I think it time for me to stop moaning and say how well you have all done and it will be one of the best engines around my early post were rubbish keep up the great work lee and rick and every one else from now on nothing but positive

But if you stop moaning then how they going to no that the product not running very well.



for me reloaded is running very bad so should I just say nothing and never get these things fixed.



Best s4real

Hi,



Moaning is good, it let's us know you are not happy! We hear you loud and clear and we are on the fixes and techniques to ensure Reloaded delivers!



Keep sending feedback if you need to.



Rick

I wasn't going to comment on this post because well its



Feedback is key to any development TGC are making a product and while it will work great on some computers others will have alot of problems.



Yes we were a bit fed up but i believe the community have spoken and now know whats going on and have a better idea whats to come so we await the next beta.

yes you guys are right if you don't moan you would never get any thing done I was just testing the water to see there was any other people who feel like me thanks for your feed back

There are probably a lot of people that feel like you, heck we are not impressed so far with what we have seen which is why we are still working in classic FPSC. We have not seen anything that really stands out or makes us go "wow, that is impressive". Being a programmer/coder ourselves, we have not seen anything yet that we could not or have not done with our classic source. We do follow the blogs and threads here and keep tabs on any new feature that comes out. Mind you, we also know that it takes time to make a good product, particularly one that works for a large diverse group of people. You have people that do this for a hobby, some that do this for a living, some just use it for school projects, some users are young, some older, some of us in the middle. You can't please everyone, and TGC have a lot to achieve for such a diverse group.



One can take a bruised apple and polish it, and what do you have? Still a bruised apple, but that does not mean you can't eat it. You have concerns, voice them so that the key people may see them and say "hey we missed that, good catch". A lot of people probably do not post their concerns for fear of backlash from others for not "following the norm". It does not matter to me if 99% of the users like the product- if we don't, we'll say so. So don't let anyone deter you. Part of being a company producing a product is not only to get pats on the back and massive praises, but to be able to take criticism and learn how to work that into their mesh to fix errors.

It's not moaning, it's feedback expressed in a personal way.

Think of it as an investment.



If TGC can stand it you may end up with a better Game Maker.



That will hopefully then help TGC and users all and to continue to update it to make it even better.



All for the long term good.



You may have to wait longer but be happier to be there.

Hi, Lee and I are very thick skinned. We will not shy away from the truth and will meet issues head on. With a task by task approach we will refine Reloaded until it does what we intended it to do.



Perhaps people can moan in a more positive way?



Rick

Please define "positive way" so we can help each other. More information, less attitude, both, neither?



The majority of the moaning is between us users, and not us and TGC. Many of us, along with TGC recognize that there is a problem, but some here want to believe that everything will be fixed with the next beta and we should stop moaning. The star-ship of Reloaded (terrain) is still causing major issues on most computers after a year of development. If we don't complain, and loudly, we fear that this issue will be passed over and more features will be added to satisfy the few and new.



Brian.

From a developer's point of view. While we have done well in Classic; have sold developments in classic; and still work in classic, there are some things that we hope do not get carried over onto this development:



* lack of technical support- we had emailed support over an issue one time and got some mumbo-jumbo response that really did not help. I had to email the man himself. I guess that was our bad thinking the people answering the emails actually know the product. And now you have BETA's out of the gate and no real way to report issues or track bugs yet. Take a look on your classic side- how many issues go unanswered? A lot. Why? Because either A) you do not know the answer; B) people told to upgrade (yes, upgrading is the magical answer that solves everything). Are we going to see the same on Reloaded side now? Are each issue going to get the same fair response that others will receive? In other words, for once I would like to hear a valid reply to an issue that will not require the need to "patch" my install with two versions or upgrade.



* lack of knowledge with versions- again, this is a big issue to us. We still work in v1.17 and had a major issue during a development. When we inquired about this (even providing screens, videos, etc), what did we get as a response? "We're beyond that version and unable to assist you in why it is happening". In other words, I would need to scrap the development and upgrade (v1.19 at the time). However, we fixed the issue ourselves.



