I've always wanted to make a game similar to Fallout. FPS Creator was incredibly limited when it came to map size. GG has given us so much hope to create the outdoors we've all been dreaming to create. Though it has many issues that still need to be sorted out before we can even begin to attempt building such a world.

I've been modding for the past few years for Fallout 3, New Vegas and Skyrim. Their editors are quite similar to some of the features GG currently provides. I'd love to be able to one day create a game as great looking as this screen shot of Fallout 4 I took today on the lowest possible graphics settings. Believe it or not im playing the game currently on the GT 420. I plan to get a new video card monday so i can run the game at its highest possible graphics settings. I'm still amazed how great it looks at its lowest settings. These are the types of visuals I hope to one day create via GG

EDIT: I just upgraded my video card. Weee

Well the minimum specs for fallout 4 listed are ...

Intel Core i5-2300 2.8 GHz/AMD Phenom II X4 945 3.0 GHz or equivalent
8 GB RAM
30 GB free HDD space
NVIDIA GTX 550 Ti 2GB/AMD Radeon HD 7870 2GB or equivalent....

That's actually a higher mem requirement than I have .... and of course it states its 64 bit only..

The biggest thing that stands out is its DX11... Once we get the DX11 update deployed who knows ...
You may actually be able to get the GFX at that standard and finally create your dream game

Thanks, I just bought Fallout 4 and am downloading it now! I hope you get some kind of commission for making the sale!

depends how well the culling works, i can imagine a screenshot like that would be (and likely already is with the right assets) very possible but filling the entire world certainly isn't right now.

main issue is will the infinite terrain need a full turnaround with the engine, i believe it will load areas etc, so will the terrain we have now be void?
will the save and load work differently? how will you edit an infinite terrain? this i feel needs to be addressed before building constructor. vote system is not that logical and maybe they need to make a priority list a secondary list etc. so the big upgrades which may need an overhaul go in criteria 1 building makers etc priority 2 x11 priority 1ai priority 1 you know what i mean. and so maybe one can work fully on priority 1 list and the other on priority 2 list and of course your votes still count but more sensibly and with a more realistic layout just a thought

You can work with planes to simulate that fog...everything else should be do-able. You just need assets this quality and postprocessing (or colorcorrected textures)

I don't think we will ever see mainstream quality, I have yet to see an artist in GG make that kind of texturing, and if they could they wouldn't be using GG anymore, they would either be working in the industry or be using another engine that supports bigger projects, as high resolution texturing and models work better in other engines. I've been here since the start, but I cant say GG is for advanced game making, I spent 6-7 month's working on a project only to learn it couldn't be completed in GG.
The major problem I have seen is that the quality of everyone's work is so different that if I bought items from different store sellers, the quality is so different that is throws off in game.
Not trying to throw shade on GG but if there was an artist that could created REAL 4K high quality textures they would not be sold in the Store for a few bucks, they would be sold in hq texure and model websites for hundreds of dollars. There are prob a lot of grammar issues with this post. just woke up. Just my opinion.

Just chiming in here saying that most, the vast majority, of 3D stuff sold everywhere is not 4K...no where near that. You'd be surprised to see how many professional models actually only have 1k or 512x2 definition. Its just that the art is very well made so it seems that way. Having a humongous resolution does rarely lead to great quality. We are using any 4K textures in games only very recently.



-Wolf

Creating 4k textures isn't difficult, but they use up an enormous amount of video memory, so people don't use them. When you get close to objects, even in AAA games, you can see that they are mostly fairly low res.

No they don't and they aren't used in 'other' engines either if you feel that Artists around here aren't good enough you could always buy from somewhere else and use those in GG. What you will find though is that those don't look any better than the ones you avoided, it will require a lot more work on this engine and better shaders to get up to the 'standard' you are looking for. Not 'hi-res' textures.

As said above texture resolution doesn't equate to good artwork and there are as many good artists in the world not working Pro as there are good musicians who don't ever cut a record. There are even good game designers who don't ever make a AAA game. Talent and skill doesn't mean you are instantly employable and these are highly competitive industries where luck plays a huge part. Your game project didn't fail because of graphic quality so why mention it in this context?
I am going to be harsh here...sounds like you gave up and want to lay blame elsewhere, you knew at the time this was Beta software and would be a struggle, that you would have to wait for a more solid product to complete anything even remotely commercial. I know for fact you will succeed if you decide to

Hi-res has also been encouraged around here for GG by both users and TGC, this is a game engine and emphasis should be on good quality art and a graphics pipeline capable of showing it at it;s best, not high poly with huge textures.
As for GG it should be looking toward implementing materials for DX11, in fact most games today use very low res textures and material shaders. This engine definitely needs a good overhaul in the graphics department to bring it up to date but thinking that texture resolution will solve it is pretty far off the mark.

