Product Chat / GameGuru PUBLIC PREVIEW Released!

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Belidos
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Posted: 8th Dec 2017 16:30 Edited at: 8th Dec 2017 16:33
Quote: "This is 100% correct"


Just to clarify (in case people wonder what the conversation is all about after that), that quote's not what i originally wrote, i corrected it after you corrected me so that i wouldn't be spreading incorrect information

Quote: "Currently you must decide if you want PBR or non PBR terrain you cant mix it , and i agree it would be great if we had some kind of fpe in the terrain folder to set what shaders to use , but its still "beta" so there WILL be made changes to how everything work and are defined."


Yeah, exactly as i thought, it would be great if there was some sort of fpe settings system in place for terrain so we could choose, but that wouldn't make any difference with the custom terrain system as that wouldn't have it's own folders for fpe's to go in, maybe some sort of tick box when you upload the texture to toggle it between pbr and non-pbr would work, but even then you would still be stuck with all pbr or no pbr on a map because the custom system creates an atlas texture for all of the textures, and i doubt it would be easy coding to have pbr and non-pbr on he same texture sheet.

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SHAHIN3D
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Posted: 9th Dec 2017 07:46
Really ridiculous !!!
GG has mocked us !!!
How many years should I wait?
I think I should go to the police and complain of gg !!!
Really ridiculous !!!
Why not make a menu and icon for settings !!!
The software must have: the menu and the settings icon ...
The software needs to: save stanalone menu and icon ...
The software should not: have a problem.
The software should: Have a good speed.
The software should: have menu for settings and change texture
The software must have: Setup menu and script change.
And many other things ...
How long should we wait ???
One Month ?
One year ?
10 years ?
100 years?
Maybe in heaven !!!
Why are not Mr. Lee and the gg team respecting us !!!
amir
SHAHIN3D
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Posted: 9th Dec 2017 07:52 Edited at: 9th Dec 2017 07:53
amir
smallg
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Posted: 9th Dec 2017 09:31
Quote: "I think I should go to the police and complain of gg !!!"

Lol.

Why would anyone expect the release to be perfect and bug free? Have any of the previews been so so far? Nope.
It'll get there, this was a big update that changed the core engine in a big way, there's a lot to test and it takes time to fix everything, you're also free to use any of the many older versions available on the beta tab while you wait (this is way better support than most other programs on steam BTW).

Thanks for all your hard work Lee and Preben (and anyone else involved)
lua guide for GG
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GraPhiX
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Posted: 9th Dec 2017 09:58
Take a chill pill shaln3d some of us have been around a lot longer than 3 months as smallg already stated this was a major overhaul and there will be countless issues screaming at your computer will not make fixes any quicker
Welcome to the real world!
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andy millard
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Posted: 9th Dec 2017 10:22
A member for 3 months according to their profile, who probably paid less than £20 for basic GameGuru has from their comments not read anything about GameGuru before purchasing it. Yes GameGuru should at some stage have all desired functions, but it is a game making programme under development and therefore should not be expected to be complete. Some of us are backers and put forward more than the basic cost of GameGuru. This was a gamble that as a backer we were willing to take. By taking this gamble GameGuru is IN PRODUCTION (not finished), it will be one day but not tomorrow. Lee is doing an excellent job as lead coder and others are helping with THEIR TIME and knowledge for FREE. I take my hat off to these people as I possess none of the required skills to help. The community for the main part are understanding and sometimes impatient. But to come on the forum and rant and rave is easy, to be constructive to take GameGuru to its final goal (completed), requires knowledge, time and understanding. Do not forget Lee is also running TGC on the side. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you all.
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granada
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Posted: 9th Dec 2017 11:16
I have been around a while and you learn you never get everything you want .

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lotgd
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Posted: 9th Dec 2017 11:21
@SHAHIN3D do not worry, if you think about it, for a software with a free license on distribution, in full development is good software. They are working hard to make it functional, and Lee and his team will not let you down. There is only to wait!

Do they have to make their beta public, if not, how do they find the defects to fix them?

Continue to use the version that best suits you, I for example still use the 1.14.
As soon as a stable version comes out, update it.

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Earthling45
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Posted: 9th Dec 2017 13:47 Edited at: 9th Dec 2017 14:58
Har har, i found the treasure

The flashlight is definitelly better, the terrain is lit by it but sadly the treasure box remains quite dark.

This is with forceloadshaders=1
pbroverride=0



Edit: now with the default setting, pbroverride=1 and forceloadgameshaders=0



Pirate Myke
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Posted: 9th Dec 2017 14:39 Edited at: 9th Dec 2017 14:43
Explorer ship with illumination.
Getting to where I want it.







