will be forced to try them at some point, if I intend to make an actual game.

Incidentally, this

raises the issue: is there a way to build a game with a smaller-sized terrain? This could, among other things, give a serious FPS boost.

I have been on at lee about this for quite some time lol a smaller terrain size options would be helpful..