Product Chat / Donation System For Freelancers

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LeeBamber
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Posted: 15th Mar 2018 17:17 Edited at: 14th Jul 2019 18:48
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Overview

After consulting with the GameGuru community, it was agreed that a system which allows the community to directly donate to a number of pots would help fund freelancers who want to work on specific areas of the game engine. To this end, we have designed a system which should make the process simple and transparent, allowing you to both donate and check the current funding levels in each pot.

To donate or view the current funding levels, visit: https://www.thegamecreators.com/donate/project/1721

I must stress that this money is only managed by The Game Creators and will only be used to pay freelancers who agree to work on specific features within the game engine, and no fees whatsoever are applied to the transaction (over and above the usual things such as VAT which is added to donations from Europe, so be aware of that when entering your donation amount).

Freelance Work Undertaken

Each time one of the donation pots are used to pay a freelancer, you will find the details below:

$500 - Miscellaneous - Improvements to the FBX importer code so both static and animating models can be imported (SketchFab, Fuse)
$200 - Shadow Improvements - Better shadow rendering and a free boost to FPS on highest by up to 50%
$200 - Memory Improvements - Dramatically reduced how much video memory GameGuru requires to load and play game levels
$150 - Bugs and Misc - Fixes/additions to camera clipping, backup while saving, standalone title and dynamic lighting in PBR
£250 - Misc and Asset Fixing - A large part of Mega Pack 3 has been overhauled, expect a DLC update at the end of April 2019
£400 - Bugs, Performance, and Physics - Huge bug fixing update in July, along with some performance and physics work
£10 - Asset Fixing - Teabone kindly corrected a slew of entities for the July update

Funds

Physics Improvements: A major overhaul of the Bullet Physics implementation - adding speed and stability
A.I Improvements: More scripts to enhance behavior and capability of characters, both friends, and foes
Performance Optimization: Identifying, locating and optimizing CPU and GPU bottlenecks for higher framerates
Enhancements from Issues Tracker: Target specific enhancements from the issues tracker at the discretion of the freelancer
Bugs from Issues Tracker: Target specific bugs from the issues tracker at the discretion of the freelancer
Miscellaneous: Donate to this fund so TGC can augment any of the above funds so freelance work can begin sooner
Asset Fixing: Want to see existing DLCs being updated with better geometry and textures, donate to this one

This post will remain a sticky so you can post questions about the donation system, or request additional pots to contribute to or tender for any freelance work related to the above pots. We will also post any answers to questions relating to how the donation system works if you have any. You can also email Lee directly at lee@thegamecreators.com if you want to tender directly for any of the above ideas.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 15th Mar 2018 17:18
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To start things off, and to test the system, I have donated £10 to the pots, split 80% to physics work
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synchromesh
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Posted: 15th Mar 2018 18:09 Edited at: 15th Mar 2018 18:10
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Awesome !!
But can we have a nice big "Donations " Button on the site and Forum to take us there ..
I love a button to press
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synchromesh
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Posted: 15th Mar 2018 18:18
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Ok so I donated £10 to miscellaneous
Vat Man added £2 ( $%%$%^&&** )
But all my £12 appears in miscellaneous
Is that right ?
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The Next
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Posted: 15th Mar 2018 18:39 Edited at: 15th Mar 2018 18:47
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Quote: "But all my £12 appears in miscellaneous"


That is £10 from you and £2 from Lee. The total you see is from everyone to show the current total of the pot.

Quote: "But can we have a nice big "Donations " Button on the site and Forum to take us there .."


Once we are sure it is working we will do this
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synchromesh
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Posted: 15th Mar 2018 19:17
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Quote: "Once we are sure it is working we will do this"

How will you know if there isn't a Big button to go and take a look ?
You cant rely that everyone will read this thread to find the link and if they don't they will never know ..