CyberHell Level is coming along also.






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Preben
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Posted: 9th Dec 2017 16:41 Edited at: 9th Dec 2017 18:25
Earthling45: There is still a problem with the flashlight , you need to set tab tab "Graphics options" -> lightrays > 0 , just set it to 1 , then you also get the flashlight on the terrain and other objects , i hope Lee will fix this in the next public review.

Pirate Myke: Those shots get better and better cant wait to try your game
best regards Preben Eriksen,
Earthling45
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Posted: 9th Dec 2017 17:28
Ah yes, seen it

cybernescence
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Posted: 10th Dec 2017 01:49
Query for Lee

Pre-compiling the shader files has made a big impact on editor start-up time and shaved time off game load.

Would pre-compiling all lua files have a similar impact?

Cheers.
Zigi
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Posted: 10th Dec 2017 11:45
I don't know what is going on I'm the one who was complaining since day 1 about the low performance but this time with the DX11 preview I'm getting great results. I get stable 30-40 FPS everything set to highest including the shadow detail and the visuals are looking fantastic. It is surprise me others with better configs getting only 8 FPS What seems to slow me down this time is the AI. If I have any NPC in the scene I'm getting only 14-20 FPS, but as soon I eliminate them the FPS counter jump to 30+

I'm afraid performance is always going to be an issue with GameGuru, I mean all TGC products in the past have been slow and had compatibility problems with certain systems compared to other alternatives. I don't think GG is going to be exception. But since FPSC:Reloaded have been rebranded to GameGuru this is the very first time I'm looking optimistic in to the future and I think GG is going in to the right direction but it won't be a smooth ride. I have the feeling it is going to be years until we get a finished product that is going to deliver what promised originally with FPSC:Reloaded, my only doubt this time is that how relevant DirectX and Windows is going to be at the time we can consider GG a finished product.

In the same amount of time GG is in development, from displaying a spinning 3D cube WebGL get to the level when we are able to deliver great 3D visuals and develop 3D games to be played inside our web browser and run it on any platform even gaming consoles beginning to support web applications and most game engines also beginning to add WebGL support including Unreal, Unity and Unigine.
By the time GG is truly finished, getting stuck with DirectX and Windows might going to be a very unfortunate scenario and a reason for TGC start from scratch again.
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Earthling45
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Posted: 10th Dec 2017 15:09
Made another video with pbr assets.



For a simple and empty map the loadingtime is quite long in the editor, tonight i'm going to make a stand alone file and see how long it takes to load this level.

As can be seen in the video, the reflection of the terrain does not change or only a little bit when changing lighting.

Preben
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Posted: 10th Dec 2017 17:43
Earthling45: Currently surface colors ( that are not normally part of PBR ) do not react on the environment reflections.
best regards Preben Eriksen,
Earthling45
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Posted: 10th Dec 2017 18:36
Yes, i thought it would be a known issue, better report to much than to little.
Earthling45
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Posted: 10th Dec 2017 19:22
When painting terrain, changing a texture creates a mix of the previous and chosen texture.
The previous texture is not unloaded.



Belidos
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Posted: 10th Dec 2017 19:28 Edited at: 10th Dec 2017 19:31
Not entirely sure what the issue with terrain is, I can't see anything wrong in the video, it looks like it's doing exactly what it's supposed to.

Forget that, I see what you mean now, it's the last one, you changed slot 0 and it didn't change, I was focusing on the painting you were doing earlier on, not sure why that was included in the video.

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Earthling45
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Posted: 10th Dec 2017 19:33
See the texture which i choose Belidos, i do get cobblestone but with the grass color or sand color due to the mixing.
If normal, it should be the cobblestone only as it is.

Solar
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Posted: 10th Dec 2017 22:47
Okay, I am very exited now!

I did a comparison between the DX9 and DX11 versions of one of my levels of my work in progress game "Resist-Revolution".

And wow! The DX11 graphics is way more crisp, and I get a bit of fps boost!

This DX11 upgrade is awesome!

Attached are the two screenshots for comparison. The first one is DX9 and the second is DX11.

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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 11th Dec 2017 00:36
Quote: "I don't know what is going on I'm the one who was complaining since day 1 about the low performance"


You were one of many, lol, including myself. I just bought better hardware than I had!

