Work In Progress / Morning Mountain stroll (Comp Phase 2 demo level)

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wizard of id
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Posted: 29th Jul 2014 11:53
Finally completed the phase 2 demo of Morning Mountain stroll.
Map Layout


Some game play






Your feedback will be Much appreciated and always enjoyed.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_pFfSjYuZXkOFdFakQ1X1A1amM/edit?usp=sharing
unfamillia
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Posted: 29th Jul 2014 12:33
Is this your final version for the comp mate? It looks great! Whenever I work on my game, I sit there and think, "Yeah, this game is awesome", then I come to the forums and see everyone else's entries! That's when a single tear rolls down my cheek...."why didn't I make an outside level?!"

I will give yours a try tonight when I get back from work.

Is this game open for constructive criticism or is this the version to be handed in?

Cheers

Jay.

wizard of id
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Posted: 29th Jul 2014 12:41
Quote: "Is this game open for constructive criticism or is this the version to be handed in? "
This is the version handed in.However considering there will still be the possibility of releasing the demo with the software on steam, There is no reason why changes can't be made as needed to improve it even more.

Quote: "Is this your final version for the comp mate? It looks great! Whenever I work on my game, I sit there and think, "Yeah, this game is awesome", then I come to the forums and see everyone else's entries!"
I was exactly the same, then I made the final 10, and relaxed a bit, and just went with it, and added a bit by bit every day, till I was happy.Besides I am not looking to please any on with it, some will like it some won't just the way the cookie crumbles, however I put every in it short of selling my soul to the devil.

I am pretty tired now, so looking forward to taking a week or so break before getting back into making media.
DVader
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Posted: 29th Jul 2014 12:50
Moved as requested. Gonna check it out now, see how it runs!



SPECS: Q6600 CPU. Nvidia 260GTX. 8 Gig Memory. Win 7.
wizard of id
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Posted: 20th Aug 2014 06:19
I have requested this thread be moved back to WIP while I improve on it, and will be spending the next few days upgrading stuff, I want to replace the bridges and have new other thing in mind that I will be doing, I do like the tunnels but they are missing some thing, and might change them completely.

If you don't know already this level won the first comp for reloaded, and if you do I haven't tried it yet, kindly give it a try and provide feedback on what you think can be improved on, it will be greatly appreciated.I have been asked if I want to release the level for the steam version of the software.This a great honor and look forward to the challenge, however I do want to put the best reloaded foot forward for the steam release and which is why I am asking for your feedback and support on the matter.

Already have this in mind, to replace the tunnels with, do keep in mind that all additional models made or replaced will be released with the level, so you will be able to use the model upgraded or added in your own games.

So I look forward to what you have to say good or bad

tomjscott
User Banned
Posted: 20th Aug 2014 15:36
I played your level shortly after it was available when the contest ended.

The Good:
1. Very well designed models with excellent level structure and placement of entities and occasional ambient sounds
2. Nice music track.

The Bad:
1. No story, plot, or reason for being
2. No game play mechanics
3. The level consisted solely of getting to the next group of bad guys and killing them. After a while I just kept wondering if it was ever going to end.
4. Constantly getting killed by rocket men and having to slowly chip away at them to get to the next set of rocket men
5. No real progression of power or threat. Started with an Uzi and soon got rocket launcher.

This level could benefit well from a story, game play mechanics, and true progression from beginning to end. I have to be honest and say that I only played the entire level out of respect for your placing 1st and to give it all the chance in the world to improve as it went along. I know this may sound a bit harsh, but I'm giving it my honest evaluation. I think this could be improved so that it is something truly special given the time and effort.

System Specs: OS - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1, CPU - AMD Phenom II X4 945, 3.0Ghz, RAM - 8Gb DDR3, GFX Card - 2048MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 640, FPSC-R Version - Beta 1.0071
wizard of id
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Posted: 20th Aug 2014 16:50
No issues I said good or bad However I can script to save my life so game play mechanics is beyond my reach, thought this is some thing I would like to do, I couldn't care much for scripting, and as said in the read me, I rather do what I able to do good with the level designing and such.

