I have spent a couple of days playing around with reloaded.I am still rather disappointed in the lack of per pixel lightmapping, which still means no complex shapes like pipes being rendered nice and smooth.



Directional light sources. Nope



Spot light mapping sources. Nope



A lot of work has gone into, the terrain reloaded is much better suited to outdoor scenes, which is a step in the right direction, though indoor environments is now getting the back seat. Basically FPSC in reverse though still being early beta, the construction kit doesn't tickle my fancy as it lacks the ability to build complex shape.



The construction kit is stuck in pre 2000 level design, it is a great idea, but lacks the wow factor, the construction kit is basically FPSC room segments completely deconstructed and takes 20 times longer to construct any thing useful.It will be rather sad that if reloaded still sticks to the grid system, even more depressing would be if it sticks to the 100 x 100 mesh format for AI collision to work correctly, as that means again no complex shapes of any sort and sizes again.



I really want to move away from symmetric design, the grid system of FPSC made that entirely impossible, entities could be used but, that raised collision issues.



With X10 we were promised a particle system, that ended as a big flop, since the subject hasn't been touched on, what is the plans on that, decals is horrible, and the FPSC particle system was too resource hungry.



The moving sky is a step in the right direction, since the reloaded is touting dynamic shadows again, I would love to see better implementation of dynamic lights, perhaps a dynamic day night cycle, wouldn't be out of the question.



Changing textures of objects, or aligning textures in real time or even creating basic shapes within the editor, doubtful that this practice that even most basic of engines are capable of creating will be considered, and will still heavy rely on, using pre build assets, though this common practice with most engines, being able to create meshes from with in the editor and applying textures in real time, would be not only be quicker, it will also provide opportunity to be less reliant, on prefabs.But this is to say, the collision issues of meshes larger than 100 x 100 still applies, I have yet test out the functionality of that, mostly dreading it.





A water plane again, exactly how much resources are being used by this, I can only fathom this to use a fair amount of resources, water in general isn't cheap to render.I can assume that visible parts of the plane isn't being rendered.Using a water plane is still a crude cheap method of doing it, it irks me, as it poses a limitation on designing levels again, having the option of paint water as needed and being able to raise the water levels in real-time would save me count hours of having to lower the terrain in order to get the necessary water height needed.Creating meshes with in the editor works even better for water as it means I am able to apply the water shader to it and any other fluid textures place the mesh where water is needed, and done.



Second aspect that irks me that I have managed to work around is useless faces not viewable to the player being rendered irrespective of culling taking place, it means I had to make several mesh changes, to remove faces not needed in order to get more out of the the detail I have started adding to my work.



Though this is just the general impression of reloaded thus and it still being early days some things might change, I would be annoyed for all intends and purposes if I am forced again to work my behind off twice as much as I should have to with reloaded if it clings to some annoying FPSC fundamentals again that made it damn near impossible to create a realistic environment, with having to apply a billion new work arounds to some thing which should have been able to in a few clicks.

All of that in general seems to be very fair comment and outlining things that would along with many other things suggested by many various users many times as being what Reloaded could, should or might ideally provide for.



Some at least of those things might be said to be both sensible to include and helpful to user/game makers and to be things which one might expect to see in a modern game maker/engine so as users can make better games that they can deploy to the enjoyment of the end game players and also perhaps importantly to place the product in a reasonable position of professional esteem.



Much of what we have to date as is making up what Reloaded is comprised of are quite Basic interpretations of the available features. Basic Terrain, Basic Water, Basic AI, Basic Weapons and to come Basic building feature (Construction Kit) and so on.



Some of the features outlined which are mentioned very desirable though they are, either as additional features which could be added or existing features which might ideally be updated and improved to be and include a much higher level of quality and more sub features as mentioned are clearly things which would enhance the product and lift it to a somewhat higher specification as a Game Making product.



Many of them add to the sophistication and complexity of the features and make for a better product all round, however that can only be the case if they are included in a fashion which does not impact on the product, the users ability to make games with it and the final games made and distributed with it. i.e. they add to the product and not detract from it by introducing things that cause the engine to become unstable in any way and result in swings and roundabouts by adding valuable features but causing other impacting detrimental effects which cancel out the overall benefit by causing more problems that are not needed which make the game making and playing take longer or worse.



More features and sophistication is of little use if badly implemented or cause issues and instabilities which become more of a nuisance than the worth of it for game makers and impact by reducing enjoyment of end game play. That is quality over quantity is best.



As said Reloaded is currently composed of features which are quite Basic and one could say only partly developed both in practical terms and with the level of quality and range of sub features they provide. Terrain, water and AI for example where much improvement could be said to be desirable by a long way and these are core features.



Of course adding much additional advanced sophistication and complexity to the core features alone will no doubt put a much heavier requirement on the engines need to be able to manage all those extra things efficiently and impact on performance and stability.



It would seem that asking for more to be added in any major way of adding more complexity and range of internal feature, sub features even to the existing core features at the moment is asking too much.



Thus who knows at this stage how adding a lot more features either not even scheduled or asked/suggested to date could be contemplated or supported. There are literally hundreds of things that could and perhaps should be added. How that could ever be contemplated at the moment at least I don't quite see it. Examples are particles and alike. No particles, no particle weapons and so on.



At this stage it would seem that achieving a stable core with the basic level of features is a somewhat difficult task to deliver to say the least. Looks like adding a lot of sophisticated, complex and or advanced features are likely at the very least to be a long way off if indeed they could ever be accommodated.



