Product Chat / For my next trick, or who says physics is broken?

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AmenMoses
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Posted: 24th Feb 2018 20:20
No it doesn't is the answer and I don't get any fps slowdown although that might be because the models are low poly, but I can show what I think you mean by 'having a fit':



The silver blade is mode 0, the bloodstained one I've re-imported the .x file and set to mode 1.

When I move the one with poly collision it goes crazy, but not when I only rotate it unless it comes close to another object, the box collision objects move without going crazy unless they are scaled in which case they go weird but to a lesser extent.

I tried several experiments with vsync on and off and the effect is the same.




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devlin
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Posted: 24th Feb 2018 20:27
@AmenMoses
i admire your work with game guru.
its truly great coding. what drives you in gg engine with your skill set,
we are really lucky to have a forum member like yourself.
hope you get the recognition it deserves. thanks for the time you spend here
i totally hooked with GG with the latest updates ect we can only hope coders like yourself
will change the engine to what we have all been waiting for. and i am sure the game creators
acknowledge your skill set here.
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 24th Feb 2018 21:04
Ok, so now I'm totally confused, according to the code all dynamic physics objects get a box collision shape regardless of collision mode, but I imported a ball and it definitely rolled (albeit badly) down hill! This makes no sense at all, grrrr.

I'm obviously missing something here, all I want to do is change my ball to have a Sphere as a collision shape!

I need some beer.
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Earthling45
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Posted: 24th Feb 2018 21:57 Edited at: 24th Feb 2018 22:07


This could be because i have a FX-6300 which is not the strongest cpu.
If the physics engine uses the cpu of course.

Yes, that is how i understood it too after reading a few threads on physics problems, maybe the balls need a few lines or a pattern so it is visible if they are rolling and not sliding.

But how wonderful it would be if we had a choice between some primitive physics shapes, sphere/cylinder/cone/convex hull..
I've tried 9 which is supposed to be convex hull but i get the same slowdown as with a polygon collision which leads me to think that 9 also is polygon collision.
Earthling45
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Posted: 24th Feb 2018 22:14
Quote: "Didn't make any difference, mind you when they are spinning through the air that fast it probably wouldn't do. "


Hopefully with the next update we can test with you.
I've used a barrel to see how close i could push it to the blade, it made quite a difference compared to the other blade with the larger and simple square collision shape.
AmenMoses
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Posted: 24th Feb 2018 22:20
Ahh, I see what you mean now, the fps dips because the engine is calculating collisions between the player and the object. But in your video the object is static so it's not due to 'physics' more due to raytracing probably, I did notice a lot of dodgy code in the player capsule area which I've been meaning to revisit when I'm done playing with saw blades.

I have an i7 system and I don't really see that, at least nothing so dramatic.

The strange behaviour in my video is due to object scaling btw, something wrong with my math in the pickuppables script. I'm busy converting it into a Lua module so I'll tackle the bug at the same time.
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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 25th Feb 2018 08:19
Great to see that the "slowdown" problem in GG is looking like it might get a fix, this has been in GG since as long as I can remember. Great work.
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 25th Feb 2018 13:41
Well I'm not promising I'll fix anything and my experiments are giving highly confusing results.

The code is rather confusing as the 'immobile' parameter appears to be called 'static' in the code and the static/active setting is 'is_dynamic' in the code. Anything set 'static' (or rather immobile) should get a simple box collision shape (according to the code) but when I test with active entities they also get a box shape so somewhere it must be setting the 'static' parameter, i.e. somewhere it must be doing if (!is_dynamic) static = 1; or similar. Logic dictates it must be there somewhere but I haven't found it yet!

Looking through the C++ code is giving me a major headache so I'm taking a break and completely rewriting the player control Lua script instead, I'm not going to change the functionality at all (well not intentionally ) but I'm going to improve it's performance as much as I can and tidy it up a bit so it is easier to understand.

Still can't replicate the fps slow down on my machine btw, turned off vsync and no matter what stock entities I put one the map I get a steady 120-140 FPS until I start putting in hills and forests and stuff, then it drops down to the 70 range (which is what the old BE level used to run at before the X11 changes).

I think it's down to the i7 (I think it's a skylake) just being really good at running legacy 32 bit code. (it probably doesn't hurt that my GPU isn't even stressed by GG either! )
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Earthling45
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Posted: 25th Feb 2018 22:10
A safe with an animated door.

Let me know if you want them as separated parts.

Mansion underway.

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AmenMoses
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Posted: 25th Feb 2018 23:47
Yep, that works.