It will be a weak point of the level, I am hoping to make up for that in other areas.I do however feel adding a story and putting effort into some thing that will only ever be a single level, I am not planing on creating a full feature game, I still deem it pointless excise adding a story, it's a demo level and my concentration will be on visual aspect and "Fun" of killing bad guys,

Quote: " Having to slowly chip away at them"
This is exactly what I wanted to do and create and because you get rocketmen early on it's only fair to have a rocket launcher your self, the problem however is if you solely rely on the rocket launcher you will run out of ammo, and this will result in getting into fights without the launcher so the object is there is a mixture of AI paired with rocket men so you don't always have to use the launcher and spare the ammo when you do need it, the 25 odd ammo that you pick up, when using a mixture of the other weapons will give you a fair chance to get to the end of the level where there is more rocket ammo at the end.I definitely considered the impact of the rocket men on the level and decided it's a risk worth taking, some is going to like the idea some will not, it is a single level and I have to consider make it to easy early on the level will be 5 minutes long, make it long hard quickly on, start out with a rocket men once or twice and the player should be aware of how the rocket men looks like and what he does.

Honestly I am happy with the AI placement (there is no point running a million miles from a single AI and then another million miles to get the to the next single AI, it is an "FPS" after all I wanted thick and fast) and the general layout, I do understand that you have a stronger sense for scripting and feel stronger about that aspect than I do and as such you feel it to be more important than I do.

Again thanks for the feedback however, certain aspects I unfortunately don't agree with it would serve no direct purpose adding a story or elaborate scripting scheme would perhaps benefit a more rounded level and as said my object from the readme was visuals and level design. My object is a still basic FPS get from point A to point B, shoot the bad guys have fun and enjoy the scenery.

That said it may reflect badly on my part on not agreeing, with a story or scripting as not being a well rounded game designer, I have no problem/shame in saying I can't script and it doesn't interest in the least bit it is the reason why I have been with FPSC for many years I don't have to script a single line of code to make a game, if people are of the opinion it makes any I make or any else for that matter mediocre then so be it, they keep forgetting why people have chosen this software, to be able to make a game without a single line of code, and I think this what TGC also considered in judging, unfortunately we will never know what they concentrated when judging but it was definitely not how well you can script or how good the story was.In a future comp, I will definitely have my work cut out for me as scripting, story telling and other game elements become more important aspect, as the reloaded becomes a more completed project.

It was not my intention to defend my level with either bad or good feeback, but to give you and the rest of the forum members some insight into my thought processes and what my own personal limitations is, and as a result of that if I can't work on that aspect which other areas do benefit from a once over and what I am looking for specifically in the feedback.

So again, thanks for the feedback, I dotted down the useful and appropriate points I need to look at
Gtox
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Posted: 21st Aug 2014 06:57
I think that the judges were not necessarily looking for the best game, but the best showcase of the engine. Scripting is a highly specialized skill, not many FPSCR users have advanced scripting skills (which is why they use FPSCR), which is why a scripting-intensive game like Rescue the Princess was not seen as the best showcase for Reloaded, and why Morning Mountain Stroll did well.
Uman
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Posted: 21st Aug 2014 22:30
wizard of id,

I downloaded all of the top Winner Games displayed at the relevant page at this web site.

I played Morning Mountain Stroll and took it for what it is and not what it might be - which it is not.

I found the Game to be well deserving buy a long way of its placement and enjoyed it immensely - once I become accustomed to what I was to expect after playing for a few minutes. It was in my opinion very well designed throughout given thought to the reason behind the developers concept for the level and could well see why it was designed so from various aspects including the strength and placement of AI enemies and the relativity to the Players position similarly in the game.

