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synchromesh
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Posted: 29th Jan 2017 22:41 Edited at: 29th Jan 2017 23:02
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Quote: "Its expected. Unity and Unreal are free and Game Guru is not. So the expectations are much higher. "


Well not really ..To be fair Unreal was only announced free in 2015 and isn't quite Royalty free ... There's a lot more to that than you think once you start reading the small print ...

As for Unity ... as quoted on their Website ..

Unity Personal .. All the features for beginners & hobbyists to get started... and is not Royalty free .
Then Unity Plus at $35 a month ... and is not royalty free
Then the Unity pro and above will cost you $125 a month for the privilege ..Enterpise version being more .. That however is royalty free...For those prices that's where the expectations are higher..

Its funny how the word "Free" is always taken so literally ... Nothings for free in the real world ... Its more a case of Free to use would be a better description ...... Been around to long to be sucked in by that one
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Jerry Tremble
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Posted: 29th Jan 2017 23:25
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Quote: ".To be fair Unreal was only announced free in 2015 and isn't quite Royalty free"


Yep, I was paying $30/month for over a year for the privilege to use it. You'd think at that price, the rest would all be royalty free, lol. Kinda akin to saying, "I will rent you this pencil, but I will retain a partial copyright to everything that you write with it, and if your work sells, I get a 5% royalty. Looking forward to the checks. Nice doing business with you!"

Like you said, nothing is free. (actually there ARE some freeware/open source applications that come "no strings attached" (Blender, Open Office, Libre Office, etc, but for the most part, there usually are strings) I have never been a fan of "software as a service" and while much of the industry is moving in that direction, I was surprised and quite pleased ($30/month freed up!) when UE4 actually went in the opposite direction. Just let me buy the damn tool and allow me to build what I will with it in my own time and don't expect anything more in return.
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synchromesh
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Posted: 29th Jan 2017 23:53
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Quote: "(actually there ARE some freeware/open source applications that come "no strings attached" (Blender, Open Office, Libre Office, etc, but for the most part, there usually are strings)"

Yes your right there .. I stand corrected .... I was probably going with the most part
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smallg
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Posted: 30th Jan 2017 10:36
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But once more of the engine is complete and lua implemented along with it it would be pretty easy for Lee (or someone else) to add a way to do everything you could in fpi in lua just as easily, it's just a case of when, like everything else... Even if we still had fpi now there would be lots of missing commands so we'd be able to do even less than we currently can.
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Mouaa
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Posted: 30th Jan 2017 10:48
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Quote: " I was surprised and quite pleased ($30/month freed up!) when UE4 actually went in the opposite direction"

Unreal spend lot of money for research and development, it's a win win situation, you pay 5% on what exceeds 3000$ per quarter.
If you make 4000$ in a quater you will pay 5% from 1000$ = 50$, you pay only when your product makes good sales.

Open source, subs , Royalties is only a matter of preference, it should not dictate you what software to use for a project.
Teabone
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 07:08 Edited at: 31st Jan 2017 07:14
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Quote: "Well not really .."


I'm not speaking for myself I was speaking from the perspective of the Steam users. They have a higher expectation because the software is not free. That is why they also compare it to Unity and Unreal. I understand the difference and the great benefit GG has with its user licensing. I have stated many times that Game-Guru needs to advertise its unique licensing difference from these two programs.

Quote: "Its funny how the word "Free" is always taken so literally ... Nothings for free in the real world ... Its more a case of Free to use would be a better description ...... Been around to long to be sucked in by that one
"


This is the problem with the Steam users. They don't understand this. Mostly because none of them even really understand the licensing restrictions that come with Unity and Unreal because they have not actually brought anything into market.
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 11:51 Edited at: 31st Jan 2017 17:43
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Quote: "I understand the difference and the great benefit GG has with its user licensing. I have stated many times that Game-Guru needs to advertise its unique licensing difference from these two programs."

There is other small 3D Engines with same licensing as GG like Neo Axis, S2Engine etc ...
Do you think you'll make 100 000$ a year with Untiy for example ? If you make it paying the Pro version should be your last worry LOL
It's a win win situation, they allow you to be successfull and you give back some money when you are succesfull.

GG benefits are not the licensing , i think users majority won't sell games.
Actually it's the "easy game maker" , you drag and drop models, player and characters with AI and press run button and you have a running game without coding, and the easy character creator.
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 19:22
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Quote: "Actually it's the "easy game maker" , you drag and drop models, player and characters with AI and press run button and you have a running game without coding, and the easy character creator."

If GG were as unity you would lose all this.
I personally instead of thinking what I could do with the things that GG does not have, I'd rather think what I can do with the things GG have.
To mature as a person is to accept things as they are, although they are not always like you would like them to be.
Just my thoughs.

