Hi there.



First off I have to say I'm not a FPSC backer, nor have I any interest at all in this product, however I have purchased dark basic, DBPro (remember that partially functional software TGC didn't ever deem important enough to actually get working 100%), AGK and am a kickstarter backer for V2 so I think it;s fair to say I have nothing against TGC.



However, in the last newsletter Lee did an interview and I have to say how very badly he came over. Here are just two quotes from this interview



"To put it another way, a six year old could create a game in Reloaded, in just a few minutes, that would take a seasoned professional many months to do from scratch"



"Absolutely. Right now if you want to create an FPS game you have no choice but to learn quite a few fundamental coding skills, and even then your results are going to be poor at best, which will not give you much confidence."



Ok, the first one is boastful at worst, but the second one? So effectively what you are saying is that all the indie supporters who have kept you in a job could never manage to produce anything which wasn't basically s**t without your magical software? Are you actually seriously that arrogant or have you been misquoted in some way during this interview? You've openly said that FPSR is based on DBPro, which means you're still kicking out the same DX9 engine you had YEARS ago....no 64 bit support which means limited assets when 8gb of ram is about to become the norm, no DX11 (or even 10 - and presumably the need to send out the old full DX9 installer with anything commercially released with this), and I'm going to guess limited threaded support.....which leaves this massively behind the times and very much second rate to Unity to what I hear.



I've supported TGC for a long long time for what is to me a hobby, however the way you came over in this last newsletter was arrogant, conceited and down right rude! Perhaps it's time to reflect on the fact your kickstarter FAILED and wonder why that was, especially with Unity advancing ever more rapidly.



I don't mean to rant, or sound mean.....but I was genuinely offended and if I could retract my AGK V2 support I very much would.

honestly i have to agree with Santman



and i would say the biggest issue here is that FPSC Reloaded is still seen as

a easy drag n drop - make my game thing.



Why not move away from this? i mean the potential of FPSCR is big if the pipes are set in the right direction.



Dont just dont make the same fault over again with branding it "the easiest to use kidproof game maker".



Reloaded should be made more attractive towards indie studios and experienced individuals.



The biggest plus points for reloaded are from my perspective the mobile support (dont deny it, lets just face the fact that its gonna come).

This combined with multiplayer support could be used to create some interesting things.



I have to say something regarding the Construction Kit and the so much wanted Character Creation Kit.

Before i start i want to state that TGC was actually the first Company that created a Engine that used models for making maps/levels.

Think about this, look back what udk/idtech and co. was back in the day when FPSC Classic came out.

Now the current situation is - even if TGC is a trendsetter/ sometimes its just the wrong time to introduce a system like this.



However am looking forward to see what this could become and after all am here to use reloaded and i have pledged as i believed/ still believe that its well worth the time, the wait and more then worth to be seen as a competition when it comes to engine choices.

Hi All,



I've never thought of myself as 'arrogant, conceited and rude', but it's true my mouth carries on talking when my brain has gone home for the day. If I made a 'boo boo', please accept my apologies as my intention was not to insult anyone, especially an avid TGC supporter and game developer!



The first statement was really to highlight how long it would take any coder, at any experience level, to create a complete games engine from scratch (in C). It took me two years to create DarkBASIC classic (DirectX 8) and seven years to rewrite it as DBP (DirectX 9). AGK took two years (and growing) to write (with LOTS of help). Given the choice, I think a six year old would prefer to use Reloaded than Visual Studio C++



The second statement is certainly a gross generalization. This sentiment was taken from my own experiences learning to program and writing games on the early Commodore machines. I had a disc-box full of half-finished games, and all my early stuff was pretty bad. Only a mother would have loved them



None of the statements were directed to TGC users I specifically created tools like DBP and AGK so you would not have to be one of those coders who spend months and months writing a games engine (and the game too), only to find the game is not much good. By taking care of the engine side, my hope was to allow you to focus on the game making side and let us take care of the low-level stuff. And it worked too. The games and products created by you guys over the years have blown my mind, and some have even gone on to topple SkyRim off the Steam charts! I think we have one of the best game making communities on the planet, period!



If you want to add 'patronizing, defensive and obstinate' to the list, I happily accept that. On the subject of Reloaded as a kiddy game maker, I am certainly not opposed to the idea that a six year old could have fun with the tool. It means the controls are intuitive and natural, and that no instructions are required (always welcome). I am also excited to add things like LUA scripting and 'total customization of everything' to the engine as well, which I hope will give it some respectability for those looking for more control and power. If I can blend those two worlds (very difficult I agree), I think we'll have the start of a great game maker which can only get better.

It is what it is i agree on some points and would like to see 64bit & DX10 or DX11 support as i have 24gb of mem and an i7 and am being bogged down by the simple things, after reading this it made me think so i installed FPS Creator X10 and imported a few things i had on reloaded i let me tell you it wasn't far off the difference i could see was the size (area) you can build i am still sitting on the fence with this its like marmite

Some strong feelings here. Personally I am happy with Reloaded's progress so far. It could be faster, yes, but that will be improved over time. The extra features being added are a welcome addition. I'm looking forward to seeing both the building maker and the character editor. They will be very useful tools I think. of course I have yet to see their splendor, or not as the case may be



On the issue of lee being arrogant. Well I saw the same interview, and I did not get that impression. Creating a FPS game from SCRATCH would take some time, even using Unity is not from scratch, as such. The engine and libraries are all done for you. You just have to know the commands to use it. Still, I'm no expert in that field, but I got the general idea. I'm sure there was no offense meant to anyone who felt they could do it faster.