( Mod runs and hides from Bigger Mod )
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smallg
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Posted: 15th Mar 2018 19:19 Edited at: 15th Mar 2018 19:28
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would be better if you set it to automatically 100% for Miscellaneous and add an extra button at the top for sending the payment, a lot of people will prefer a much quicker donation system.
and make it automatically adjust the 100% on miscellaneous down as you change the others
it's possible to set a % above 100 right now, would be good to set it to limit that.
also it should list the payment types on the first page and make it clear that VAT will be added after.

donated £15, looks like all the buttons are working though
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 15th Mar 2018 19:43
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it seems to work well donated £50.00 shared it out
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 15th Mar 2018 19:58
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I gave myself a pat on the back, now where did I put the Voltarol!
Been there, done that, got all the T-Shirts!
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Zigi
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 12:52 Edited at: 16th Mar 2018 12:57
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Quote: "How will you know if there isn't a Big button to go and take a look ?
You cant rely that everyone will read this thread to find the link and if they don't they will never know .."

Yeah, the same with AGK: Python, TGC is running a 12 months test to see if there is enough interest from people for a Python version but it is literally hidden there is no mention of it or a link anywhere on the AGK or TGC page....

Also, I think the donation page should be visible to anyone, not only to people who are actually logged in to a TGC account... Why is that a secret?
And why are you charging VAT on donation? Freely given donations which is receive no reward in return in form of goods and services are VAT free in the EU... I know BREXIT, I don't know the UK rules probably different but don't mention Europe here, it VAT free in the EU.

Quote: "There are currently no freelance contracts under tender right now"

I thought Stab In Th e Dark is actually working on the physics system and waiting for funding this is where this whole donation idea come from so is this going to be a secret how much money is he require to get the job done?

Quote: "we want to build up the funds before approaching freelancers"

This is completely the opposite of the original plan but I know, it was always planned this way and I'm the one who is misunderstand everything all the time. So we just blindly donating money without knowing anything...

I don't understand why TGC doing things the way they do but no thanks.
This is not what I was expecting. I want to know what am I donating for exactly.

Good luck.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 13:43 Edited at: 16th Mar 2018 13:47
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Quote: "And why are you charging VAT on donation?"

I think its just the Law ... You have to pay VAT with business income whether its donations, tips or gifts ..
Ok a Taxi Driver could Lie about his tips but there's no paper trail to follow for that and even then I think the tax man guesses.
With this its open, transparent and a little hard to deny

I'm guessing usually the vat would be taken out of your £10 after you have donated ?
It is a little awkward if you only have a tenner to donate and kind of get charged £2 more
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The Next
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 14:16
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Quote: "Yeah, the same with AGK: Python, TGC is running a 12 months test to see if there is enough interest from people for a Python version but it is literally hidden there is no mention of it or a link anywhere on the AGK or TGC page"


I have suggested this to the team.

Quote: "Also, I think the donation page should be visible to anyone, not only to people who are actually logged in to a TGC account... Why is that a secret?"


The donation page requires you to be logged in as the data loaded on the page requires access to your account to generate. Shortly there will be another page that just gives public info which will be accessible for all.

Quote: "And why are you charging VAT on donation? Freely given donations which is receive no reward in return in form of goods and services are VAT free in the EU... I know BREXIT, I don't know the UK rules probably different but don't mention Europe here, it VAT free in the EU. "


The rule on VAT is that if you are a company and are proving any sort of goods, services or return from a payment you need to charge VAT. This would be the case on our "donations", you are getting development time in return for payment it is not immediate but it does happen so it requires VAT to be charged. I know it is annoying but this is the way it is in the EU and VAT is charged on everything, TGC are a UK registered company and have to comply with local laws. The only way around this is if you are a registered charity and TGC isn't.

Quote: "This is completely the opposite of the original plan but I know, it was always planned this way and I'm the one who is misunderstand everything all the time. So we just blindly donating money without knowing anything..."