A problem i have with GG at the time are the shaders. Ok if we get DX11 then it could get better.
But we have to get Multitexturing which works correctly with the shaders.
Why?
When i only can use one Texture for a big Model then i have to use a big Texture like 4k. And i have to split up the Model in lot of tiny parts. So we got more Polygons.
Ok great. But now i will do an second Building and some Parts of this Building would use the same Texture like the Building before.Now i get a problem. I have to do a new 4k texture! But only some Parts of this Texture are different to the texture before.
And this is in my opinion a big Problem.

Of course for smaller objects it could be better if they only uses one texture.
Lee always said to me its better to use only one Texture per Model because of the performance. (one object one texture one draw call.)
Ok i can agree with this but i disagree at the same time. Because of the problem with bigger model like i said before.

An other point about better shader:
The shader which are used in the most AAA titles out there are much better as the those game gure use. yeah i write this before.
But what i mean if an model which is made of metal and there is a shader that gives the metal a bit of reflection and or bit of shine the model looks now much better.

that means if we would import a model of an AAA title in game guru it would not look that great as it looks in the AAA-Engine.

i hope you understand what i tried to say here.

If i have the time i will show here a picture of some of my models with better shader.

And of course if we artists do good work the models will look also good in GG.

edit: i uploaded now some screens. i tried some different programs (GG, Blender and Marmoset Toolbag)
i hope you can see the difference.

edit2: i dont want to say that one screen looks the best but i want to show you how different shader can look like.

Rolfy pretty much hit the nail on the head here, That said I think he forgot we also only working with a single shader on entities in most instances, while you could theoretically add your own shaders or even tweak shaders on per object basis. Getingt a scene done like that is entirely possible, just needs a good amount of work and a good designer with a plan.

Gameguru falls into a trap regarding content, as it has to keep in mind the max reuse and easy use of entities for the end users, make your own custom models suited only to a single level, then you get away with a lot more.

Content used in these games have been optimized and placed, so that models are modeled to what only needs to be visible, every thing else has either have their faces removed or blends into other things and terrian, meaning levels are tailor made, and developers can drastically increase detail from the same amount of polygons you would use in Gameguru and at that gameguru would have far less entities to boot, for that polygon count.

It is definitely about being a smart designer, gameguru users can do the same, no doubt with enough time you should get the right scene going.The second problem is that content in general every thing is neat and tidy, with very little flaws or reasonable amount of chaos/decay and damage, the real world is never like this, and is a general eye sore, it definitely isn't the engine's fault nor the artist fault if you fail to create this type of scene.

You will never be able to create a scene like that, with a negative attitude or will to learn new game design principles, it is hard work and blood sweat and tears and a can do attitude.You definitely need to have a closer look at how these people create this enviroment, understand their focal points, as well as what symmetrical and asymmetrical elements they have used.Good example imagine you have a corridor, the corridor would generally be symmetrical, your intention is to break the symmetrical aspect of it.

Adding objects in pairs on exactly the same spot on opposite sides of the corridor is symmetrical, human brain is quickly able to pick up symmetry it is hardwired to pick up on pairs of objects, and to the brain it is relative boring and uninteresting if patterns are easily found, take the pair of objects place them on opposite side of the corridor change one colour to red and the other blue, you are quickly and effectively hiding symmetry of the two objects.

One step further is to rotate and move the one side further down the corridor, breaking the symmetry even more, a Road is never flat, all windows on a building isn't always closed, when open not all of them are open at the same angles.Just a basic example I found that new Gameguru users fail to see or grasp the concept of symmetry, object scale is also another debate and issue altogether, it's the little things people don't always see, or trained to see, when combined, paints a picture of the fault lying else where.

It takes years and years of practice to avoid falling into that symmetrical trap, definitely not the artist fault or the engine's fault simply put to be harsh but polite, inexperience.

Best thing about gameguru and why we like it so much, is people don't give a damn if you have the abilities or not, if you having fun, then that is all that matters, but if you want to stand out above the rest, you will need to work hard, willing to learn new techniques, and willing to accept outside advice, then I am sure you can get a great looking level done, that will wow every one

@wizard of id - well said.

We are warming to the idea of using physically-based rendering with the new DX11 graphics pipeline, using Substance Painter as an initial source of material types and some kind of automagical conversion system inside the engine to re-use the existing default, store and DLC assets. This would then allow artists to produce the 'next-gen' texture sets that the material system would go to town with. When you boil it down, it's just an extra cube map for extra light info and finer diffuse/specular controls on a per pixel basis, both of which I've already prototyped. I don't think we'll match the latest AAA titles overnight, but by providing the basics such as proper anti-aliasing, screen-space techniques, nicer shadows and hundreds of lights for free we'll take a step in the right direction. We'll take care of things like FBX and PBR support, and keep adding pipeline elements until your GameGuru artists have everything they need to create awesome visuals.