I too, have used TGC products since the original DB. They have all had their faults, but have still given me many hours of entertainment, as a hobbyist. I have no idea what you mean by unfinished with say DB Pro for instance. Apart from windows updates making a game unusable, I don't remember many issues. But it's been awhile That was, and is a nasty one though.



I'm all for making the games process more simple as well. Just not that simple it will never amount to anything. There will always be "programming snobs", who just won't look at a product designed to be easy, but as time moves on this is becoming less and less the case.

FPSC and FPSCR are for everyone that wants to create games, but doesn't understand anything about coding. We also have the right to make games. For everyone that knows how to code, theres Unity, Frostbite Engine, Unreal Engine and dozens more. If someday FPSCR can only make games with coding, I won't ever back it up again.



Having that said, I think Lee should focus on some more important aspects that were refered: we now have x64 machines, the normal tends to be 8Gb Ram, and so on. Also, I believe it's a bit early to work on Rift. I mean are there so many users in the world to make it important at this point? It should be left aside for a year or two, when performance and integration of objects and entities, the saving of more than a map to the .exe and lots of things more work properly. It seems you've started the house from the bottom, but now you want to make the walls and the roof at the same time, not focusing neither at one nor the other. And that could be tragic for FPSCR.

@Titantropo,



I'm not in the least suggesting that FPSR should be for coders only, I don't think anyone's said that. Lol. Nor as DVader's poke implies have I no interest in FPSR as I'm a programming snob (let's face it, if I were would I be using BASI

@Santman, I wasn't actually referring to anyone when I mentioned programming snobs. I can see how it looks like that after rereading my post, and I apologise for any offence taken. TGC forums are normally very good in this regard, other forums not so.

The point of issue regarding the underlying technology and the decisions made regarding that were made some time ago - bit late now to consider the current situation regarding it.



TGC and the community and users had a chance to consider the underlying core Reloaded would be built on abnd did so and for various reasons we don't need to go into now as thats a time gone by and done with, for better or worse the decision was made to develop Reloaded using the current technologies we see being used today.



Who the product is intended to be aimed at and whether or not that will be a success commercially for TGC which is what matters as well as allowing indies to make games and deploy them and how many successfully remains to be seen. Again the decision about who (target audience) the engine is aimed at by and large, first and foremost is I guess partly governed by those technologies and underlying decisions made earlier.



Reloaded will be suitable to make certain types of games by certain type of users which presumably it bests suits and is designed for in the main. You will as has been said have some difficulty in making any engine suitable for all as the aspirations and skills and tools need and more (cost and many other things) place any engine ideally in a particular place in the market. Despite what many users of different engines do by taking an engine which may be wholly unsuited to their "Resources" and try and make it work for them when often it is either too low end or two high and so success for them will always be hard work. No such thing as an ideal engine for each individual indie. We have to make the best of what we can in each individual case depending on our resources - whether skills, money time or anything else.



Making a game or enjoying trying is no easy task for many aspiring game makers or even just hobbyists.. Reloaded at least makes it more likely for many - to potentially "acheive" something approaching having made a computer game and some will no doubt do so very well which is a good thing.



We all know the score (s).



Nothing stopping Reloaded being evolved and expanded upon in various ways to attract a wider audience and user base. Success is down to how the successful the development is in doing that itself. There will be limits to who will want to use it but that's always going to be the case - unless of course you have an engine that beats all competition out of the water. i.e. better, faster, more features, easier to use and develop with, makes astounding games better than any other. Cost - well not a lot if possible or or no one may want it and so on. As far as Reloaded this time round is concerned that was never going to happen. Reloaded is an improved and better version of FPSC classic. Not the worlds best game engine to come along and rule for the next ten or twenty years, that all and sundry were likely to queue up to buy at a high cost and then make the worlds next best world beating titles with never before seen features and gameplay. You cant get there from FPSC classic with the kind of resources being used even with the kind of support we may see for Reloaded.



Nothing stopping TGC developing another engine - from scratch and using different technologies - designed for the future beyond Reloaded if the resources are available to do so and the company can do so and make that commercially viable from a standing position without an existing successful FPS Engine and more to support it in the meantime.



If TGC have the resources or had, had the resources some time back to do that - and commercially too the time was also available to do so it may have been a different matter. Point is apparently those pre-requisites were not available and are not still I guess so no point in going back the the why's now.



Making an advanced engine of world class beating proportions is a monstrous task have no doubt and there is never a guarantee of success - thus any business must have spare resources and be able to accept the risk of taking on such an undertaking and have a contingency plan for survival if things go badly wrong or turn for the worse. Then they have to be able to survive and bear any losses or simply fail and fold. We don't want that do we.



Reloaded may be the "Contingency" if successful so who knows - you may see another engine sometime down the Road. That's the business TGC are in so its not an impossible idea unless we all get too old or decide to give up or end up wealthy and retire



In the mean time Reloaded amongst other things is the bread and butter of the TGC business and no doubt they will do their best to see it succeed for that reason. If it does not then perhaps its not likely you will ever see another engine at all.



As to anyone's comments I have none regarding individuals.



Apart from that please try and keep the conversations civil. There are ways to get a point across without getting personal and offensive and rude to others so please be sensible and stick within the rules regarding these things.



Everyone has the right to comment hear at the forums as always and all are at least listened too just be nice about it. You can complain if that's the right word as it were, and or make all of your opinions known without being offensive.



Thanks.