Product Chat / GameGuru MAX Alpha 5 Released!

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 19th Aug 2020 21:46
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For more information on what is included in Alpha 5, check out the new Sneak Peek Video:


GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 19th Aug 2020 22:07
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Looks great! Thanks for the sneak peak and alpha.

Two things (off the top of my head):

1 - Currently, when an entity is selected, to access editing it's properties, you have to click the Edit Properties button. Why not just have these properties show up automatically when an entity is selected? It would be one less click for the end-user. Have the transform stuff at the top and the rest appear below (the other buttons, such as Extract, could remain in-between). Basically, transforming, scaling, and rotating are also editing the entity. So, why not have it all exposed when an entity is selected?

2 - Currently, if you import a model and there is no material attached, you have a means of applying them now on the right-side panel. Great! Why not have it so that if you import the albedo/diffuse, that GameGuru MAX looks for the other PBR textures as well and imports/applies them automatically? This could be done by the end-user following a naming scheme (barrel_albedo, barrel_normal, etc. or even barrel_a, barrel_n, etc.). So, the end-user would select the albedo/diffuse and Max would ask, "Find the rest automatically?" If, yes, then it looks for the properly named materials in the same folder. If no, it stops and allows the end-user to manually import the remaining materials. I suggest this because other engines do this and it makes it easy, especially when importing a ton of models.
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Posted: 19th Aug 2020 22:31
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Downloading...
Thanks, Lee
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Belidos
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Posted: 19th Aug 2020 22:41
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Well my furniture looks so much better in Max, it's like night and day ....



having second thoughts about my current plan to get them in classic now ...

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Posted: 19th Aug 2020 23:16
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When importing a model, I can use the Scale slider to adjust it's size. But I can't seem to type in a number. It would be great if we could manually input the scale and not just have to rely on a slider.
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Posted: 19th Aug 2020 23:25
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Hi,

Question: Does the materials of the structures only have albedo layer? Where or how can you select the textures for the other layers (normal, specular...) and where or how can you set the value of the reflection?

Thank you very much

Greetings!
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Belidos
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Posted: 19th Aug 2020 23:57
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Argent there are three boxes under the slider to enter X y and z scale.

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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 00:11 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 00:12
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Just got a question on the YouTubes, but cannot post screenies there, so doing so here as I was just about to retire for the evening and thought it looked pretty neat:



I will field your questions later in the week once there is plenty for me to do at once. Thursday and Friday will be about getting the image system rewritten so I can enjoy resource re-use (and also generate images for the LUA system too). If you create lots of stuff, you may notice the application eating upwards of 6GB of system memory. Good in the sense we could never do that before, but bad in that you really should not need to load the same texture into memory more than once

Glad you like things so far, the Wicked Engine really brings the visuals up a notch and I think we have a good enough foundation now to build on. The features list you see on release will largely remain the same size until we fully exhaust the polish work on what we have now, thus ensuring the type of quality functionality you have been looking for over the years becomes the standard for the product. If you see me strike out on a tangent on some new crazy fool idea, do not be afraid to pull me up on it and send me back to the main list
GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 00:23
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@belidos - not when IMPORTING a model. At least not on my end. There's only the slider.
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 00:31
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First tests...

Character looks fine in editor.

Test game deforms it.
For a second I thought it was going to work
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 00:41
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Is that max????
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DVader
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 00:47 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 00:54
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I know looks very GG for some reason, but yes it's Max.

Edit- Oh wait do you mean Lee's image? Yeah looks cool, but I got as far as seeing the deform on test game, like the scale of the bones are smaller in test game than in the editor (which as I say is perfect), so not played with that yet. Will have a further look tomorrow.
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 01:01
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@Dvader
What build is that ? looks like Alpha 1 ?
You sure your using this new build ... Even the Alpha build Text looks like Alpha 1.
It should at least look more something like this..

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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 01:10
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Question - for PBR workflow in MAX - is it a SPECULAR or METALLIC workflow?
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Nomad Soul
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 03:24 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 03:32
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I noticed with some of the cellar models the dynamic shadows are not appearing in editor / game.
To fix this you need to edit the fpe file and change transparency = -1 to transparency =0.

Otherwise working great and having lots of fun
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 03:30 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 03:32
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 03:52
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Ah yes. I installed the new beta and then promptly ran the original alpha, thinking it would overwrite it. Found the new one in my documents
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OldFlak
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 05:50
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This looks pretty cool already Lee - great work!

