I am trying to figure out how to build LOD models for Reloaded. Problem is, even though I understand how the system works. I can't seem to get my own models to work. I downloaded Rolfy's lod test model and tried it. It works perfectly. When I load my own models, all lod groups are shown at the same time. All 3 models are rendered at the same time on the screen and distance makes no difference. I used Rolfy's fpe file for my test that didn't work either. Now the rest of my problem.... I don't have Max, Maya, etc. I own and use 3D Canvas for most of my models. I googled for LOD info at 3DC website with no real help. I also use Milkshape, fragMotion, CharacterFX, and UUW3D. I had a look at Rolfy's model in fragMotion and Mine seem to be the same? Does anyone know how to do LOD models in these programs that will work in Reloaded? If not any clue to which software does work?





Maybe some of our programing masters can make an app that puts the different LOD models together correctly so they work in Reloaded

I finally figured out how to get my LOD models to work in Reloaded. IF anyone is interested I will make the info available.

yes i am very intrested!!

Please make this info available.

And if you do would it be ok to the FAQ?

I am working on a tutorial about how I got LOD to work for me. It may not work for others but it did for me so stay tuned.



and yes you may put it in the faq if it turns out to be of use

I'm curious about this as well.

Q. how do you know what distances the low detail model get used and swaps over to the high detail when you get closer as i have not seen any info yet.



and also interested. Thx

I would love to know too.

@ spudnick

I'm not sure about that yet. I think it will be controllable through the fpe or scripting. I also hope it's all integrated into the media import features of reloaded. Just drop the proper mesh in the slot you want, set the distances and done

Wrong model file in the tutorial download. Here is the correct file. Replace the x file in the "rolfy lod test" folder with the file in this post. And I also left out a step in the tutorial. Read through it first and you will know what I'm saying here. If you try the tutorial with the non working model I supplied, you must use the skeleton tab to change the names of the bones first. A model that already has bones named LOD_0 LOD_1 LOD_2 will break the merging skeleton. Add anything to the name. In the tutorial It was Cube_LOD_0 but I forgot to change it in the model first so it must be changed if you use it for the tutorial.

Hi Spotaru,

I loaded your non-working file 'Box_LOD_NEW_Test 7.x' into Reloaded beta 4 and it worked just fine for me. It may be that you either, put the wrong file into non-working folder or you had something wrong with your fpe when testing. Thats a lot of work to get this going.

Could you check your non-working files etc and test again so we can find why your having issues.



You should only have to create your models and export as a single .x file. I didn't use or export any bones so I reckon Fragmotion has added these extensions on import.

The important part is naming them LOD_0, LOD_1, LOD_2





;LOD System

disablebatch = 1

lod1distance = 400

lod2distance = 600



The above fields are the distances for LOD swapping.



These fields are primarily for very large or small entity's at this time to remove entity from default settings, which are too far, or close, to provide any benefit, this all may change in future it's hard to say with certainty



I would suggest if your model is of an average scale you don't include these fields in the fpe till it's set in concrete that this is the best way to go, particularly for multiple entity's such as vegetation, trees etc. Let the engine use defaults as the above disables the system which batches the model into the large dynamic buffers.



There was a bug in Beta 3 where LOD levels would appear simultaneously, this was fixed in Beta 4. The issues in Beta 4 with culling were fixed using the fields but this is also fixed for next beta.

@ rolfy



Thanks for the info. about the distance. I thought that was how it works.

As for my non working model, you are absolutely correct That happens to be one of my exports that actually does work. And thanks again.



Now I need to explai

Thank you rolfy for such info

I didnot have a clue where to find that out (Lod distance)and has given many others the information to.

Yeah, I know what your saying, it's just that the model I tested did work and I thought maybe the error was somewhere else.



Yes Max does have a proprietary LOD system but it's of no use for export to .x since this data is not saved to other file formats.



Since I only use Max I get a little confused by the hierarchy that a program like Fragmotion adds on import. I checked out the .x file itself and find 'scene root' has replaced LOD_0 as part of the template. Perhaps since Frag is primarily an animation program then it includes a lot of Anim info on default. Of course this is going to be useful for character export with LOD and for myself also this will be something to take a closer look at later.



I did not mean to imply that your tutorial is invalid, quite the opposite and I am amazed by your tenacity and ingenuity in finding a fix for your problems. Heck, even discussing this stuff is helpful to us all. You may be finding a fault with the pipeline which needs fixing so all models will work properly in Reloaded and that's why I suggest we look a little closer at things

Thanks for all your help rolfy.



I did not think you were implying anything.



is exactly what I meant by valid. And that the info is still useful.



