Product Chat / For my next trick, or who says physics is broken?

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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 4th Mar 2018 18:42
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This little app by the scene commander will help you figure out which limb number is which bone.
Maybe it can assist you.
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 4th Mar 2018 19:45
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Another little tool for my collection, thanks.

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 6th Mar 2018 14:15 Edited at: 6th Mar 2018 14:15
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@Amenmoses - just a little experiment how would something like this need to be setup to work with the 'swinging' script would each link have to be separate ? would gravity work with this so when is on the floor its like a real chain when you pick it up it dangles for want of a better word lol
I am trying to make this into a weapon like a 'Chain Whip' I am sure it is possible but what do I know lol
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Earthling45
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Posted: 6th Mar 2018 15:08 Edited at: 6th Mar 2018 15:15
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I've been busy with a chain too this weekend

But it is quite demanding i've noticed, i'll upload it.

Edit: uploaded.

ketting3 and 4 should be good, 4 is a .dbo exported from fragmotion.

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Posted: 6th Mar 2018 19:33
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Basically all you need is one link, then you simply put a ton of them down and the script will chain them together.
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Posted: 6th Mar 2018 19:36
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ok will give that ago thank you
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Posted: 6th Mar 2018 19:44
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I've also added a command to remove an objects constraint, so for example if you had a chain and hit it with an axe or whatever, you could have it break at just the one link.
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Posted: 7th Mar 2018 19:07
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Quote: "Something weird going on with the textures in this one but the plank is from the 'Classics' folder I suppose. Interestingly these planks don't 'show up' when using the raycasting commands so I can't actually pick them up or push/pull them."


I think this happens because the texture is applied through the FPE as well as within the .X file itself although it looks for a .tga extension.
But also it looks for bumpent.fx which is not present.

The same problem occured with building-14 of megapack3 after applying the texture though the FPE in order to see if the lighting would be normal, because if the texture is not applied though the FPE, a structure goes black when the player is or goes near it.
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Posted: 9th Mar 2018 11:15
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Wondering what I've been up to recently?



Cylinders next!
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 9th Mar 2018 12:02 Edited at: 9th Mar 2018 12:02
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Hi Amenmoses this is superb thank you here is a single link for you to play with, I have tried to keep the texture uniform so that when you have more than one it should not look odd if I add more detail (rust etc..) it may look odd when you have them all together.

I have it standing on its end at 0,0 if you need it lay down let me know
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Posted: 9th Mar 2018 14:06
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I had to scale it up a bit as there is a minimum size a dynamic entity can be. The 'proper' way to do something like this within the limitations of a game engine is probably to create a soft body with a chain texture or similar, but this doesn't look too bad. Oh for now I've given them spherical collision, once I've done messing with the engine code some more I'll try it with a cylinder shape and use alternating hinge constraints which should look a lot better and act more naturally.

This is still a single script, next addition to the script will be to add something else on the end of the chain, let your creative juices have free reign on that one.

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GraPhiX
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Posted: 9th Mar 2018 14:14
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That is Awesome you are a genius
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Posted: 9th Mar 2018 14:16
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I have my moments.

I hope Lee isn't losing too much sleep over what I'm doing to his baby!

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granada
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Posted: 9th Mar 2018 14:19
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Very cool ,it’s fun watching this evolve over time .

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Posted: 9th Mar 2018 16:22
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Discovered what SitD meant about the 'mass' issue, hang anything large on the end of the chain and Bullet has a meltdown unless I set the 'weight' to a really low value, like 10, which then means it will swing around like mad at the slightest 'push'. Might be able to 'frig' it by placing large damping factors on the objects for now but that's a bit of a fake way of doing things. It will probably improve when I use hinge constraints instead of joints though.

(by 'meltdown' I mean that the chain acts more like an elastic band! )
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Posted: 9th Mar 2018 17:07
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The correct way to do it would be using rope physics with a chain texture.
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Posted: 9th Mar 2018 17:18
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Isn't that what I said?
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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 00:15
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Quote: "Wondering what I've been up to recently? "


Sphere shapes.

It is and looks so much more natural, the hinge, the swing, the sphere, throwing, pushing, picking up stuff, rotating them in all directions, stacking, it is an absolute joy to follow your progress.




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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 10:10
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So like I thought it looks a lot better using hinges:

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AmenMoses
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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 11:16
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And you can then do this:



Still all one script, see attachment! (just for reference, only works with my latest, unpushed, GG changes)

Script works by using the names of the entities in the 'chain', top of the chain is called 'ChainStart', thing hanging off the bottom is 'ChainEnd' and all the links are 'ChainLink'. Hopefully that is simple enough. (there are a few editables in the script to set the gap between links, negative in this case as they are overlapping, and define behaviour)

Pity the punchbag chains aren't lined up properly with the dead centre of the model but I don't make the models!
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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 13:09 Edited at: 10th Mar 2018 13:57
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I will make a new punchbag that does not look like plastic (don't mean to offend whoever created this one) this is fantastic work thank you so much
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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 13:56
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Lol, it's in Mega pack 3.

