Product Chat / Rendering Engine Overhaul - Get Ready For DirectX 11

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Belidos
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Posted: 28th Jun 2017 08:41
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Yup Blenders BSDF is pretty good, it's not as new as people realize, that back end of it's been in there pretty much since around 2.5, but there were no cycles nodes for it, and you had to hook multiple other nodes together to get the same effect, but a few versions back they finally added BSDF, and again recently they revamped the nodes and added the PBSDF node, which simplified it even further and gave more features.

I've only played with it a little because i don't do rendering with, i just use blender to create and output models and the base textures, but from what i've messed about with so far it looks really good.

I'm both for and against PBR being added to GG, on the one hand PBR is just plain awesome compared to basic DNS textures, it brings a whole new level of graphics, but on the other hand it means i will have to learn how to make PBR textures, and i really don't want to relearn everything again

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Posted: 28th Jun 2017 20:16 Edited at: 28th Jun 2017 20:23
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Quote: "i will have to learn how to make PBR textures, and i really don't want to relearn everything again"

As I understand it the textures don't change hugely. Your diffuse (or albedo) remains the same, as does your normal map. The only ones which will be relevant for most people's purposes are the roughness/gloss texture and the dielectric/metallic textures which are similar in a sense to the specular textures we use now. I'v certainly been using specular textures as my roughness for the PBSDF without much issue.

It is most excellent though.
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Posted: 30th Jun 2017 19:05
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Quote: "Lee Update - 30th June 2017

<SNIP>
As the last day in June, and capping off almost two months of progress updates, I am sure there are plenty of users who have no stomach for this level of waiting, and I can only hope these frequent blog posts serve to illustrate the difficulties at the lower-levels of game engine development. I am certain it will be worth the wait, and will ensure GameGuru sits on a better graphics technology moving forward."


I'm sure it will be worth the wait too and am glad you give frequent updates

At the risk of falling into the "nit-picking and moaning" camp, what happened to 'volumetric particles'? I imagine/hope it is because it is much easier to provide this capability with DX11 rather than it has slipped off the deliverable plate? Fingers crossed it's still on the upcoming TODO

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Posted: 30th Jun 2017 23:55
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I thought he was adding volumetric particles alongside the DX11 update, unless I misunderstood his post (first paragraph of the first page of this thread)
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Posted: 1st Jul 2017 02:11
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Following the blog with great interest, also with deep respect on how you manage to go forward so fast despite the problems you encounter.
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 2nd Jul 2017 22:54
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Yes, volumetric particles will be replacing the current limited particle system, backed by the depth read capabilities of DirectX 11 so you don't get that nasty planar clip effect as decals pass into solid geometry. They can be intensive on low-end graphics hardware, but I will look to add some settings so the density of the volumetric effect can be regulated to circumstances. Of course, when VR makes an appearance, I might have to fiddle with this effect again as stereoscopic rendering makes most particle rendering effects (and tree rendering tricks) look pretty silly.
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Posted: 27th Jul 2017 19:23
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I guesstimated that this will probably be released in September sometime. Seems so far to be looking good for that sort of timescale, unless there are issues still to be found.

I'm sure many are waiting on this release now. Not only to see the DX11 speed boost but so other issues can be resolved. AI is still not working well from what I have seen on the forums. I know from experience that they have difficulty with hills when following waypoints and are very intermittent and erratic in this regard. In fact I have ceased all GG work since making RPGMark as the AI drove me bonkers with the hill thing. I'm waiting for fixes and hopefully better speeds all round before I do anything new.
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Posted: 28th Jul 2017 01:11
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Still enjoying the blog very much, thanks for the blog on the progress and info on what you have to do to overhaul the engine Lee

The latest pictures look really great especially with shadows working again.

What i'm curious about is if DX11 will also mean that the flashlight when used will cast shadows when aimed at an item and if a lightsourse when placed can be dynamic without shining through walls?

Or is that another area of the engine?

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Posted: 28th Jul 2017 02:49
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This all sounds great
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Posted: 28th Jul 2017 08:04
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"but so other issues can be resolved. AI is still not working well from what I have seen on the forums."
The AI has a serious bug, not only not working well.
That's why I can not release my game with the actual version. Going back to the February release... Well, there are other bugs...

So all I know at the moment is, that I don't know when I can release my game.... That's a little bit frustrating.


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LeeBamber
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Posted: 28th Jul 2017 12:28
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The shadow casting from flash lights would be another part of the development, but we could probably do something quicker like move the shadow casting light position instead of multiple shadows which would take more time and hit performance. For the first update, I want to focus on performance, with any visuals benefits that come with it. Can you send me a screenshot of a dynamic light shining through a wall using default stock assets, thanks!