Yes please, by 4.30 today would be great thanks Lee

While 100's of lights is great, there is a need to spot light and directional light, if you want to move close to realistic rendering of an object's light source, a single light, is very old school...

Great news - I love Substance Painter, but it's a bit frustrating that so much of it isn't usable in GameGuru at the moment.

No offence but GG can already produce better looking screenshots.

A decent artist could easily replicate that pic in GG and make it look better.

Whoa! Now there's a challenge

I in no way deem myself a decent artist but I though I would give this a go as it's good practice. Below is what I have so far, if you think it's worth progressing could someone with fallout 4 post up some more reference shot from the image in the first post e.g. house, walls, debris.

Nice screenshot. Not got Fallout 4 so can't help with reference shots, although there are plenty of youtube vids out there to check out for that sort of thing! I haven't seen any buildings that look like that so far myself, but there possibly are some on the store. nice work. I agree, you could certainly make a screenshot that looks as good as the original fallout 4 one. Making a full huge game like that of course is somewhat more difficult Still, no reason not to give it a shot! I'm all for pushing GG beyond it's limits.

Thanks DVader, YouTube is a good idea.

Lol yeah you're right, a complete game would take awhile but working just on that scene will be easier, it will also make a change from doing fantasy stuff.

You should create a new tread so we could all follow your progress on the forum this look good already the way it is now by the way

@Emrys

That's actually a really good start ..

Seems interesting

I remember the FPSC forums, this reminds me of the same good ol community who doesn't have a stick up you know what.
This will forever be a new hangout spot while I work 16 hours a day on PC

Can't wait to see more on this game.

Thanks guys, sorry for the thread hijack.

Project thread can be found here https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/213812

I actually was inspired by the work done in Fallout 3 when it came to texturing. I watched a couple documentaries on how their staff go about the entire process. Via photography scouting and texturing seams. Rather than just making a simple texture repeat around an object. In fact, I learned this technique from their staff back when they were working on Oblivion.

A model I worked on that's in the store, where I spent a considerable amount of time on the textures and shader maps is below. walking around the object allows you to see the fine detail work done using the shader maps.



While I think its quite easily possible to create the same quality textures and models for use in GG, the things that stand out with Fallout 4 is the multiple shaders running on the different models, the large dynamic layered skybox/skydome system and the way they go about culling and LODs. I will be honest that Fallout 4 up close on textures isn't as amazing as some would believe. The textures arnt 4k. I have the entire game unpacked and I can double check the scale of the texture sizes. I'll be making mods for Fallout 4 in 2016, so that is why I have the entire game unpacked on my system (models, textures, sounds and scripts). Having the ability to check out the source of how such games are made is quite helpful in learning how to replicate the same quality of work.

With the direction GG is going, I think everything I'm hoping to do will be possible. With obvious inspirations from the Fallout series.

One thing that Bethesda does pretty well is their Cell system. Whereas you can have a pretty much infinite world-space based on calling data based on what Cell the player is currently in. This does require a very large exported LOD of the landscape as well as large models such as trees groups, mountains, buildings and roads (with shaders still applied) all in one. I have played around with this a bit when making new worlds for the Skyrim mod community. I don't think its 100% required though that GG support open world, but its fun to think about. I'm just looking forward to better performance, visuals and better AI. I even bought a new video card strictly for GG and Fallout 4 lol

@Emrys, awesome screenshot there -- I hope this thread has motivated others in the modeling community of GG

If you can send me some links on their use of 'cell' groups to accelerate the rendering of larger worlds, I can make it light reading while eating my soup I spent years re-inventing the wheel in my formative years, but sometimes you just have to take your head out of the hole and look around for five minutes to get a good idea what the next logical step should be. The closest thing rattling around my head right now is a sort of hierarchical octree of data which stores nothing more than instantiation data for the world, and an ability for the graphics engine to conjure those instances instantly on demand with lots of disk swapping. I also heard in GTA 5 they stream in the textures while holding the entire world geometry in memory at once for almost instant LOD transitions from orbit down to a single paving stone.

I unfortunately don't have any resources or links or knowledge around how Bethesda or Rockstar goes about making their cells and worldspaces in the backend side of things. Though I will say those are the top players when it comes to Open World gaming. I always bring up Bethesda games as they some how are able to optimize their open world engines/games to work on mid ranged specs. Fallout 4 however is a different story.

A few links on how modders use Skyrim's engine to edit cells and worldspace:

http://wiki.tesnexus.com/index.php/Creating_an_Exterior_Worldspace

http://hoddminir.blogspot.ca/2012/02/from-heightmap-to-worldspace-in-skyrim.html





While its an awesome idea to have open world capabilities I still think the current size of the GG map is fine, for now, since we can load up different maps to jump to and back to give the illusion of a much larger world. Whenever the Fallout series releases new DLC they actually create a whole new map and have it accessible generally from a door that just loads the new map (with the ability to go back).