I did say earlier that we will need to have models specially made or existing ones altered to use them effectively with physics in a game. In fact it's another of those areas, like animation, sound or lighting, which needs to be mastered by the game designer.

For GG we will eventually need a lot of generic models and generic scripts that users can just throw into their games but it will take quite a lot of work to get there. Might be worth making a 'physics' pack for the store containing physics friendly versions of models once I'm done fiddling with the engine.

Having problems with cylinders at the moment, thought it would be simple after the spheres worked so well but we might need to have some extra settings in the fpe to deal with them properly.



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GraPhiX
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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 14:01
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Ok no problem give me a list of models you would like as a starter pack, I will add a icon to the BMP's much like PBR assets have an 'H' I will use 'P' to show if they are physics friendly
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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 14:15 Edited at: 10th Mar 2018 19:03
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I don't know really but maybe start with spherical stuff ( collisionmode=2 ) to start with, and things that can be connected together like the chain link.

One thing I could make a script for would be like a concertina door or window blinds. that would need a separate pieces for each 'end' of the door and another for the 'blinds' bit (like in one of the visieos I used a simple plank). One end of the 'door' can be fixed in place and the other constrained to move in only one plane, the blinds then attach between them with the hinges alternating direction so when you 'push' the door it slides open and pull to close.

In the current models all the doors tend to be animated so a bunch of simple doors might be very useful (and easy to make I imagine), you can never have enough doors!
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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 16:46
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This is really impressive work you're doing, AmenMoses.
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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 19:01
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Here is what happens if you get the hinge settings a wee bit wrong:



And here is a working cylinder.



The cylinder axis is the Y axis so models, again, need tweaking if the axis is different (in this case I just put it into fragmotion and rotated 90 degrees in Z).

I'll change the FPEs on some barrels later on just for S&Gs.

Do we need cones? Can't really think of a use for them myself but would be easy enough to add.

I'm trying to track down my scaling problem, scaled objects don't play well with my pickuppable script and I can't quite get my head around why, it's something to do with the quaternion math bits and it's giving me a nasty headache!
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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 19:14
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Have you seen mention of this fpe statement in the code?
t.tryfield_s="collisionscaling";

Changes the scale of the collision boundaries around a scaled object. Used to have to play with it when this was reloaded on scaled objects in the editor.
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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 19:51
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Yep, according to the code that's not used in GG for the simple shapes only for meshes, figured it was for when you need the collision shape to be smaller than the visible object.

Here are the barrels btw.



Think we can safely say cylinder shapes work fine.
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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 20:46
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That is sweet. Opens up a lot of game scenarios.
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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 21:11
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Quote: "The cylinder axis is the Y axis so models, again, need tweaking if the axis is different (in this case I just put it into fragmotion and rotated 90 degrees in Z)."


Hmm, btCylinderShapeX, btCylinderShapeZ
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Posted: 10th Mar 2018 21:50
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Using the default cylinder creation function already in GG, otherwise we will need a new setting in the fpe to specify which axis to use. I'm fine with creating a new setting if that's the way to go but either way (re-orientate the model or edit the fpe files) we still need the tweaking to make existing models useful in a physics environment.

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Posted: 11th Mar 2018 00:36
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Really impressive stuff here
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Posted: 11th Mar 2018 08:57
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This is just superb work, can't wait to see whats next
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Posted: 11th Mar 2018 14:05
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Aha, light bulb moment! The x,y,z position of an entity is the location of the 'unscaled' entity but the physics box position is offset by the 'scaled' values! So when I calculate the position an object is carried at relative to the player I need to use the scaled offsets but when telling the engine where to put it using the Lua commands I need to translate to unscaled offsets ... aargh, no wonder It was giving me a headache!

Now all I have to do is pull apart the math in the scripts and work out which bits need to use the scaled values and which need to use unscaled.
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Posted: 12th Mar 2018 14:41
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here is a new Punching Bag for you too play with I have put a 'P' on the BMP icon to show its 'Physics friendly' first of a 'P' pack if its ok



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Posted: 12th Mar 2018 20:20 Edited at: 12th Mar 2018 20:23
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Hmmm, no commentary necessary!



btw, I change the fpe to this:

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Posted: 12th Mar 2018 20:25 Edited at: 12th Mar 2018 20:31
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Ding Ding end of round one

Brilliant I assume the model is ok then ? I will start on some more for you I think you said some doors will get some done asap

thank you very much

PS what did you have to scale the chain link too? I will make it that size and re upload it for you

also I set it to collisionmode =2 because that was what you mentioned in the post above

Quote: "I don't know really but maybe start with spherical stuff ( collisionmode=2 ) to start with, and things that can be connected together like the chain link."


ahh my bad its a cylinder LOL can you post a table with the collision mode shapes please
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Posted: 12th Mar 2018 21:33 Edited at: 12th Mar 2018 21:43
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Collision modes (for dynamic entities at least) are 1=Box (i.e. cube or rectangle), 2=Sphere, 3=Cylinder (axis of cylinder being Y so the punch bag is perfect).

As far as scaling is concerned go by the visual size in the video, anything smaller than the chain links in the video (I didn't rescale the bag so use that for reference) won't play nice in GG (or in fact in any Bullet based engine from what I understand).