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Mouaa
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 21:31 Edited at: 31st Jan 2017 21:35
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Quote: "To mature as a person is to accept things as they are, although they are not always like you would like them to be"

Indeed.
I use other software, so i won't insist about GG features, this is why instead of asking something, i just dropped some ideas in" Feature Request" thread lol

I don't use it so much now, it is too much hard coded for my taste , and too much frustrating as it is hardly customisable in many ways.
But i think there is lot of demand from beginners for something like GG , i seen more than 600 positive reviews on Steam
Perhaps GG should stay as it is about model packs and pre made gameplay.

Lot of us gave ideas on what we think could be improved, it's all up to Lee now as this is it's software and only him choose what directions to take with it.
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 22:37 Edited at: 31st Jan 2017 22:39
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Free, not free, free...
GG is on sale at the moment... 50% off = 9,99 EUR
If I go on the weekend eat with my friends, I or we pay normally much more than 200.- EUR... so come on guys 10.- EUR?
The latest COD always has a price tag around 50-60 EUR and here some complain about 10 Euro for 20, 100, 400, 800+ hrs of fun.

And maybe the chance to create a nice new little game... which is then yours, royalty free.
And if you don't like it after 50 hrs... what you lost? 10 Euro.

Mouaa, I see you always like to play with the fire here ...
Old school FPS fan, DOOM!!! Why GG not working on my AMIGA 500?
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Mouaa
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 22:53 Edited at: 31st Jan 2017 22:54
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Quote: "Mouaa, I see you always like to play with the fire here ..."

I am just giving my opinion on what to improve and make it better.
( hint for you : You should see me less and less on G G forums lol )
Duchenkuke
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 23:02 Edited at: 31st Jan 2017 23:04
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Quote: ""If I go on the weekend eat with my friends, I or we pay normally much more than 200.- EUR... so come on guys 10.- EUR?
The latest COD always has a price tag around 50-60 EUR and here some complain about 10 Euro for 20, 100, 400, 800+ hrs of fun.""


wonderful statement. On point.
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MooKai
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Posted: 31st Jan 2017 23:45
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Mouaa, you always come around the corner what UE4 and Unity do better.
I guess most of us know, that both engines are for the pro market and with a little army of coders/artists in the background.
GG is more for the indies & hobbyist, the royalty free business not work with this engine.
Most of the users will only play around with it (coz it's the easy game maker (let's try and see..)) , some will create some freeware games, or some steam games. But nothing which will generate 20 million sold copies...

Epic make their money with the AAA Studios and sometimes with an outstanding indie title.
They don't care, if 500k+ users are just playing around (or learn) with this engine.
5-8 AAA titles (with their licensed UE4) with million sold copies is enough for them per year...
Same is valid for Unity.

GG is not for AAA titles, there're still a lot of features missing or unfinished.
You know that, we know that, the GG dev team know that.
But keep in mind, they're a much smaller company than Epic, they can not hire some extra 10 coders...

Btw. you should continue playing with the fire... hahaha that will keep the forum alive hahahaha







Old school FPS fan, DOOM!!! Why GG not working on my AMIGA 500?
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Mouaa
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Posted: 1st Feb 2017 00:01 Edited at: 17th Feb 2017 18:03
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Quote: "GG is more for the indies & hobbyist"

I know, but i expected more seeing video adverts before i baught it, now it's clear.

Quote: "Btw. you should continue playing with the fire... hahaha that will keep the forum alive hahahaha"

I don't have no more time for forums, i let you the responsability to replace me and make forums animation lol
MooKai
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Posted: 1st Feb 2017 00:11
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Lol, I'm not on fire anymore... I'm too old
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 1st Feb 2017 00:13
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Something about a door on the way out.
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granada
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Posted: 1st Feb 2017 11:33
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Quote: "Something about a door on the way out.
"

O yes .

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arfur9
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Posted: 17th Feb 2017 16:25 Edited at: 17th Feb 2017 16:25
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I posted my review.. you wanted honesty
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granada
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Posted: 17th Feb 2017 16:39
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@arfur9
Very good and honest review there.

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synchromesh
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Posted: 17th Feb 2017 20:00 Edited at: 17th Feb 2017 20:02
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Quote: "I posted my review.. you wanted honesty "

Agreed ... Great review ...Listing the good, the bad and then a fair conclusion from that ...
Even if it was negative its constructive and gives Lee good information ...I wish most were more like this rather than stupid one liners that usually are a complaint about just one thing ...