I grabbed a whole folder structure of custom models created for Classic, and plonked them in the Users Folder and they show up nicely in MAX entity folder.
In test mode and editor, they are miles above Classics rendering - they now look much better.

Some niggles I found thus far:
Extracted entities want to move on top of other entities rather than keeping their extracted height. Example: can't place an exterior hull model over the interior part.

Illumination maps not working: perhaps not integrated yet?

Can't change colour of the lights:
Having 7 different default colour lightg\spot lights is not much use (imo) .
I have yet to use a default colour for any light source. Would be much easier and less clutter in the markers folder, to have just one light, and one spot light with a colour picker to choose the desired colour.

Shadows from light source are really jagged.

Footsteps on entities work for a bit then stop working.

Would also be good to have an official workflow list of textures to be used with models. Rather than digging around the forums for any info about on the subject. I know it is early days yet, but lets not wait for years of development to get something concrete.

Also, will we eventually get a full screen test game mode?

Upside: Impressed thus far - looking real nice.

Down side: when I fire up Classic it now looks terrible by contrast

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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 06:35
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No time to dive in, maybe next weekend, but a first glance:
1- Meshes included comes rotated, and yes, you can rotate them, but gizmo keeps the latest rotate value.
2- I can't use grass/texture tools. All those tools are unselectable.
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Belidos
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 08:08 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 10:31
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Quote: "Question - for PBR workflow in MAX - is it a SPECULAR or METALLIC workflow?"


It's a metallic/roughness workflow.

All previous classic PBR and DNSI textures should work fine. But the new default workflow is as follows:

Albedo (this is the colour in your textures)
Normal (the usual normal map, DirectX format with -y in the green channel, you have a flip normal button in entity material properties to fix this if your normal map is the wrong type)
Surface (this is a combination of AO in the Red channel, Roughness in the Green channel, and Metallic in the Blue channel.

If you use software to paint your models that has export presets (like Substance Painter etc.) you can just use the Unreal Engine export preset, it's the same workflow.

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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 09:22 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 09:30
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Only had a couple of minutes to test out.

Two issues, seems you can't select snap mode while a entity is selected.

There is an issue with texture bleeding when setting the puddle decal on the floor.

I found the freeflight speed in the editor WAY WAY too slow, seems shift no longer speeds up movement.

I find the side menu counter intuitive, but that is me, I would prefer having short cut keys to select the various options, edit properties ect, or for example I would much rather prefer that once an entity has been place to automatically switch to the properties menu bar. Will take a while to get use to the icons.Maybe put letters on the icons would be far easier to select the correct one had to cycle over the icons to get the right one I needed.
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 09:48
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Alpha is great, importing models has been so much more streamlined and all my models look so much better than classic.

@Argent_Arts I agree about the scaling when importing, when using the slider it is far too hard to get the scale just right, so being able to type in a number directly would help a lot.
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Belidos
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 10:33 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 10:35
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Quote: "@belidos - not when IMPORTING a model. At least not on my end. There's only the slider."


Yes you are right, i was thinking of the material properties after it is placed.

There are a few sliders that really could use an input field, the sliders are far too sensitive and it is very hard to get them to the exact number you need.

Quote: "I found the freeflight speed in the editor WAY WAY too slow, seems shift no longer speeds up movement."


I found this too. Also when you come out of test game your camera is reset to miles away from your placed entities, which exacerbates the slow movement.

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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 10:36 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 10:56
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@OldFlak

Quote: "Can't change colour of the lights:
Having 7 different default colour lightg\spot lights is not much use (imo) .
I have yet to use a default colour for any light source. Would be much easier and less clutter in the markers folder, to have just one light, and one spot light with a colour picker to choose the desired colour."


You can change the color of lights. Once you select a light go to the right-side panel (Entity Tools), go down to Mode, and click the first icon (Edit Properties). Once you do that you'll get an area to select a color and there is also an Advanced area to change other parameters for the selected light.

@ Lee

This is an example of why I was suggesting that entity properties be made immediately available on the right-side panel instead of having to click the Edit Properties button. Since OldFlak did not a way of changing the color of a selected light, it was assumed that you couldn't. If the properties for any selected entity were made immediately available, instead of hidden behind a mouse-click on an icon, then there would be immediate discovery by the end-user.
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 10:42
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What's up with snapping? If I set it to Grid, then it works when I initially bring an entity into the scene. But if I then select an entity already in the scene and move it via the gizmo, it doesn't snap at all.
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 11:16
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@Argent_Arts Thanks for the tip.

This bugged out for me tho.
This is what I get after selecting the light and clicking the properties icon:


Then there is no way to get away from that (or at least no obvious way to me) and back to the scene.