A basic engine feature set is at this stage itself is looking like enough of a difficult undertaking to get to and achieve with acceptable quality, performance and stability.



All desirable as said suggestions perhaps but not sure they are very realistic or will ever be so. You may have to accept that Reloaded will have to be what the engine can sustain and deliver whatever that might be. At the moment it is what it is and nothing more.



Sooner or later it has to move on and things may become clearer if they are not already so.

You know some things isn't sophisticated, tested the AI collision with 100 x 100 floors and 200 x 200 and guess what it doesn't work.



Though lee has been working on performance issues, and mostly put effort into the terrain, but that is all, come construction kit, I can nearly say with 100% accuracy it will be 100 x 100 floor meshes yet again or else collision doesn't work.



Sorry that simply isn't good enough, it is not up for debate, 3 FPSC engines later and still stuck on the retarded 100 x 100 mesh system and space.Though that is still speculation at this point, as mentioned this engine is still in development, I want to address that issue while it is still in development, the collision problem is the BIGGEST head ache, second to per pixel light mapping allowing ZERO complex meshes.



I have created easily over 50 thousand meshes for FPSC, all around collision issues, I shouldn't have to work around it, I should be able to create mesh X plop it in the engine at spot B put an entity on it and that should be the end of it.



I am now forced to created a wall mesh and a matching floor, pending the complexity it's always flat you can never ever create a decent multi layer floor lay out as it always requires a 1000 100 x 100 purposely cut floors at the correct angles and height.



So no it isn't a fancy request it's basic collision that every one else except FPSC manages to do.I have been a loyal supporter of all FPSC engines, if sounds like I am irked and irritated.I am voicing it.



Rolfy will tell you exactly what I mean when I say collision is FPSC biggest issue.



No not a single item I have mentioned is an advanced feature, 3D game studio A6, A5 and A4 a few years before FPSC manged to afford flags to textures and meshes, better light mapping by means of a plugin.



Half-life manged to apply textures to meshes to avoid rendering out of sight faces and predates FPSC by a good few years, Half-life 2 and the episodes still makes uses of this because it is 100% efficient, in fact plenty of engines makes use of this method or have the prefabs they use optimized.



It's simple, basic things that it should have by default, seriously even if can have only 1 it would be that retarded FPSC collision code burnt to a crispy pile of good for nothing ash :p



Uman don't worry isn't nothing against you

I am hearing you Wiz, it was in fact the introduction of space to Classic that put the final nail in the coffin where npc collision with arbitrary meshes was concerned.



It is early days though and as far as I can tell there is no npc collision, 100x00 or otherwise, in Reloaded at the moment, I don't know maybe you found it was during tests.

I believe it is something Lee will definitely address when he finishes up with performance, it is just the way it is and to me fps and memory are simply the first to deal with (even as a media creator I know whats most important). Should have been dealt with earlier before any features were even considered. You cant create a level designer for outdoor scenes using a grid collision system and I think Lee is aware of this. I certainly don't want to be slicing meshes anymore.



As far as the construction kit goes I believe this will be a great tool, you cant expect to model per se in the engine, but the ability to build your own prefabs using any size and shape of mesh (this is intended to be how it works) will open up doors for us modelers and users alike, you can in fact drop textures on meshes in this already and they intend that you could do this per face. It already uses snap to vertex so I reckon we can take it for granted that it won't be limited to the 100x100 grid, though it should be in there simply to allow for the old method of painting segments for those who want it. Just not a part of the collision system.

What you see in the construction kit videos is very basic and this includes the example media, I can see you putting your own stuff into it and getting amazing results.



For example: When I first saw it I thought of the model below and saw the potential for these prefabs where you could use it to build and users could take it apart to re-use and rebuild the meshes.











I agree there are many things not in place that could have been by now such as lighting and npc collision, As a modeler I am getting frustrated with the camera height which looks ok till you start to drop smaller room size objects in there and realize the perspective and height of the player is way off. This may cause issues with media created by users that will require scaling when it's fixed, another thing that may well be in the editor. But not going to say anything right now as I was one of those who insisted Lee drop the features and fix the engine



It's good to have you on board as you are just as informed as I am when it comes to these things and we need that around here, I wouldn't worry about all this too much all the same as I reckon it will all fall into place as it goes along, just waiting till the engine is stable and then we can ask for the other important requirements.(Not features but basic needs)

Thanks for the reassurance, really really really really really really need that collision working as it should.



My other niggle is that really should be an option to remove the water plane and the terrain plane, or open start a new level and specify the size of the terrain or water plane.



Though I am not complaining the terrain is pretty much awesome and excellently implemented, but I see some potential, cliff wall fall off is a bit of a hit and a miss for me, I would have love the option of being able to right click with a cliff selected to drag it to a better angle or place, it would mean you would be able to create an over hang, however this would require a considerable amount of terrain code having to be rewritten not holding my breath for some thing like that.



Yes you are correct, beta still , mesh collision is still a long way off...no harm in shouting really loudly that collision must super awesome...hopefully lee hears me :p



The construction kit, better be some thing special.



Thought you have both a lot of indoor and outdoor design experience, I have mostly indoor, I think reloaded can help my outdoor skills to be honed.After which I want to combine the two.



What I also like is you see it from the content creation aspect, which has definitely provided a good amount of head aches.



Question will ladders finally work ? What about proper enclosed lift entities, I think probably after collision, next would be the physics engine that will hamper content creation, probably too early to say yet, rather scream :p