Product Chat / Lee...The Real problem with AI is they can see & shoot through walls

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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 17:55 Edited at: 25th Dec 2017 18:19
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Ok this is AI using the default soldier lua.
Now they can already see you ( behind walls ) so they really don't have to move or actually need to hunt you down .. Just shoot you
There is slight walking towards you but nothing amazing .. whilst they can do this its obvious they wont move about and continue to get stuck in assets as they only need to point in your direction.



Now I'm Using Zombiewalk3.lua ..
Look at the difference .. Because they cannot just shoot you so they have to hunt you down and beat you up.
With this in mind the issue above seems clear they don't move because they don't have to .. sort that out and the AI would be amazing Or at least They need to have a clear view to shoot ... it would make so much difference

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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 18:36
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Agree GG still not totally support top-down view you also can shoot enemies behind walls, but if it will fix we can create very nice games
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 18:55
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So why not simply add a ray casting check to verify that they have line of sight to targeting part of the scripts?

When I get a chance I'll take a look myself but it might not be for a couple of days.
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smallg
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 19:42
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Quote: "So why not simply add a ray casting check to verify that they have line of sight to targeting part of the scripts?"

indeed, bit better now - i'm sure you would do a better job of it but it works
replace the script in your scriptbank/ai folder (back up the original if you want but any update or file verify will replace it to default anyway).


p.s. this is only an issue with third person camera because they can "see" the camera, Lee could fix this easy by simply replacing the camera location with the actual player location in the core function.
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Teabone
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 19:52
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Does this still happen if the walls are entities instead of EBE pieces?
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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 20:08
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Quote: "p.s. this is only an issue with third person camera because they can "see" the camera, Lee could fix this easy by simply replacing the camera location with the actual player location in the core function."

You say that but I tried your script it in 1st person as well and thought there was an improvement
Once they see you theres no getting away
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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 20:12
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Quote: "You say that but I tried your script it in 1st person as well and thought there was an improvement
Once they see you theres no getting away "

I take back what I said ...1st person seems to be a vast improvement !!
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 20:15
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As if I have anything better to do on xmas day.

Try these and let me know if it improves any.

Trying to get my head around how Lee has designed these 'modules' is not easy btw.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 20:19
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AmenMoses and Smallg

Its like a special edition with 2 Jedi working on a mission
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 20:21
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Aha, just spotted what might be the problem with 3rd person, g_PlayerPosX .. etc do not actually represent the player object. Luckily Lee has separate calls for getting the position of the player object so let me have another stab using those. Bit like a newt at present so this may take a while.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 20:28
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Quote: "Try these and let me know if it improves any."

To be honest there wasn't to much difference with these
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 20:40
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Try these, I've tried to detect third person and use the 'player object' coordinates instead.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 21:25 Edited at: 25th Dec 2017 21:26
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Its very much better but still not as fluid or stable as the " ai_zombiewalk3.lua script " ( they still stick or ignore you ) however they now only seem to shoot when they see you which is good ... Lee did say he had modified the zombie script so I'm wondering if the main "module_combatmelee.lua" is the only one hes toyed with ?

Please don't mess up your Xmas over this .... it can wait
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 21:44
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Lol, this is the sad old gits club isn't it? I've finished making my grandsons Lego Millennium Falcon (only 159 pages in the construction manual) and I have only consumed half a bottle of red wine and have loads of Port left and there's bugger all on the telly so ...

I'll take a look at the melee script to see what he does different.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 22:05 Edited at: 25th Dec 2017 22:09
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Quote: "I'll take a look at the melee script to see what he does different"

If I didn't know better ( and I don't ) its as if Smallg gave the melee or ai_zombiewalk3.lua script a gun ...
It works identical to the second video but shoots as well ?
It shoots sporadically granted but only when they see you ... Or not and you get beat up instead
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 22:09
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Ok so my initial perusal of the difference in the scripts is that soldier.lua ends up calling module_combatcore.fireonspot, in which is a call to module_combatcore.donotmove which would appear to stall the ai for at least a frame. This is not present in the melee case. I imagine that even if the ai can't shoot it should still move unless in cover.

I also note that throughout these 'modules' Lee uses g_PlayerPos variables, each case of this should check for third person and use the GetPlrObjectPosition functions instead.