Nothing is being donated blindly, all funds donated will go into GameGuru development, you get to choose the area and the funds are guaranteed to benefit that area of GameGuru. The system has been released to gather feedback and start the ball rolling and when Lee returns work will begin with the developers. The system was never going to tell you exactly what you were donating for that will be discussed in the forums.

As we have said all along there is no one forcing you to donate, if you don't wish to no problem
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Zigi
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 14:52 Edited at: 16th Mar 2018 15:00
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Quote: "you are getting development time in return for payment it is not immediate but it does happen so it requires VAT to be charged."


https://www.charitytaxgroup.org.uk/tax/vat/business-vs-non-business/donations-and-grants-vat-treatment/

Quote: "If the charity merely acknowledges the gift then that does not make it business income. However, if the funder requires that specific deliverables be provided in return for the funding then that generally constitutes a consideration for supply and therefore makes the payments subject to VAT."


If I press a donate button and TGC don't consider it a "gift" but consider it a funding of a certain product that I'm going to receive in return than it simply wrong. It should be not considered that way.

With the VAT in the picture this whole donation system should be design in a way to be able to consider it a "gift". We are talking about lot of money going down the toilet for no reason, I don't get a mug with a picture of Lee or a complete product or anything in fact. In case we are funding features yes we expect to receive that feature in return but not specifically especially this way if we are only donating in to "general pots" to fund development in "general".

There must be a legal way to go around this.

Quote: "Nothing is being donated blindly, all funds donated will go into GameGuru development, you get to choose the area and the funds are guaranteed to benefit that area of GameGuru."

I understand that and it sounds good if there is lot of freelancer bombing Lee with offers and his got a long list of freelancers made an offer, but we don't know that do we? We don't know that if there is anyone out there at all so we donate money blindly and only hope someone is out there in the dark and watching us and waiting...
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The Next
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 15:09
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The VAT is not a topic that is up for debate unfortunately, it is UK law that we charge VAT it can either be included in the donation amount or added as an extra (like we have done). The link you provided applies to charities the rules for businesses are different, there is no way we will be able to claim that users donating funds to development of computer software shouldn't be charged VAT, you all have access to that software and are 100% getting a return for any investment the tax man will not see it any other way.

Quote: "I understand that and it sounds good if there is lot of freelancer bombing Lee with offers and his got a long list of freelancers made an offer, but we don't know that do we? We don't know that if there is anyone out there at all so we donate money blindly and only hope someone is out there in the dark and watching us and waiting..."


I will leave that up for Lee when he returns he is the one making deals with developers. Just hold off on any donations until he has answered the questions about what is scheduled and when if that is what you want. He will make it all as transparent as possible.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 15:15
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Quote: "There must be a legal way to go around this."

I agree !!

Sponser a Lee Bamber

This rare specimen is the " only one " left in the whole world.
Trapped in his natural environment he can only code muttereing to himself constantly.
Spare a thought and help this rare specimen get the help he needs



Please Donate !!

Will that help Zigi
J/K
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Zigi
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 15:28 Edited at: 16th Mar 2018 15:34
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Quote: "The link you provided applies to charities"

If you wollow the link:
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-supply-and-consideration/vatsc50400

It is talking about it in general not only for charities and even have a section mentioning "Project Funding" and "Businesses" which is from my understanding is considered an exception when a "Business" receive donation and assure the donation is spent correctly and it is not subject of VAT if "the end result have minimal relation to the amount of each individual donation" and this is exactly what we are doing here. "Funding a Project"
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granada
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 15:31
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Never mess with the vat man,you allways loose big time .

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Zigi
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 15:43 Edited at: 16th Mar 2018 16:02
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You don't mess with it if you legally not required to pay VAT.
I'm not a lawyer and also my english is limited but as long TGC is not stick to that only TGC account holders can donate and only for a specific product to be received in return, it may be possible... It a lot of money, if TGC did not consulted with a Lawyer I think they should.