Quote: "I have the feeling it is going to be years until we get a finished product that is going to deliver what promised originally with FPSC:Reloaded, my only doubt this time is that how relevant DirectX and Windows is going to be at the time we can consider GG a finished product. "


I agree with the time frame. When Reloaded started. I estimated that it would be at least 5 years before we saw anything great. This was before the decision to rewrite in C++ (I was naive at the time, I thought it already was. I didn't realize the "start from scratch" vote that we made at the beginning even had anything to do with Dark Basic Pro). I also didn't realize a DX11 rewrite would take as long as it has. Neither did Lee, apparently. That's all good with me, but it all adds to the timeline, at least a year, perhaps more. I don't think this product will EVER be finished, as no decent piece of software should be. It must evolve along with the technology. If it doesn't, it will die. 64-bit, although Lee has stated he won't do, would be the next 6 to 9 month improvement. If it doesn't happen, this product will certainly die. How many people still have 32 bit systems? I have several, but don't use them, except for some specialized/dedicated applications with hardware that requires nothing more. For newer games/VR, not at all. They are already dinosaurs. Windows, as an OS, has a pretty solid backing. It's not going anywhere anytime soon. DirectX is another issue altogether. A couple years ago, MS was considering abandoning it (based on some articles I read). That proved to be wrong, at least as far as I know. Opening up GG to other platforms would be huge, even though it can already be done at a basic level with a separate program. That would likely be another year wait at least. Personally, I don't care how long it takes. I do understand other people's frustration, though. While I wait for an upgrade here, though, I just find other things to do.
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Belidos
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Posted: 11th Dec 2017 07:39
Quote: "How many people still have 32 bit systems?"


You would be surprised, Microsoft announced (in response to being asked why there is still a 32bit version) a little while ago, that over 70 million machines still used 32 bit versions of windows.

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OldFlak
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Posted: 11th Dec 2017 08:11
Quote: "over 70 million machines still used 32 bit versions of windows"


In government offices perhaps? What about gamers?

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synchromesh
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Posted: 11th Dec 2017 12:26
Quote: "In government offices perhaps? What about gamers?"

pretty sure most of them sit there playing games ...
Because ours don't seem to do naff all else
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MXS
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Posted: 11th Dec 2017 13:39
from DBO to C++
from Direct X 9 to Direct X 11
Now some of you want to go from 32 bit to 64 bit I don't know how much of this rewrite crap I can take.
Next thing you all will want is to go from Direct X to OpenGL. ( which is faster and better for the most part)
I all I want is better gameplay mechanics for the 3rd person. But whatever!
As for this update, why is the draw calls count so high on a blank terrain level?
the terrain itself alone uses 66 draw calls.
As for the performance, it is the same as it was in Direct X 9, and the graphics well without the PBR it's nothing to go crazy about. But the PBR is ok.
Also, Direct X 9 can handle up to 6,000 draw calls. Direct X 11 can handle around 30,000 draw calls before fps drops under 60. So what is going on with game guru engine? This engine dips at 300 to 400 draw calls. For a simple level design, This could work staying under less amount of draw calls. But anything like the big escape level.... well... hmmm.... I don't think so.
more than what meets the eye.Welcome to SciFi Summer

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Belidos
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Posted: 11th Dec 2017 13:43
Quote: "Next thing you all will want is to go from Direct X to OpenGL. ( which is faster and better for the most part) "


Only on bare bones OS's like Linux, on Windows it's not so good.

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MXS
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Posted: 11th Dec 2017 14:31
@Belidos true OpenGL may run better on other OS's but it still faster compares to DirectX even on Windows.
according to this https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/133824-valve-opengl-is-faster-than-directx-even-on-windows
plus you can run it on cross platforms.
more than what meets the eye.Welcome to SciFi Summer

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maiacoimbra69
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Posted: 11th Dec 2017 15:11
finally i could see in the awesome screenshot that Solar show us that the GG engine improve 500% in graphics , but nevertheless the game made by Solar was already beautiful n my opinion

Now what about the AI , is there ok ? or the running zombie girl still runs in the same place ,
and the long time loading of the levels already gone ?
and another question where can i get the test releases of the GG for me to see in my levels

Thanks guys
maiacoimbra69
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Posted: 11th Dec 2017 15:21 Edited at: 11th Dec 2017 15:24
I kow this may not be important but i have tryout other game engine ,and has problems , a lot of them also to be honest GameGuru is perfect compared to the problems of another game engine that i bought recently

To be perfect the Game Guru engine only need 3 important things and a non important 4 stuff

- A tool to make Roads , because we can not make a 90 degree or snake type road with a continuous 2 stripe custom pattern
- Weather effects tool with time of the day , maybe time zonas.
- And a flow graph type thing to make interactions with assets in the game like some engines have for none programers like me and other folks

- Grouping Asset , like make a group of trees and populate them in the level

with this and the new graphics engine i think that may be the all world would use GG
well that is my opinion , but i am just a user

P.S. I am still thinking in the quality of the game made by Solar , man that is quite good
Solar
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Posted: 11th Dec 2017 15:52 Edited at: 11th Dec 2017 15:59
@ maiacoimbra69

Thank you very much for the great compliments.