I'm not surprised they don't work as well in third person iow!


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synchromesh
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 22:14
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Quote: "Ok so my initial perusal of the difference in the scripts is that soldier.lua ends up calling module_combatcore.fireonspot, in which is a call to module_combatcore.donotmove which would appear to stall the ai for at least a frame. This is not present in the melee case. I imagine that even if the ai can't shoot it should still move unless in cover.

I also note that throughout these 'modules' Lee uses g_PlayerPos variables, each case of this should check for third person and use the GetPlrObjectPosition functions instead."


And your on the wine ... I need wine to even spell half of that let alone understand it !!
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granada
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 22:31 Edited at: 25th Dec 2017 22:33
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Quote: "Lol, this is the sad old gits club isn't it"


Yep,Ime sitting watching rubbish tv,and playing c o d. ww2.great game by the way,could use some of that ai.

Edit. And a few beers
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 22:36
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Quote: "Ok so my initial perusal of the difference in the scripts is that soldier.lua ends up calling module_combatcore.fireonspot, in which is a call to module_combatcore.donotmove which would appear to stall the ai for at least a frame. This is not present in the melee case. I imagine that even if the ai can't shoot it should still move unless in cover.

I also note that throughout these 'modules' Lee uses g_PlayerPos variables, each case of this should check for third person and use the GetPlrObjectPosition functions instead.

I'm not surprised they don't work as well in third person iow!"


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smallg
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 22:40
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when i say it's only an issue with third person i meant because in first person mode the AI can't shoot through walls.

and no it's the normal ai script, i just added ray casting to anywhere it wants to "see" the player, and i also notice the issue with them getting stuck in "donotmove" mode so i added some code to swap their state back.
the rest is all Lee's code so the AI work as they are intended - it would probably just need some extra rotation in there to make them keep track of the player better as they now get a lot closer compared to before because they don't stop as frequently and can end up facing the wrong way in my tests.

interestingly i used the g_PlayerPosX etc and it seems to work correctly, i wonder if it's just because the raycast is still hitting the wall on the way to the camera or not (i would assume not as the 'playervisible' command likely only raycasts anyway).
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 23:03
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Quote: "when i say it's only an issue with third person i meant because in first person mode the AI can't shoot through walls."


still seems they are unable to follow you around corners for the most part in first person unless this is in the public preview and things have changed. performance is even worse when not placed on terrain or flat ground on terrain.

will these new ai modules improve fps combat ai?
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Posted: 25th Dec 2017 23:04
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Hmm, I changed the scripts to use the player object position when in third person and then tested it in first person. Some really weird behaviour ensued so I'll not bother posting the amended scripts.

I had ai shooting at me whilst facing the other way and not shooting at me through fences. I'll take a closer look when sober!
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Posted: 26th Dec 2017 00:34
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Quote: "still seems they are unable to follow you around corners for the most part in first person "

With Zombies I'm not getting that ?
They seem to be pretty good In my maze and traverse it well..
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 08:56
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Hmm, it appears that g_PlayerPos values do match the player object ones now (when did Lee fix that?) so that was a red herring, and also makes me wonder why we even need the player object functions.


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cybernescence
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 12:46
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There are several duplicate lua functions after the gameplayer control was opened up with lua.

I suspect Lee just blasted through his engine code and made new functions for everything he needed to port to lua and this has resulted in different methods that do the same thing.

Cheers.
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 13:30
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I've just got through re-writing the largest of the modules trying to figure out what it all does and came across several places where the global variables are used alongside the new functions, maybe Lee was trying to eradicate the globals but sort of stopped short of doing so.

So far I've managed to improve the performance somewhat without seemingly breaking anything, once I get rid of this nasty flu bug I'm suffering from I'll have a bash at making sense of it all.
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 15:57
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Is that a brain dump?
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granada
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 16:10
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Wow ,that’s a lot of files and big and pieces.