I've done a few things to the engine to minimise the chaos, the first is to cap the 'mass' calcs to 400, the second is to apply damping each 'tick' and the third is to make almost all physics objects use a common bit of code to set size and rotation (they did all have similar but separate code to do it), the exception being the composite objects (like the EBE objects) which for some strange reason need to be different (I initially changed them as well then found it screwed up collisions with EBE objects so reverted it toi the previous code).

Mass calcs and associated force values are still giving me headaches, I think for the sake of my sanity we need to keep physics objects within certain limits, i.e. nothing bigger than the punch bag or smaller than the link. That way we can ensure they play nice in the engine with the existing physics code.
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Posted: 12th Mar 2018 21:37 Edited at: 12th Mar 2018 21:41
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Just in case anyone is interested here is the current state of play of the physlib module, you can peruse the functions provide for some idea of what will be available (there is still some more stuff to be added!).

Oh, and to give you some idea of how to use the module here is the script from the punchbag video above.

The top link entity (we really need a bracket! ) is called 'ChainStart', each link is called 'ChainLink' and the punchbag is 'ChainEnd'.
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Posted: 12th Mar 2018 21:49
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ive already done a bracket but took it out, will upload it when I get chance, also when you say no bigger than the punch bag does that mean you dont want any doors atm I think they are bigger than the punch bag
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Posted: 12th Mar 2018 22:03
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I meant in a 'mass' sense, the engine currently bases the 'mass' on the volume so large thin objects are fine. As I've limited the engine mass calcs any very large objects (i.e. large volume) will also be limited to the same amount so will probably react strangely if made dynamic.

I've based the limit on the large crate btw, it turns out to be roughly 400(kg) from the mass calcs, the barrels otoh work out to be 600 so I went for 400 as the limit. I will add a Lua call to override the mass value so large hollow objects can be catered for (GG currently assumes all objects are solid) but you can set the parameter 'weight' modifier as another means to that end.

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Posted: 12th Mar 2018 22:21
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Quote: "Collision modes (for dynamic entities at least) are 1=Box (i.e. cube or rectangle), 2=Sphere, 3=Cylinder (axis of cylinder being Y so the punch bag is perfect)."


I was under the impression that collision modes were:

0 = box
1 = polygon
2 = sphere
3 = cylinder
11 = none

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Posted: 12th Mar 2018 22:34 Edited at: 12th Mar 2018 22:35
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All dynamic entities default to 'box' at present, I've changed it to specifically make 2 & 3 map to Sphere and Cylinder but 0 or 1 will default to 'box' if dynamic.

The 'special' ones appear to be 9 and 40 ( not sure what they mean though).

So yes 0 will work for 'box' as well.

1 is effectively ignored if not static.

Actually it all needs a bloody good dose of common sense applied.
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Posted: 12th Mar 2018 22:45
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I've started on a demo level for the new physics stuff, basically I want to try and incorporate an example usage for each new command.

For push/pull I've decided on a Huarong Pass puzzle (or three), here is a video of my first attempt:



Still not happy with the game mechanics as it is darn fiddly trying to push/pull accurately but it's getting there. Oh and even I can't figure out the solution, apparently the big block can be extricated, I'm buggered if I can work out how to do it!
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Posted: 13th Mar 2018 05:41
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Well that's going to be pain in the backside, I regularly use buildings and things that need to be poly collision to "store" scripts that effect other things so I don't have to add etxtra entities, going to have to rework a lot of Mt maps now.

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Posted: 13th Mar 2018 05:55
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I have some hands/punching "weapons" im converting over from FPSC. Might work perfectly with punching bags
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 13th Mar 2018 07:32
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@Belidos: I think you probably have the 'is immobile' set true which makes the model static, otherwise you would not be able to enter buildings that you make active.

It is all rather confusing as an entity can be 'active' but also 'immobile' and 'always active' from the settings.

For an entity to be dynamic from a physics standpoint (i.e. you can push it around)it needs to be active and not immobile and 'physics on'.
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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 13th Mar 2018 11:26
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@AmenMoses - Just download the march 2018 PP.

Fantastic work with the pickuppable script, and the behind the scenes physics work. just made a simple level and the puzzle and exploration options you have opened up here are mind boggling, this is really something Gameguru has needed for a very long time. Whats more, it is extremely fast too.

You work is truly outstanding. Thanks.
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Posted: 13th Mar 2018 14:05
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I do admire all the hard work that you have put into getting this much working considering
the state of the GG source code.

Please consider this constructive criticism.
The way you are implementing these physics features is incorrect.
Which is compounding the original problem of an incorrect implementation
of the Bullet Physics engine. Also in my opinion you are creating a lot of
spaghetti code in the scripts that is even confusing you never mind the average user.


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GraPhiX
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Posted: 13th Mar 2018 17:32
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I have made a door, I have made it to RL dimensions 80x36x1.75 inches (exterior door) it is 0,0 on y is this ok ? will use it as a template if it works ok, I have not made any livery for it yet just wanted you to test it first think I have glass sorted now (I hope)


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