I agree with you that GameGuru is in some sense better than other engines out there. If I recall correctly, the very good RV4 engine that the ARMA games use, has its fair share of fps problems also. The RV4 engine is also a 32-bit engine (also available in 64-bit version), and have been in production/updated for almost 20 years now.

So it's not only GG that has it's growing pains, but a lot of other engines also has it's problems.

I think that GG is definitively on the right path, and is already on the same level (or even better) than some other "big-name" engines out there.

Edit to add: Regarding the AI, it is now super awesome! The zombies doesn't freeze up anymore, and comes at the player like mad!
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maiacoimbra69
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Posted: 11th Dec 2017 17:56
nice , i have to try it also
smallg
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Posted: 11th Dec 2017 23:27
to me the gun looks less jagged in dx11 screenshot but much less defined - it's very flat (i think this is because it's now pure black and no longer has any shadow or glow), i prefer it in the dx9 screenshot on balance though.
everything else looks the same (which is what i personally expected from the dx11 update).

lua guide for GG
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=398177770
windows 10
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Teabone
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Posted: 12th Dec 2017 21:31
Quote: "- Weather effects tool with time of the day , maybe time zonas. "


Can already do this via lua however changing the sykbox im not sure is possible yet?
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Earthling45
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Posted: 12th Dec 2017 21:53
I've made a new post in the 'memory problem' thread but i also want to post this benchmark here so it isn't missed.

It shows the huge improvement in loadingtime between the previous version and the Current DX11 public preview.

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Earthling45
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Posted: 13th Dec 2017 08:28
While testing i noticed that the orbs textures are not carried over when creating a stand alone file.

SHAHIN3D
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Posted: 13th Dec 2017 10:56 Edited at: 13th Dec 2017 11:01
Problem in
muzzleflash

When the gun fires upwards,
muzzleflash is good and displayed.
But ... !!!
When the gun fires down and the ground,
muzzleflash is not good and can not be seen.
amir

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Bolt Action Gaming
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Posted: 13th Dec 2017 16:54
I wanted to mention that load times are improved but I'm still running into a massive delay on the 'creating ai obstacles' phase of loading a level.
LeeBamber
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Posted: 13th Dec 2017 19:47
Thanks everyone for an amazing amount of feedback on the Public Preview so far. I have already actioned some of it, but have spent most time on looking at video memory and its impact on frame rates. I have also (thanks to the new shiny DirectX11 engine) been able to get NVIDIA NSIGHT graphics profiler working 100% with GameGuru, which means I can step through pretty much every state change in an entire scene in perfect detail. Had to order a GTX 650 though so I can shader debug, the new level of profiling detail will really help me squeeze even more speed from the new engine. As an example, when you drop five walls next to each other in a scene, a wall is rendered 45 times per cycle (one for the scene and eight for the various shadow cascade levels). By adding some hardware batching, I can reduce this to just 9 calls, and with some real-time adjustment of the cascade renders, even fewer. I have also seen a large amount of API CPU work which would spell a performance hit, so plenty targets for improvement in the weeks to come.

Given the feedback from the public preview, I am not eager to rush out a final version for this update and will be working to remedy the core visual, performance and stability issues with this new batch of tests before considering a final release of the update. I think most of us would agree it's worth the extra time to get it right.
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granada
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Posted: 13th Dec 2017 19:59
Quote: "I think most of us would agree it's worth the extra time to get it right."


I think we all agree,we have come to far to cut corners now .

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Teabone
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Posted: 13th Dec 2017 22:39
Quote: "Given the feedback from the public preview, I am not eager to rush out a final version for this update and will be working to remedy the core visual, performance and stability issues with this new batch of tests before considering a final release of the update. I think most of us would agree it's worth the extra time to get it right."


Sounds perfectly fine to me.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 13th Dec 2017 23:23
Quote: "most of us would agree it's worth the extra time to get it right."

Works for me
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MK83
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Posted: 14th Dec 2017 02:34
Quote: "Quote: "most of us would agree it's worth the extra time to get it right."

Works for me "
Ditto
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SHAHIN3D
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Posted: 14th Dec 2017 11:54
Problem :
When: pbr is on
All the beautiful effects in the stage (Scifi Drones) are gone.
And reflection of sunlight is observed in the inner environment.
amir

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SHAHIN3D
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Joined: 8th Sep 2017
Playing:
Posted: 14th Dec 2017 12:12
I do not know ...
Why when the tab (Bloom = 0) speeds up the scene
But the quality of the scene comes down.
And when the tab (Bloom = 1) decreases the scene speed
But the quality goes up.