A hard balancing act and a hard game where some thought, planning and ingenuity on the Players part is sometimes needed and was obviously put in place to allow the player to defeat the opposition and progress. Once you got used to the game mechanics which there was some - e.g. hard points and accept that its not quite a stroll in the park (excuse the pun) it becomes totally enjoyable as one can comes to terms with the fact that Yes in this game you can get killed and decide to use some more craft and stealth and as said ingenuity in order to ensure the game is defeated. i.e. a challenge that you get satisfaction from every kill and reward. For me that all makes for a good game when it comes to FP Shooters. Hard but not too hard with some learning from the playing of how to progress most easily and Yes the sometimes repetitiveness (lack of personal patience) which initially is a little effort becomes wished for when you eventually get to the end and win by completing the game and suddenly wish it was longer.

Tip : There are ways to make life much easier in many parts and overcome stubborn opposition which is kind of cheating but not being the best game player in the world for sure as I do like to "Stroll around and enjoy the game environment too which I found very well done"

Anyway to cut this short. I would be happy to play it again and again myself. Overall I thought it was an excellent example of a single indie engine FPS Game level very well done given the technology and so on used.

Personally a little more variation may make the game or another level more enjoyable. e.g. an obviously different enemy character opponent (type, could be non human - a turret for example) which is not easy to get in Reloaded using the default ones as they are all much the same except perhaps for a pistol or a rocket launcher as it were and perhaps a little addition where enemies were encountered hiding in some building structures or similar in the way of progression if again Reloaded is ready for that in real games without issues.

I would be happy with the overall game and gameplay experience personally given as said I took it for what it was and judged it on that and thought it was good enough for me. Better and smarter characters (enemies) would be good as harder is not my bag unless they are hard because they are smart or they player has sometimes to be smart to beat them easily which this succeeded in achieving.

The other games I downloaded I did not get very far with at all as I did not like them at all and exited them after enough was enough so MMS had little opposition for me being both infuriating at times and rewarding when the thing that infuriates is overcome and that's as said why this succeeds for me and is a good recipe for enjoyable and addictive love hate relationship game play. i.e. cant live with it and can't live without it.

Give me more!

wizard of id
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 06:05
Quote: "Personally a little more variation"
Yes I agree with this, it has been on my mind from the beginning, which is what I am looking at I am not sure just yet how to go about it yet and mauling it over, I don't want overly drastic visual changes, the tunnel is worth while. I want to obscure the players view a bit in other words make the tunnels lower and smaller.

Some thing I didn't want is find the key at point B and then go to point B to get to point C, the level is long, and lee already pointed to me he spend over an hour with the level. What I will do is add some more interaction, jump, duck, crawl, without slowing down the pace too much, there is small rest gaps.

As for adding buildings, I told rick as much, I want to do this, as soon as the AI is capable of dealing with it, it is going to be another couple of versions before AI can deal with buildings better, I also want to check out what the new ambient occlusion mapping can do before deciding, on how to approach buildings.I am on the frame rate limit, it is a massively large level.

Thanks again for the feedback.
tomjscott
User Banned
Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 18:04
I know you are resistant to the idea of adding any sort of story or plot, but at the very minimum you should give a short explanation at the beginning of the game as to what the player is doing. For example, you might have a radio voice-over telling the player that he's been dropped in enemy controlled territory and must fight his way to the top of the mountain to defeat the boss before they are able to implement their terrorist plot or whatever. At least that gives the player 2 things to consider. One, that he now knows he's trying to reach the top of the mountain instead of not knowing where he's going or if there will ever be an end to it. Two, that he's out to stop the enemy from some nefarious plot. In the case of this game, the goal is somewhat artificial, but it still gives the player some goal to achieve and a reason for being there.

System Specs: OS - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1, CPU - AMD Phenom II X4 945, 3.0Ghz, RAM - 8Gb DDR3, GFX Card - 2048MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 640, FPSC-R Version - Beta 1.0071
tomjscott
User Banned
Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 18:05
Btw, if you decide you want to add any scripting elements to implement some in-game feature or gameplay element, I'd be happy to help you make it a reality.

System Specs: OS - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit SP1, CPU - AMD Phenom II X4 945, 3.0Ghz, RAM - 8Gb DDR3, GFX Card - 2048MB NVIDIA GeForce GT 640, FPSC-R Version - Beta 1.0071
wizard of id
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Posted: 22nd Aug 2014 18:39
Thanks for the offer !!!

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