I've totally hosed the player control script btw!

In my chequered past I worked on fighter/ground attack aircraft software and we had three input modes for pilot control, pushbutton entry, joystick style entry and the trigger/bomb release. Button entry was processed at 5Hz, joystick entry and HUD display was processed at 20Hz and trigger/bomb release was done via an interrupt. (the interrupt was generated by the software btw, the software determined the best time to release the weapons and generated an interrupt routine which simply checked if the trigger/release button were pressed, if so it unleashed the dogs of war on any poor unfortunate that happened to be targeted.)

So bearing this in mind I figured that I could take the same approach with the player controls for GG, i.e. there is no point in processing player inputs at full FPS when the average response time for a human being is around a quarter of a second.

The weird thing is it worked perfectly and I got back a shed load of FPS (an increase of around 10-20%) but for some daft reason which I cannot explain it causes the shadows to flicker on and off!

Oh and for some reason I haven't quite figured out yet the mouse wheel has stopped working.

Back to the drawing board methinks.

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Earthling45
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Posted: 26th Feb 2018 14:19
That is a huge gain.
granada
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Posted: 26th Feb 2018 14:24
It’s great watching you progress with this day by day

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AmenMoses
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Posted: 27th Feb 2018 10:10
Dropped the playercontrol stuff for a bit and went back to the collision detection:



New Lua command to detect collisions of a specified object ( in this case the thrown object ), the two numbers shown on screen are the objectId of the 'hit' object and the objectId of the thrown object ( just for testing purposes ).

A bit rough and ready at the moment ( more like a sledgehammer to crack a nut at present ) and needs refinement before I push it to the repository.

Currently all I'm doing with it in the video is using it to set the 'health' of both objects to zero, i.e. so it kills characters or causes exploding things to well explode. Refinement will be to detect the collision and work out the force of the impact and location of the hit to regulate the 'damage' applied, for example hitting a zombie on the leg with a brick shouldn't really kill it!
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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 28th Feb 2018 10:14
This is just such awesome work, thanks AmenMoses.

As you are the Physics Guru, is there anyway to make the player slide, for example on a steep hill pr sloping entity, like a slowly rotating platform for example, or slippery slopes, I know it currently doesnt work, just wondering if this will fit in with you re-doing the player physics. Also sounds for throwing, colliding and picking up the entities? JUst a thought.
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 28th Feb 2018 19:18
I'm not touching the player capsule physics! Not touching the character stuff either, just sticking to the inanimate stuff.
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 1st Mar 2018 17:57 Edited at: 1st Mar 2018 18:01
Update time:

In this one you can see the progress on the new collision commands, much neater now and collisions are always registering.

The new commands are:



In the video I try to demonstrate this by having multiple collisions (I think I managed to get the box colliding with 4 bricks at once).

Currently I am filtering out terrain collisions and only storing collisions between objects with Ids > 70000 (which is all the ones you add in the editor).

Next step is to add the x,y,z coordinates of the contact, this will be useful for example to use it to display a decal at that location or to locate a sound there.

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granada
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Posted: 1st Mar 2018 18:22
Very smooth movement all round ,nice job .

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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 1st Mar 2018 18:30
Superb work AmenMoses, I hope Lee see fit to add this to the Steam release, your work really lifts GG into a new realm. Fantastic.
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Posted: 1st Mar 2018 18:55 Edited at: 1st Mar 2018 18:55
Well all the new stuff, throw/push/pull plus proper weight calculations and collision detection is all still sat in my local repository, the plan was to get the base script released to the community to garner feedback (the standalone I created for that purpose was only tried out by a few people!). I need the feedback to determine which bits of this need to be configurable by the users and what supporting functions are missing to make it useful within a completed game.

It remains to be seen just what actually ends up your hands!
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Posted: 1st Mar 2018 20:30
Have you solved the huge slowdown that your physics scripts cause?
FYI:Mass of rigid bodies can only be from 1.0 to 100.0 in bullet physics.
The Bullet physics solver has this limitation.
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 1st Mar 2018 21:00
What huge slowdown? Since GG is defaulting dynamic entities to simple box collision shapes (really need to expand that to spheres and cylinders!) I'm not seeing any slow down.

The only time I see any slowdown is if I walk up really close to a static entity that has a mesh collision shape, for example a wall! I can only surmise that the slowdown has something to do with the player capsule processing. Maybe it's related to ray tracing?