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smallg
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 16:24
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lol @cybernescence, you may have accidentally uploaded a couple files there
seems you uploaded a shortcut?
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 17:11
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Ye not sure how the hell you did it though
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 17:14
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What the deuce?
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 17:14
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maybe this thread must be closed and lock.
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 17:17
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synchromesh can you delete cybernescence's post , i think maybe there are files that he do not want everybody to see.
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 17:20
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ok its done. good.
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 17:21
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I deleted the post as there were just to many to manually delete ..
Sorry your gonna have to post again ( preferably without your HDD )
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 17:35
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Quote: " ( preferably without your HDD )"


LOL
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 17:52
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No idea what happened there. Was on phone. Hope it doesn't happen again

Here goes nothing ....
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 18:27
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Well here is my re-write so far, not tried to change the logic in any major way just made it more efficient.

The only level I have to test it with is the now much reduced Big (small?) Escape which seems to work just as well as it did. If you want to try these out with something a little more challenging the normal proviso ... backup Lee's originals first! And if anyone does let me know if anything appears broken.


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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 18:42
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Hmm, wouldn't let me edit the last post.

Found the MMS level hiding in the legacy folder, works really well. Solid 60 FPS with AI slider hardly registering. Bit tougher to play than I remember it though.
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 19:12
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Quote: "Hmm, wouldn't let me edit the last post."


Having the same problem,I will try this when I fire up my comp.thank for working on it.

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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 19:27
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I've tried them with this level, i can or must get quite close to them before they react.

The view cone and range are both at zero, i don't know if it is better to set a value.
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 19:30
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One thing I've noted whilst going through the modules is a distinct lack of randomness in AI decision making, I think a judicious sprinkling of randomness in timer settings and a few other places might make a lot of difference to the naturalness of their behaviour. When I'm feeling better I will take a stab at that first.

I also found a bug related to the punching through walls check that Lee (I presume) put in, adding the 'fixed' version here.
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 19:34
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@Earthling45, yes I think you need to set those to appropriate values to get any response from them. I haven't changed Lee's code in that respect (except maybe to break it, I do have Flu after all! ).

I've tested it with the wander down to the river level (or water it's called) and it seemed ok.
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 20:10
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Quote: "The view cone and range are both at zero"


That is exactly why you have to get right up face to face with them, you need to increase those numbers to get longer range and better angle of view.

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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 20:28
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There should be some clarity about this because as i understood it from smallg, there is a default value for the AI if left at 0.
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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 21:08
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Quote: "There should be some clarity about this because as i understood it from smallg, there is a default value for the AI if left at 0."


There might be, i've never heard that though, learn something new every day.

However, if it is the case then it doesn't work (maybe stopped working during the last AI update) because I've found since the last AI update ive had to increase range and angle to get AI to work.

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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 21:27 Edited at: 28th Dec 2017 22:09
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Yes, i remember that too.
After the overhaul of the AI i've been testing them quite thoroughly, have them following a path through gates, made an EBE structure with walls stairs and gates through which they had to go in order to get me and it worked perfectly.
They even found me when i had gone under the structure between walls to hide.
Distance was no problem, at a certain distance they would stop shooting but keep chasing and going in my direction as long as i was within the viewrange.

It seems to be a broken AI again now.



@AmenMozes, this is with the Original scripts from Lee

Edit: they did not shoot through walls either when i tested the AI.

Another edit: it really seems that the viewrange does not matter, when the player is at a certain distance from the AI, it starts following its path.
It also seems that it is not tracking the movement of the player but goes in the direction of the spot where the player stood.

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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 21:27
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Quote: "There should be some clarity about this because as i understood it from smallg, there is a default value for the AI if left at 0."


I don’t think there will be much clarity on anything until the update is finalised .

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Posted: 28th Dec 2017 21:33
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I've tried it in GG which i should have done when trying the script from AmenMozes, the default is ok but it is a short distance and 180 view cone.
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Posted: 12th Jan 2018 19:46 Edited at: 12th Jan 2018 19:49
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Sorry. I haven't had time to read all the posts on this thread. I really just wanted to say I recently loaded GameGuru for the first time for several months to see if it was any further along. I know the main focus has been the visuals in recent months and I can see some improvement there. However, with default AI scripts the player definitely can get shot through EBE walls with FPS camera. And, the enemy soldiers still seem as stupid as ever (the ability to walk above ground level notwithstanding). I don't want to be critical. I just wish AI was given some attention because I think it is currently the main thing holding GameGuru back (and has been for some time).
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