So far it seems to me, if I donate £30 and I get something worth £30 or less in return, it is require a VAT but in case I donate £30 to fund the development of something cost £3000 it is considered an exception even though I may get the end result in return but because the amount of donation is minimal compared to the overall cost of development, it is not considered directly related only fund management from the part of TGC and does not require VAT.... But probably a lawyer should look in to this or simply contact VAT man and ask what to do.

And this is the key word in my opinion "fund management". It is received as a "gift" but it need to be organized and this is what TGC is doing after all and it is a case of exception.
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The Next
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 16:00 Edited at: 16th Mar 2018 16:04
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@Zigi

There is no way TGC are going to try to trick or avoid the tax man or get into complex legal matters with HMRC it just isn't worth it.

VAT is an unavoidable fact of doing business if you are giving us £20 towards development of a product and you are getting a return from that payment then you are receiving goods or services and need to be charged VAT.

TGC are not running an investment fund, charity or a financial product that would allow payments to avoid VAT.

There is nothing on that link that indicates that TGC would be tax exempt in their current position.

To further backup the point we should be charging VAT this donation system is similar to crowd funding, which the EU recently agreed is required to charge VAT which is why you see sites such as Go Fund Me charging VAT.
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Zigi
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 16:06
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Quote: "There is nothing on that link that indicates that TGC would be tax exempt in their current position."

The "Project Funding" part is talking about "businesses" receiving donation to fund development of something is an exception but it up to Lee and TGC to consult with someone about it.

Thanks.
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The Next
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 16:10
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@Zigi

That section is not talking about software development at all it is talking about community projects where it can be seen as charitable work, that whole section does not apply to TGC at all.
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Zigi
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 17:25
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Well, I cant really figure this out, most resources I find are mentioning businesses, charities, organisations, if none of that apply to TGC and "software companies" then..... a mug would be nice with that image synchromesh linked at least the first time you donate XD
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The Next
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 17:29
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That link in particular only applies if your business is working on a charitable project. Here is the list of things that are exempt from VAT in the UK https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rates-of-vat-on-different-goods-and-services
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 18:49
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I'd like a mug with Lee's mug on it!

Been there, done that, got all the T-Shirts!
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 20:37
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can we please make the spring survey banner either smaller or moved over to the side and another banner with the donate link on,

I know the survey is important to TGC but I believe a greater awareness of the donation system is more important
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 20:39 Edited at: 16th Mar 2018 20:45
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I didn't even know the donation system was active

When i clicked the link above to it , it sent me to a login screen. When i logged in there was no donation button/page or anything?

EDIT: for some reason it asked me to log in again, then once logged in it did not take me to the donation page. so i had to go back to this forum post to click the link again while logged in in the other tab to the main tgc site. Then it took me to the right place on this tab.

So yes a donation button would be nice.
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Posted: 16th Mar 2018 20:40 Edited at: 16th Mar 2018 21:13
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Quote: "I didn't even know the donation system was active "


case in point !!!!

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Belidos
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Posted: 17th Mar 2018 10:27
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Glad someone mentioned that survey banner, can we get rid of it or do it another way please, it's being a right pain, everyou time I go to a new page it makes my screen scroll down a bit when it appears, problem is it serves to take a while to appear and keeps making me click the wring thing everything lol (on mobiles that is).

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Belidos
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Posted: 17th Mar 2018 10:28 Edited at: 17th Mar 2018 10:28
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[href]null[/href]

And there we go, it just made me double postrich lol

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Posted: 17th Mar 2018 16:04
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For some reason I can't seem to donate . I fill out the amount and the % , country then hit the button and nothing happens . I have tried yesterday and again today ..

Some days it is impossible to donate

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The Next
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Posted: 17th Mar 2018 16:24
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Quote: "for some reason it asked me to log in again, then once logged in it did not take me to the donation page."


I am working on fixing this, the login system isn't redirecting you back to the original page which it should be.