Also agree with the hidden properties argument - when you select an object already in the editor the properties for it should be exposed in the right panel immediately.

- - - - -
Also selecting an entity and then clicking the extract icon the entity shoots under the right panel which is super weird and unproductive, so some fine tuning required there perhaps.

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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 11:22
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What is the point of "extract" anyway? I seem to be missing what it does.

@OldFlak - I don't get what you're getting when I adjust a light (or any other entity). Things seem to be working fine (as far as that's concerned) on my end.

@ Lee - When testing the game and moving over an entity, like a floor, all is fine. But if you stop moving on the entity, the player gets stuck.
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 12:53
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Yes I noticed the collision on objects was ropey to say the least, so I can confirm that you get stuck on entities when merely touching them. Camera speed is too slow, I think it is the default speed in Wicked, which tends to start at a smaller default scale than Max. Nice to have an option for slow cam control (sometimes in GG it's a bit too fast) but in general use it needs to be a little faster. Shift does work by the way, just not as obvious as in GG.

My Thing model now just crashes Max when trying to load it or import it. Same with several custom characters/objects which work fine in GG.

Exiting via the menu still leaves you in a perpetual confirm exit screen.

Also see that the main window gets squashed to the left quite often, but not sure what causes it as yet.

Seen it through all versions so far.
12 days to go until release? It's looking like it will be a bit of a job to get this out feeling like it's 100%. I just don't see it being ready. This alpha has no terrain options, no scripting, not even the built in CC scripting options seem to be in yet. Fair enough it may not be the best indicator of what's been done yet, but for release in September? Really not much test time left now...
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 13:03 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 13:03
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i also think selecting an entity (or even better double clicking the entity) should bring up edit mode on the right panel
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 13:04
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Wonder if the engine might do _Surface texture with the textures provided (ao, roughness, metalness)
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 13:07
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Quote: "Wonder if the engine might do _Surface texture with the textures provided (ao, roughness, metalness)"


These are available when you select and go to Edit Properties. You can add the appropriate materials there.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 13:07
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@Argent_Arts : Both your early points (entity properties one click and auto-assigning textures during import) are pretty much what I had in mind, just balancing tasks to make sure we hit the deadline, but these are issues I also intend to see happen as soon as possible. It makes total sense.

@Juande : When you select a texture with the _color designation for the structure texture choice, it will automatically look for _normal and _surface, and if found, use those as well for your final texture. Just make sure all three textures are named correctly and use the DDS or PNG format. There is no manual control of reflection when choosing textures for the structure though the term is stored in the alpha of the surface texture.

@Argent_Arts : We use the METALLIC workflow with some small additional assumptions from the Wicked Engine such as storing reflectance in the alpha.

@Nomad Soul : Thanks for the tip about changing the transparency value, I did not know that one myself

@OldFlak : Great feedback, I have made some notes for the next build. The issue of the markers area being too full of fluff has been raised a few times and I am inclined to agree. We even had a great UI report done on the interface which suggested something similar. What replaces it I know not, but I think we can come up with something for light placement.

@Argent_Arts : Some assets have not been configured for correct collision right now and getting stuck will happen with this build. Fear not, physics will be calmed once all shipped assets are checked for correct settings, collision, material and behavior.
GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 13:10
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P.S. Please send in your troubled models if the import fails, we are collecting a testbed of assets to ensure the importer is well tested.
GameGuru Classic will continue to be supported with bug fixes and functionality additions.

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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 13:17
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@ Argent_Arts
Thank you mate for the tip.
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 13:43 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 13:44
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@ Argent_Arts
Quote: "What is the point of "extract" anyway? I seem to be missing what it does."

You can place a model down, and when you extract it it stays at the same height and place it over another model.
Think separate models for Building and Glass or Interior walls and Outer Building.
You can also put a model down, change its properties, and then extract it and use Shift-Click to place several clones of it around your map (keeping the same properties for all)

Quote: "I don't get what you're getting when I adjust a light (or any other entity). Things seem to be working fine (as far as that's concerned) on my end."

Yeah seams to happen when there is nothing else on the map, when I select it it puts me off the edge of the map.

@Lee
No problems - early days yet. all looks real good thus far. My models look great now even without changing the textures to the new workflow.
- - - -

I will never likely use the importer. The importer idea is OK for single models, but when you have a whole bunch using the same textures set I much prefer just putting them in the engine using good old File Explorer.


Great work thus far....