As for the mass calcs, all I've done is replicate the faulty math GG already does and use that as the basis for calculating the force required to throw/push/pull. Seems to give reasonably good results unless the objects are very large (in which case I don't allow them to be picked up in the first place) or very small, there is a hard wired 'smallest-volume' limit in GG which if exceeded results in some really strange results so I've left it alone.





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Earthling45
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Posted: 1st Mar 2018 21:08
Having played with the pickupable stand alone, there was no slowdown while picking up, moving and stacking stuff.
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Posted: 1st Mar 2018 21:29 Edited at: 1st Mar 2018 21:33
I think these pictures speak a thousand words.

The noscript image is with literally no script, I renamed it so GG couldn't load it.

The withscript image is with the script attached to every dynamic entity on the map (basically everything bar the trees), and the player is carrying the ammo box.

Not only can't I see any FPS slowdown, I cant see much of an increase in the AI slider either (which measures Lua activity IIRC).
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granada
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Posted: 1st Mar 2018 21:39
Quote: "I think these pictures speak a thousand words. "

Indeed they do .

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AmenMoses
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Posted: 1st Mar 2018 21:54
@SiTD: Can you tell me in plain English (if possible) how to convert a btVector3 returned from getPositionWorldOnA() into GG coordinate values?

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Posted: 1st Mar 2018 22:47 Edited at: 1st Mar 2018 22:48
I thought that Earthling45's video above showed a huge FPS drop?

This will be correct if Lee scaled it correctly.
Where in the code are you trying to get this data from?
Because getPositionWorldOnA() will only give you data if
if you have a call back setup, and 2 rigid bodies contact
each other. Also the scale factor is beause all data passed to the
Bullet solvers must be scaled down and then scaled back up when you get
it back from them. Hope this is plain english.

Warning C++ Code not lua script code

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Posted: 1st Mar 2018 22:57
The video was of a simple static object using collision mode 1, no script involved.

So I just scale it back and it is relative to world origin, cool that's simple enough.

(How did you think I was detecting multiple collisions? Of course I have a call back set up! )
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2018 10:01 Edited at: 2nd Mar 2018 10:02
I think I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel:



Got the collision points working, next up is fine tuning, need to pass out the force of the collision itself to Lua so damage can be proportional.

Oh and I need to add in a sensible arrangement for terrain collision detection, then replace all the complicated ray tracing stuff in the script with the new commands and modularise the whole thing and ... Ok so maybe the light is an oncoming train after all!

Btw, does anybody know why Windows 10 keeps forgetting its own hot keys?
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2018 15:30
AmenMoses, Thank you.
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2018 15:56
That's the terrain bit sorted, this bullet engine malarkey is pretty simple once you get the hang of it.



I've limited the collision detection to 5 distinct contacts per object on object and the 5 most recent for object on terrain as that felt more than adequate for now.

Now on to the other bits, although I may get distracted again.
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2018 17:10
Anyone got any blood spurt decals?
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 2nd Mar 2018 23:57
Told you I'd get distracted:



Revisiting hinges.
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granada
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 00:11
That would be perfect for GraPhiX park swing ,
Make a good false wall to a hidden room .

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AmenMoses
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 00:21
Lol, the swing is exactly why I got distracted.
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 09:41
Quote: "Lol, the swing is exactly why I got distracted. "


sorry about that this does indeed look exactly what I need brilliant
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 10:29 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2018 10:30
Got bored with hinges so:



The tremendously huge Lua script to achieve this:


Sorry, I can't make it any simpler than that.
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 12:24
And you can chain them together!



Now I have added the 'double' versions of both hinges and joints I should be able to get doors working properly, i.e. not colliding with the door frames.

I'll try to knock up a better demo with an example or two of every new command from this set.

Currently I've only added creation of physical constraints, may need to be able to remove them as well eventually I suppose. Also I'm not quite sure what happens if you create all these constraints in one level and then change to a new level, presumable a new level creates a whole new dynamic world and the old one is cleaned up, will have to put the investigation of that on my todo list (bloody big list now! ).
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 13:10 Edited at: 3rd Mar 2018 13:17
@AmenMoses

will this script only work with the latest update?

function hinge_top_init(e)
local Ent = g_Entity[ e ]

CreateSingleJoint( Ent.obj, 0, 42, 0 )
end


i have stuff that is hanging on a crane, would be awesome if they can swivel n little bit while hanging
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Pirate Myke
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 13:31
Great stuff. Well done.
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 13:43
My jaw dropped again, this is incredible, it really brings GG to life.
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 14:04
None of these commands are in the latest build - yet. They are all in my own local repository whilst I fully test them all and produce the new Lua module that makes them dead simple to use.