Quote: "can we please make the spring survey banner either smaller or moved over to the side and another banner with the donate link on"


One will be added

@Lance

Are you the total of the percentage boxes is 100 and none are blank?

What are you entering in the amount box and what country? I will attempt to reproduce.
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The Next
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Posted: 17th Mar 2018 16:48
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I have put a temporary banner in place at the top of the forum, will work on placement in other places later.
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Lance
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Posted: 17th Mar 2018 16:56
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I tried again and it worked ,forgot a '0' (Zero) . Old people

I am going to donate monthly for the next few months ..

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The Next
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Posted: 17th Mar 2018 17:02
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Great
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synchromesh
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Posted: 17th Mar 2018 18:07
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Now were talking !!
Watch the donations come in now ... Awesome banner
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 17th Mar 2018 18:37
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Thank you Mr Next
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Belidos
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Posted: 17th Mar 2018 20:49
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Quote: "I have put a temporary banner in place at the top of the forum, will work on placement in other places later."


That's made things worse for me on my mobile now, the screen jerkily scrolls up and down every time i try to scroll, i'm clicking all sorts of links now lol

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Posted: 17th Mar 2018 22:24
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Quote: "That's made things worse for me on my mobile now, the screen jerkily scrolls up and down every time i try to scroll, i'm clicking all sorts of links now lol"

That’s strange it’s working ok on my iPhone 6 ,what phone are you using.

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The Next
TGC Web Engineer
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Posted: 18th Mar 2018 12:21
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Works fine on mobile here as well the could be one jump as the image loads but unless you are on a very slow connnection that should happen before you can scroll.
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Belidos
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Posted: 18th Mar 2018 22:12
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My mobile connection is a slow one and that's the problem, it'll take a minute or so for the first banner to pop, then the same for the next, so i get two jumps, and if I'may too quick clicking links I can end up clicking the wrong link two or threek tones in a row, wasting my time and data allocation.

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The Next
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Posted: 19th Mar 2018 10:54
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Unfortunately there is very little I can do about that, I have changed the images to be progressive so they will download a low quality version first to fill the space and get a high quality later. But attempting to use a page before all images have loaded will cause this sort of issue, the same thing would happen if someone embedded an image in their post.
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Teabone
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Posted: 17th Apr 2018 17:44
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Big launch and the donation button is gone :o
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imothep85
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Posted: 11th May 2018 18:59
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i would like to do a donation but ony for a better lightmapping & realistic lights
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synchromesh
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Posted: 11th May 2018 21:26 Edited at: 11th May 2018 21:27
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Quote: "i would like to do a donation but ony for a better lightmapping & realistic lights"

Unfortunately you just cannot pick and choose a specific ... Unless your donation is an offer in the amount TGC couldnt refuse in which case contact Lee directly.
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LeeBamber
TGC Lead Developer
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Posted: 21st May 2018 12:40
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@imothep85: If you can find some nice middleware light mapper you would like integrated into GameGuru, I can contact the developer of that software and see how much a non-exclusive license might be for the addition to GameGuru. Writing a light mapper from scratch would be a monumental project taking quite a few months, so you probably would not want to donate the total cost of developing one I suspect.
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 21st May 2018 12:53
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@Lee do you mean something like this https://www.siliconstudio.co.jp/middleware/enlighten/en/
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Duchenkuke
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Posted: 21st May 2018 13:03 Edited at: 21st May 2018 13:12
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Please do it.. PLEASE !

It would take gg to a whole new level for sure.
https://www.siliconstudio.co.jp/middleware/enlighten/en/

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granada
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Posted: 21st May 2018 13:15
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Looks like a nice piece of software ,I wander what they would want to licence it to use in GG

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 21st May 2018 13:20 Edited at: 21st May 2018 13:34
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yes very nice probably 6 figure nice LOL



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synchromesh
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Posted: 21st May 2018 13:39
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Well done imothep85 ..
You started something here I didn't expect ..
Im in for a donation specifically for this if others are willing
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