Question:
Can it be done (Bloom = 1 tab)?
But do not slow down the scene?

Of course, in rendering the new version
If the gg team modifies this setting
We will have better speed and quality ....

Thank you
amir

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SHAHIN3D
7
Years of Service
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Joined: 8th Sep 2017
Playing:
Posted: 14th Dec 2017 13:11
Software: easy to build and change the texture PBR

see :
https://forum.game-guru.com/thread/219086
amir
Belidos
3D Media Maker
9
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 23rd Nov 2015
Playing: The Game
Posted: 14th Dec 2017 13:24
Quote: "I do not know ...
Why when the tab (Bloom = 0) speeds up the scene
But the quality of the scene comes down.
And when the tab (Bloom = 1) decreases the scene speed
But the quality goes up.

Question:
Can it be done (Bloom = 1 tab)?
But do not slow down the scene?

Of course, in rendering the new version
If the gg team modifies this setting
We will have better speed and quality ....

Thank you"


Of course turning bloom on and off is going to effect performance, you're turning an effect on and off, expecting it not to effect performance is like complaining that an empty level is better performance than a level with models in.

Primary Desktop:
i7 7700,k NV1070 8GB, 16GB 3200mhz memory, 1x 2TB Hybrid, Win10.

Secondary Desktop:
i5 4760k, NV960 2GB, 16GB 2333mhz memory, 1x 2TB Hybrid, Win10.

Laptop:
i3, Intel 4000 series graphics, 6GB memory, 1x 500gb HDD, Win8.1.
Tarkus1971
Audio Media Maker
9
Years of Service
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Joined: 24th Feb 2015
Location: England, UK
Posted: 14th Dec 2017 15:52
plenty of bloom here, cartoon and chromatic aberration all from within GG.

Just a quick test level. Running very fast too.

Aftershock Quad Core AMD FM2+ 3.5 GHz 8GB Motherboard and Processor, A7700k apu, Asus GT970 STRIX 4gb Nvidia gfx card.
King Korg Synth, Alesis SR18 Drum Machine, Akai MPX8 sample player, Roland Fantom XA Synth, Axus Digital AXK2 Digital Drum Kit, Novation Ultranova Synth, Waldorf Blofeld Synth, Bluedio Vicotry V Headphones, AKG K141 Studio Headphones, Lenovo Ideapad, with Windows 10 64bit, 8Gb Ram and AMD A10 7th Gen Graphics.

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Moshroom
9
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 18th Jul 2015
Location: Finland
Posted: 14th Dec 2017 16:33
The Big Escape is unplayable. Runtime error, Image 96000 not found. Right mouse button doesn't work in the editor. My unfinished map that previously ran 29 FPS does work, but the frame rate dropped to less than 10 (didn't write the exact number down, sorry). There are white dots appearing in the side of a mountain. Otherwise the graphics look just as they looked previously. The editor looks good, but is very laggy if there is anything on a map.

All in all it's worse now than before the performance update in 2015. Some people are saying that the public preview works better than the current stable version, but for me (among some others) the opposite seems to be true. Maybe there is something in the new version that is handled differently by different hardwares which would explain the discrepancy. Here's my setting:

Intel(R) Core i7.4558, 2.80 GHz
8 GB RAM
Intel Iris 5100
1600x900
Windows 8.1 64 bit

(Toaster? Yes, I know. Please buy my scripts so I get money to buy a better one.)

Unfortunately I don't have more time to public-beta-test this, since I need to continue my work now. Reverted back to the last stable version.
Tarkus1971
Audio Media Maker
9
Years of Service
User Offline
Joined: 24th Feb 2015
Location: England, UK
Posted: 14th Dec 2017 17:27
just seen that lock on the widget does NOT make the locked entity see through
Aftershock Quad Core AMD FM2+ 3.5 GHz 8GB Motherboard and Processor, A7700k apu, Asus GT970 STRIX 4gb Nvidia gfx card.
King Korg Synth, Alesis SR18 Drum Machine, Akai MPX8 sample player, Roland Fantom XA Synth, Axus Digital AXK2 Digital Drum Kit, Novation Ultranova Synth, Waldorf Blofeld Synth, Bluedio Vicotry V Headphones, AKG K141 Studio Headphones, Lenovo Ideapad, with Windows 10 64bit, 8Gb Ram and AMD A10 7th Gen Graphics.

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