For example to put a hinge along the top of an entity dead centre along the entities Z axis you would use:

P.AddEntitySingleHinge( e, 'TopCentreL' )

('L' in this case is 'length' which I've arbitrarily decided is the Z axis when you first put down the entity on the map, X is width and Y is height but you don't need to worry about any of that to use the commands)

The library functions do all the heavy lifting by working out what the dimensions of the entity are and creating vectors and stuff to pass into the raw Lua command (which passes 10 values in to the engine!), the engine code I've added turns that into Bullet engine speak and applies the physics constraints.

The easy part is adding the engine code, the hard part is trying to make the bit you get to use as simple as possible, and hopefully self explanatory as far as names of functions and parameters etc are concerned.

People who want to experiment with the raw Lua commands otoh will find that simple mistake will produce really wild results, I passed in the wrong object identifier to the engine and all my entities basically just flew off the map doing crazy pirouettes! So my advice when this is delivered is to use the physics library (physlib.lua) commands (combined with the utillib and, if you are really adventurous the, quatlib) rather than trying to use the raw Lua commands themselves, it will save a lot of grief.

I will put together an fpm containing examples of use for all the new commands so hopefully it will be easy for you guys/gals to incorporate basic physics stuff into your games.
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granada
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Posted: 3rd Mar 2018 15:30
Quote: "I will put together an fpm containing examples of use for all the new commands so hopefully it will be easy for you guys/gals to incorporate basic physics stuff into your games. "


Sounds perfect ,thanks for putting your time into this it will help a lot of people I’m sure .

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AmenMoses
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Posted: 4th Mar 2018 00:16
Something weird going on with the textures in this one but the plank is from the 'Classics' folder I suppose. Interestingly these planks don't 'show up' when using the raycasting commands so I can't actually pick them up or push/pull them. Not sure why that should be but they still react to other physics object, i.e. they generate collisions and will react to explosions etc.

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Posted: 4th Mar 2018 07:16
that looks cool
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Tarkus1971
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Posted: 4th Mar 2018 09:55
This is truly AAA work AmenMoses. Brings GG into a new realm, I hope Lee will see fit to adding this much needed feature to GG in the Steam version when all your hard work is done.

Will you be releasing a new .exe soon to test this stuff out. ?
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Posted: 4th Mar 2018 11:59
Yes I do plan another standalone once I stopped fiddling with it. There are a huge amount of new toys here in addition to the player physics interaction stuff and it will take people a while to learn how to integrate them within a game environment, even I'm doing a lot of head scratching trying to work out how to best show the new features off in a demo level using stock models.

For the player physics stuff (pickuppables mark II) I have the controls as:

Left Mouse Button (LMB) click to pick up - click again to drop.
Right Mouse Button (RMB) hold to rotate picked up item using mouse left/right for rotate in 'Y' up/down for rotate in 'X' (actually yaw & pitch).
Modifier keys:
Hold E and press LMB to 'push' an object when not carrying it otr to 'throw' when carrying.
Hold R and LMB to 'pull' an object.
Hold Space Bar down when carrying in conjunction with WASD to 'creep' around for fine positioning.
Pressing any 'weapon' select key (1-9) will drop whatever is being carried.

Player speed is adjusted automatically depending on how much is being carried, 'jump' is disabled when carrying, currently 'sprint' is not disabled but we'll see whether people think that should be added when more people have played with it.

Toying with using the mouse wheel to change the distance the object is being carried at.

Lee mentioned that FPSC used a different scheme, i.e. LMB to pick up and RMB to drop, then second LMB to throw. I could offer this as an alternative if people want, maybe use R key modifier to rotate the entity and E+LMB to push, E+RMB to pull, would that be something you guys want?

Alternatively I could put a configuration command in the physics module which could be called to specify the controls to use.

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AmenMoses
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Posted: 4th Mar 2018 12:38
Looks like NPC collisions need a bit of work, I assume from this that 'limbs' and 'head' don't have separate collision shapes assigned to them.



Pity really because it would look really cool otherwise.
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devlin
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Posted: 4th Mar 2018 13:20
Amazing work.
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Stab in the Dark software
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Posted: 4th Mar 2018 14:59
Quote: "Looks like NPC collisions need a bit of work, I assume from this that 'limbs' and 'head' don't have separate collision shapes assigned to them."

The AI Character controller was not coded correctly.
The coffee is lovely dark and deep,and I have code to write before I sleep.
AmenMoses
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Posted: 4th Mar 2018 15:37
In my 40 years of software experience I've yet to see anything that is!
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