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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 15:06 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 15:07
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Hi all,
Quick question about MAX I've just tested the new build on my work machine so didn't expect too much as the specs aren't that brill.
I5 quad core, r5 2gb, 10 gig of ram. now Max does work fine although slow around 16-20 fps. Now to the question will we have the ability to switch off bloom lower shadows etc? as i did find with GG that if the bloom was off it flew on it dragged, same with shadows. yes i do understand the specs are higher and i do understand also most of you want to use these but will it be possible for those of us who want to run it at lower settings for a speed increase?
Cheers
P.s looks nice Lee so far
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Monkey Frog
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 15:37
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@ Lee

Thanks for answering our questions.

What about adding numeric entry boxes for the sliders that currently don't have them? Right now, when importing a model, you cannot type in a number for scale, but have to use the slider. If the end-user is importing several models and they need to make them all the same scale, that's very difficult using the current slider, but very easy if the end-user can type in the number they need.
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3com
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 16:24
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@ Lee
This what I get in GGMax (notice just the gizmo position)



This is I would like to get (gizmo in GG)



it is possible?
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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 17:31
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@LEE; "I know of issues except..."
"just balancing tasks to make sure we hit the deadline"

WHAT deadline? For everyone's benefit- hurrying Alpha one and Steam release
might not be the best strategy. Unless it's stated somewhere in announcements,
that release day is Sept 1, maybe take a few more days to smooth out a couple
obvious things-- here's why;

Games+From+Scratch *Youtube* reviewer is well aware of MAX coming out.
They are also notorious for reviewing new products just released-- I wouldn't be
surprised if they pull out MAX to review in the first couple days after release,
maybe a couple things will stick out, maybe not. The visual improvements just
might be all they are interested in showcasing... but never know what might jump
out in their review. No pressure! Not trying to be the bugger head -Just thought
I'd give some feedback...

First 30 seconds of this video (good promotion hu?!)


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3com
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 17:49
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About import feature:

FBX animated mesh





FBX non-animated mesh



OBJ Mesh



GLB and GLTF gave the same runtime error



As a side note, the fbx files are intended to have media merged within the file, but it appears untextured.
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GubbyBlips
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 18:21 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 18:23
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+1 for please allow UI entity angles to be entered via keyboard.
I'm a "back seat driver"- I don't have and can't get MAX yet, so apologies if
I'm incorrect, but I also don't see entity position (complete view+keyboard)
available?
They all seem they should be available together.
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qcrocknet
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 21:55
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Hello,

I installed Alpha 5, and then added all my assets from GG classic, without replacing any files from the GG max in the files folder.
When I use the launcher I have an error.


Then GG max closes.
I also attached the log.
If anything else is needed just let me know.(Or if I should report it elsewhere.)

Thank you.
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granada
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 22:00
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@ qcrocknet

Max is not ready for that yet, maybe the next build

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IvanKats
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 22:23 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 22:24
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All Wicked Engine Alphas are very unstable and buggy on my PC. I can run Alpha 4 after renaming the demo folder. When I run this version it ends up showing a black window. But it's somewhat functional. You can click on a button (that you can't see, just know where it is)) and a dialog window pops up. And when I try to move the window I have some errors you can see in the screenshots.

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 22:33 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 22:37
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IvanKats make sure your video drivers are all up to date and your VC runtimes are all installed x86 and x64 are required, your video card may not be quite up to the job Max has not been optimised yet I think minimum is GTX960
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qcrocknet
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 22:40
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Thanks @granada. I think I pushed it too much Will try without any external assets.
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IvanKats
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Posted: 20th Aug 2020 22:48 Edited at: 20th Aug 2020 22:49
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GraPhiX, thanks! I believe video drivers and VC runtimes are all OK. Only my video card really sucks.((

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osiem80
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Posted: 21st Aug 2020 01:48
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Quote: "Edit- Oh wait do you mean Lee's image? Yeah looks cool, but I got as far as seeing the deform on test game, like the scale of the bones are smaller in test game than in the editor (which as I say is perfect), so not played with that yet. Will have a further look tomorrow."

no i mean yours, looks like classic, even the shader is of very nice quality
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Preben
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Posted: 21st Aug 2020 07:50
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@Argent_Arts:

If you hold CTRL and click any slider it will change into a input field where you can enter the values directly

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Belidos
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Posted: 21st Aug 2020 07:59
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Quote: "If you hold CTRL and click any slider it will change into a input field where you can enter the values directly"


Maybe we could add hover tool tips telling you the shortcuts etc for things like this? Would make a world of difference.

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