* lack of finishing- this is a big one for us. We've spent countless hours showing our associates your software, and I know for a fact a few of them bought it and those same people are "humming and hawing" over whether they want to invest into Reloaded or move on. What am I referring to? The fact you left classic in the state it is in. You moved onto Reloaded, clone-stamped your "the focus is on Reloaded now" comment, and classic was being worked on by two community members. Oh wait, as of the other day s4real stated they had no time to work on updates (and those are the unofficial). What about compiling a final finished official so that users can use it? Some of the people I spoke of earlier are still in BETA waiting and waiting, while one has downgraded, and another is contemplating moving on. While we use v1.17, we have a development we're about to start and are wondering if we should at least upgrade to the final version (v1.20). But it's still stuck in limbo after how long? Can you guarantee that Reloaded will not suffer the same fate? Convince me that it is worthwhile to move all developments from classic to Reloaded and that there will be a finished "workable" version.







I am sorry, but from where I stand it is really hard to moan in a "positive way" when we've had to deal with the above. It seems that only a "select few" get heard and the rest get ignored. So how would you like us to be positive? Shall I tell our associates "don't bother investing; I'm positive we're all better off using something else", or does our money not matter. While our moans have to do with Classic, I hope that these habits are not carried over into Reloaded. I don't want to have to deal with these same issues if I and my associates I spoke of invest money and years into this only to see it all repeated. We're not anti-TGC and have always been proud showing our work and such with it, but please understand that these items I mentioned may seem small and insignificant to some, they are big things to small developers like us and our associates. Our team is small- it consists of myself, my wife, my daughter, and a couple others. We have to do all our own work, and we have invested a lot of time in our developments. We get opportunities to present our work to other companies and clients. And we do talk to other companies- in other words, word of mouth goes a long way.

I was actually disappointed with how Classic went somewhat unfinished. There were issues I was bringing up nearly 5 years ago? That are still there. So the product never actually got completed. Which was a shame as I bought every known model pack for it and additional software. Was pretty serious about working with it and I had one notable embarrassing presentation of a game I made with it at a convention. I kind of felt like Phil Fish in Indie Games: The Movie during his launch. Embarrassed and just frustrated, however it wasn't my fault.



We did however collectively vote to start FPSC from scratch rather than build upon Classic. If everyone recalls? Also looking at the feature voting system on the website everyone was voting for odd and obscure items such as a Character Creator and Stand Alone export. Things we don't need till we have proper AI in place and stability. I'm assuming the community is primarily comprised of very young people and it might change the direction of things when their input overseas the long term members that wish to make games beyond just sharing with friends.

Hi,



With FPSCR we are responding to community views and doing things differently this time. The main issue with Reloaded is that the core engine needs to be fine tuned and this is where we're spending a lot of our time right now.



I feel we are listening more and focusing on the issues that matter, we're also fully committed to this version for the long term.



When I mentioned moaning in a positive way I was suggesting that people report their issues and we'll do all we can to deal with them. As we're building this product we'd hope you'll understand that the engine is not fully set in stone and as such if one small area is wrong it can have a big affect on the rest of the engine.

The unofficial should fix a lot of the issue's but the problem was scene and myself didn't have all the model packs to fix some issues that where model pack problems only.



In fact I brought a few of the model packs to just fix some of the issues at my own cost.



In the end we had to stop because we can't aford to carry on. And for the time worked on fpsc we got nothing not even a free copy of reloaded I had to purchase that myself as well.(We did the updates for the forum not for personal gain but a little acknowledgment is also nice.)



So I hope reloaded is going to have better support than fpsc and respect the people who help them.



Then we might get a good product.



best s4real

s4real,



I am sure all users like me value you support, help and input and so to the work you and others did with maintaining FPSC Classic.



Best we Mods could do was to give out a Badge Award to you and others and I know all the Mods at least were very concerned to support that being very aware of the hard work and support you gave to TGC and their products over many years.



Everyone is very thankful and grateful to you not that its much help or enough.



There are I am sure many, many users who have contributed over many years and helped us all who often don't receive much praise and thanks when I guess they deserve more.



You have my personal thank you anyway for what its worth!

My thanks to you as well, bro', many of us users always appreciated what you and SC did for us all.

I know many of the forum users appreciated what others did, my point is its a shame TGC sometime didn't notice it because fpsc classic was pushed in a corner.



I don't think Lee or Rick understand that there might of not been Reloaded if it wasn't for a few good people keeping fpsc alive over the years they had no interest in it.





Many thanks uman and rolfy for your posts.



best s4real

It's not that they sometimes didn't notice it as much as they completely missed it, your right they had no real interest. However I am willing to give it the chance now that they are becoming more aware of who the 'few good people' actually are, I am hoping they realise now that you are certainly one of them. And what a valuable asset you have been to TGC and users of their product without asking for anything in return



Chin up bro', good things will come to you, you deserve it.

s4real I have private messaged you about this. Please get back to me.