And yes it must be something in the hierarchy or file structure or whatever it is called in other software. I ran into similar problems with change from DX8 was changing to DX9. A lot of software including 3DC had issues with the format change even with backwards compatibility built into 9, until the exporters were updated. So it's something in the exporter of 3DC that is "my" actual problem. As I pointed out in the above post, if I start with the original high poly model and structure the files like I said above, then work my way down on the poly count it does work for me. The fragmotion method allows me to switch meshes in and out and assemble "separate mesh" LODs into a working single file. Its not so much a tutorial about LOD but Spot's Adventure into How he gets his LOD models from his "Last Generation" software into the "Next Generation" Reloaded engine sometime in this generation.

I like that you dig so deep into it



Here's something you could try with whatever 3d program your using and finding issues with export.



Many engines will accept, aside from the LOD models, a dummy object at the top level of the hierarchy, this may be worth trying in Frag for instance.



A small simple box at the top level which is named after the model or in Frags case 'scene root' when exported. The engine should only load up the LOD models and ignore anything else in the file.



So your export would contain:



Dummy

LOD_0

LOD_1

LOD_2



This way the dummy would be renamed rather than your highest level LOD.

It might help if you could post up one of the offending files for me to have a look at.



I may be completely on the wrong track with this so it's a case of try and see. Maybe Mark (bond1) will drop by and give more insight, he's far more tech savvy than I am

That's a good idea. I'll give that a try in 3DC. frag? Not needed there. It seems to export LOD just fine. There may be some confusion there. I don't have any problems with frag it is very kind to x files. My problem seems to be 3DC specific but may be affecting other software as well. As all software I tried broke your test model except frag. I assumed they would not export correctly since they do not import correctly. frag is my goto program for animation and such but since it is friendly I use it to compare files when I run into these kind of problems. I will try your suggestion in 3DC and keep my fingers crossed. I will post a real non working model for you to examine as soon as I get the chance. And I also thought of trying to simply merge all 3 separate meshes together in frag instead of merging with a different file. That should export correctly.

Importing of .x files is hit and miss for any 3d software, since I don't have much use for import it never occurred to me that was the only problem you had. I assumed it was export, so what your saying is that we don't know that there is any real problem with export from Fragmotion, Milkshape etc for user created LOD models? Only 3DC?



I had thought there was going by your first post



It is very, very simple.

Three models, named LOD_0,LOD_1,LOD_2 highest detail being LOD_0. Do not attach,group,merge or link in any way, export to .x and you should be good to go





If you create your models in 3DC you can export these as single models and when imported to any other 3d app they should be in same position at 0,0,0 so no need to be moving around or positioning.

Hi,

i attached a video of my test with Lod.

I created a simple canon and test it.

at first it did not work, but then i saw rolfy post about the naming.

I named evrything correct and it work.

Thanks



Gr

Harry



http://wever.home.xs4all.nl/images/fps/lodtest.wmv

Exactly. I can not say for sure that any other program has issues with LOD. I assumed most older software, milk,wings,animator, etc. would have similar issues as their exporters have not been updated in a long time. Or in my case cannot be. Frag is updated often and works very well. I had also assumed that other users would post their experiences with their own software. Am I the only one here without max? Not having an all in one modeler, I am constantly importing and exporting from one program to another. Build primarily in 3DC, UV map in UU3D Some animation in frag etc. So yes import/export is important to me. The LOD problem is most probably entirely 3DC specific and in no way reflects on a defect of Reloaded or of it's ability to work with LOD. And it really is not an issue for me. My method works for me, If the info helps someone cool, if not, it may come in handy when peeps start animating. As in putting your mesh on another skeleton.



Thank you so much for all your help Rolfy

sorry if I had you chasing a non issue.

It would still be easier for all if Reloaded had the ability to import separate LOD meshes with just a few clicks maybe even add in collision and physics meshes too.

It's all good, some useful information in the thread and that's what counts. I too would be interested in knowing how others are getting along with LOD export in other apps.

Thing is you don't need to be using .x for export/import to other apps, only for final export, so it's really a non-issue for you.

I am also curious as to what others are doing.



In any software I have used, unless you start from scratch, and build the entire model, uv map it, apply materials , textures etc only exeption being maybe texture editing, entirely within the same program or with the assistance of proprietary plugins that allow you to switch between apps. I see no other way but import/export, whether in the x format, obj, 3ds, it's all the same because you cant open a milkshape file with 3DC and 3DC cant open wings 3d file, etc. so how do people do it?



I totally agree on the x format not being good for swapping but In my experience they all have one thing or another that is going to get broke so you learn work around it. So I really am curious

This works perfect. Thank you both for your time in figuring this out and making this info available to all of us.