Sorry for the frustration on the wait for this major update, it's one of the reasons it's been put off for so long, it's pretty disruptive. The good news is that we only need to do something like this every 5 years or so, meaning once it's done we can focus on building on top of it with the fixes you've been waiting for. Hopefully not much longer now.

I WILL be running beta versions as soon as legacy functionality and visuals have been restored, but before the PBR and FBX importing, so it's possible we could fix the AI issue and any other project show stoppers, and you can use the beta version to complete any projects you have waiting. If you want to be part of this beta process, just let me know at lee@thegamecreators.com
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MooKai
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Posted: 28th Jul 2017 12:51
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I think I'm already in the beta group.
It's just a little bit frustrating, that I don't know, if I have to wait another week, month, 6 months for the first beta...
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Posted: 28th Jul 2017 16:32
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Quote: "I WILL be running beta versions as soon as legacy functionality and visuals have been restored, but before the PBR and FBX importing, so it's possible we could fix the AI issue and any other project show stoppers,"


Lee thanks for all the hard work. .. but maybe you should not release the beta versions, if the PBR and FBX importing is not part off it, i think there is just as many users waiting for that, as there is for the ai fix. At least there was an ai update already in the past but this will be the first time for the importing FBX and PBR. so it would be not so bad to wait a little longer to also have the FBX and PBR at the same release.

Thanks again for all the hard work.
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Belidos
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Posted: 28th Jul 2017 17:25
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Quote: "[this will be the first time for the importing FBX"


Erm nope, Lee worked on the FBX imports for quite a while a while a few updates ago, hence why we now have a rudimentary FBX import already.

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UNIRD12B
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Posted: 28th Jul 2017 20:11
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easy answer to your question ( July 28th ) today LEE.....

RELEASE the update soon so we can benefit right away from the great
changes you've made and then just release the new stuff and additions to the DX11
as you see fit.

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Posted: 28th Jul 2017 21:09
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I agree, waiting for extra import options is really not needed, as long as it is still done and we can update at that time. Who would want to wait for all of them if you don't have to?

I'm also glad that the implementation of DX11 has made a decent improvement in speed I couldn't see how updating to a more modern graphics api would do anything else, especially as hardware has supported DX11 for ages now. Now I'm waiting on a better lighting system As said the flashlight as it stands is next to useless, it doesn't work that well and if you drop the shader quality down it fails to work on many objects at all. Not forgetting it won't even light up water. Lighting for me is where Unreal et all beat GG hands down. Lee had some exciting things to say about DX11 lighting when he first dabbled with it ages back. Something about thousands of lights I'd be happy with a fairly unlimited amount of real time light sources.

Not sure when this will happen or if it is on the list as a to do item, but once we have better lighting Game Guru will start to look way more impressive.
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Posted: 28th Jul 2017 23:10
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agree with DVader, a good lighting system could boost the visual quality of GG games
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cybernescence
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Posted: 29th Jul 2017 00:26
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Please release in stages - such a large change with more to follow would probably be best checked incrementally

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Posted: 29th Jul 2017 00:47
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I hope next release fixing standalone bugs.
Thanks Mr Lee for the hard work you do.

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Posted: 29th Jul 2017 08:23
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ok. looks like i was wrong Lee , sorry then go ahead, give , give. we are waiting.
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Belidos
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Posted: 29th Jul 2017 08:44
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I agree , give it to us to beta bit by bit so we can check it piece by piece, well be able to test more thoroughly that way.

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Posted: 29th Jul 2017 10:51
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looks like, we all really waiting for the new release.
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Posted: 29th Jul 2017 11:07
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I think for a one man team the time this upgrade has taken so far is fantastic,I can wait a little longer.i think the time is coming for me to actually make a game .

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Posted: 29th Jul 2017 16:38
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i have been trying to make a game for the last year, but every idea i have come up with , or map i have build just dont feel good enough. i will keep on trying until i am happy with it.
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Posted: 29th Jul 2017 17:07
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This all sounds like excellent news Lee!
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Posted: 29th Jul 2017 17:31
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Yeah, bring it on already!

Haven't used the importer even once yet - good old copy to GG directory works fine, and I know where all my custom media is going to boot....

Lol - Lee is one super coder, surely he must be doing summersaults to get as far as he has already with this update!

Can't wait to have models look as good in Game Guru as they do in Quixel or Substance.....

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Posted: 29th Jul 2017 18:02
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Is there a precise date for this upgrade?
Thank you Lee for the great work you are doing.

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Posted: 29th Jul 2017 19:02
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"Is there a precise date for this upgrade?"
When it's done... I guess
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Posted: 29th Jul 2017 21:53
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Quote: "Is there a precise date for this upgrade?"

Nothing Concrete ... Guesstimates at best if they are mentioned
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Posted: 31st Jul 2017 16:15
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My aim is to upgrade my system and get familiar with WIN10, when this is accomplished i'll certainly will be happy to become part of beta testing.
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Posted: 31st Jul 2017 21:52
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This is going to be epic!
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Posted: 10th Aug 2017 06:15 Edited at: 10th Aug 2017 13:19
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The latest news on dx11 is great news and the fbx update sounds great,
the news of being able to get pbr textures into GG is a massive bonus for better content.
i love the way lee has dedicated a lot of time and work for the new update and am sure everyone will
appreciate were lee is taking game guru. i hope i get chance to beta the new update,
i am going to try doing some small pbr content to test when pbr is available,
will this fbx import feature more bones ?.
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Posted: 10th Aug 2017 18:51
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Hi lee ,
according to the latest forum news..
have you changed your mind on this statement you made recently ?........

" I WILL be running beta versions as soon as legacy functionality and visuals have been restored, but before the PBR and FBX importing, so it's possible we could fix the AI issue and any other project show stoppers, and you can use the beta version to complete any projects you have waiting. "

Just wondering,,,,

Thx

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Posted: 10th Aug 2017 19:05
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@UNIRD12B : I still have a few scraps left to sort out, including custom terrain and EBE textures, the light mapper and some fixes. Once I can go through the whole software and see that everything works as before, I will be starting the internal beta whilst I move onto FBX and PBR
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Posted: 10th Aug 2017 19:18
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Thx AGAIN LEE ,
great news..as is so often the case lately.

NEXT time can you TRY to answer QUICKER ! ( JOKE !!! )
I had to wait almost 3 or 4 minutes for a response.

Thx

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Posted: 11th Aug 2017 17:05
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Great work Lee
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Posted: 16th Aug 2017 20:06
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moving fast on the fbx import, sounding great pbr and animation.
great work lee looking forward to the new update, to be honest i am gobsmacked
at the pace you are going,
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LeeBamber
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Posted: 17th Aug 2017 09:53 Edited at: 17th Aug 2017 09:53
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Some would argue I have a lot of catching up to do, which in reality is akin to coding at the same pace as a room full of AAA coders I think if you enjoy doing something, you get an extra burst of energy to help you along. Even after 30 years, I still get a kick out of coding!
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Posted: 17th Aug 2017 12:11 Edited at: 17th Aug 2017 12:12
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Keep up the good work, Lee.

It's amazing that you're alone (or almost) working on this.
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Posted: 17th Aug 2017 14:24
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Amazing work Lee, great
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Posted: 17th Aug 2017 21:08 Edited at: 17th Aug 2017 21:08
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Thank you Lee
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Posted: 18th Aug 2017 10:13
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amazing work Lee, progress is very quick too, I know it's early days but what sort of fps increase are you seeing in the dx11 build?
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Posted: 18th Aug 2017 16:16
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The new load time of 9 seconds compared to 40 on your rig bodes well I have a little test map ready and waiting to see how performance improves ;p
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Posted: 18th Aug 2017 19:34
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Nice,
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Posted: 21st Aug 2017 16:46 Edited at: 1st Sep 2017 23:48
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Excellent work Ninja Lee

for anyone interested here is a basic introduction to what PBR is and can do, not sure if GG version will be the same but it gives you an idea if you have never heard of Physically Based Rendering before.

Welcome to the real world!
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Posted: 23rd Aug 2017 23:56
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Thanks for the update Lee sounds good.

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Posted: 24th Aug 2017 12:20
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Yes, great work Lee.

By the way since you are messing with the light mapping system, could you please invoke a dialog box when hitting any of the keys to start the lightmap process, so we can just cancel out of it before it starts its thing.

The old method is just plain annoying, since you can easily start the process by accident.

I would have thought it would be better to have one key invoke a dialog box (say F1), and then you can select from there what level of light mapping you want to do, or Cancel it all together (which is always what I want to do).

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Posted: 28th Aug 2017 21:31
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lol totally agree here I've done that soooo many times
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Posted: 29th Aug 2017 00:05 Edited at: 29th Aug 2017 00:07
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I too have done that so many times and I am still doing it so many times.
Once the light mapping gets started, because I have hit one of the required keys by mistake, it takes so long to quit the function.
A solution similar to the above would make my world just a little less complicated.

Some day, maybe, huh?

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Posted: 8th Sep 2017 19:21 Edited at: 8th Sep 2017 19:23
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OOH pbr on a roll now ,
looking forward to this update great work
lee, can we still hope on more bones for characters,
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