BTW... Steam Review Badge added
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 17th Feb 2017 20:02
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How come I haven't got any badges? Is there a clever richard of the month badge?
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synchromesh
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Posted: 17th Feb 2017 20:04
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Quote: "How come I haven't got any badges? Is there a clever richard of the month badge? "

Hmmm .. Let me look into that for you
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granada
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Posted: 17th Feb 2017 20:06
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@ AmenMoses
You deserve a brain box badge,for all that Japanese language you keep talking about LOL.(only joking)

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synchromesh
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Posted: 17th Feb 2017 20:07
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I do think your work should be recognised ..... Working on it
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AmenMoses
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Posted: 17th Feb 2017 20:08
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Lua is Brazilian, no not that kind, calm down.
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arfur9
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Posted: 17th Feb 2017 20:32
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Thanks, and thank you for the badge

I thought of a lot more positive stuff afterwards lol but all the stupid bad reviews are just pointless, I should of said with the DLC and examples you can build a better game than Doom (I see people getting the hangman's noose!) without even trying, coding or buying more content, there's enough there to make something to impress friends.
The negative reviews I really don't know what people expect, there is no magic wand, if you can't do "something" in GG, you stand no chance with anything else
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Belidos
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Posted: 17th Feb 2017 21:24
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Very nice review Arfur, plenty of good points, very balanced.

Quote: "How come I haven't got any badges? Is there a clever richard of the month badge?"


If he gets the clever Richard badge can I have a badge called "all fingers and thumbs"

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Len the man
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Posted: 17th Feb 2017 22:05
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I think the LUA editor is in the works, but likely at a far future date....

There is so much good free scripts here in the forum and stuff for sale in the TGC store, that I give it all 2 thumbs up... both for Lee and synchromesh... and great scripters like smallg.
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Posted: 18th Feb 2017 05:01 Edited at: 18th Feb 2017 05:16
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You forgeting something importand with GG its posible to ctreate a game single handed In unreal engine you need at least a team of 10 to make something playable(Have you seen the matterial node editor is insane yes you can do almost everything but you need at least one person to handle matterials only.As for unit is an unreal engine whanabe with crapy performance.best let it for developing mobile games.I never liked unity.
GG just need a little more freedom over cameras player movement raycasting comands and it will be mutch better specialy when 1.5 will beout with the improved AI.
Although i dont understand some things in game guru I dont realy know but i think it will be very easy to add custom grid sun direction and other small stuff that resticts uou like for example be able to rotate move using numbers to be more precise or the fact that you ca not pain 2 or 3 diferent type of grasses.Or a button to make mouse movement more sensitive again for persision like now a single move of the mouse using the widget moves the entity very far so it will be grat if preshing shift and moving the widget the entity will move a lot slower.And more option tabs you spend mutch more time adjusting the fpe file than usin guru specialy if you have alot of assets to import.O and i almost forget full cameta control when you editing colision boxes.
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arfur9
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Posted: 18th Feb 2017 09:34
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I can think of 3 Kickstarter games that went on to use Unity and after wasting a lot of time ended up going back to their original choice of software only one has gone on to Unreal
I know loads of people dabbling with both Unity and Unreal but I'm yet to see a game or presentation done with them

I think when you try and make a game on your own you need to level the playing field so you can achieve something and GG does offer that, one thing I really miss is some sort of live script editing or error reporting, I had an error which was a easy fix but for some reason I had to restart GG to get it o work, I wasted quite a bit of time looking for a problem that wasn't there
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Mouaa
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Posted: 18th Feb 2017 16:39 Edited at: 18th Feb 2017 18:55
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Quote: " In unreal engine you need at least a team of 10 to make something playable"

Nope Sir,
You buy "Third person Kit" in the market place and start replacing and adding models to make your own game.
There is also characters and models packs available.
About materials it's drag and drop of your texture in the right channels (diffuse,normal, rought,metal) why it is more complex ?
For terrain there is shader templates all over internet, you download or copy a BP and start drag and drop your diffuse,normal ,specualr, emissive etc .. textures for terrain.
For characters you only need to import a rigged model, there is re targetting animation option, you can even make your character animations in Unreal lol
I think you exagerated a lot like many users that never made a game in Unreal or never learned the basics.

I agree to start "modding" a template game kit in Unreal, you must learn many tools and new concepts, also there is hundred of parameters for each feature, and this won't appeal to lot of GG users that needs less options and prefer a software with less butttons and options everywhere lol
smallg
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Posted: 18th Feb 2017 21:16
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yh i like unreal but making an indoor level seemed impossible with anything but the most basic of room types, collision just refused to be accurate enough and so AI wouldn't understand how to navigate through archs and such.
i must agree that texture set up is confusing but it does work and it's confusing because it gives a ton of options, once you get the basic set up in place it's easy enough though and the drag and drop to any object in real time is nice.

i wouldn't say it takes any more or less people than GG, you just need to take the time to learn - which naturally takes longer than with GG because there's a lot more to learn.
having said that, i still prefer GG and the direction it's going will give a much easier and faster end result (i don't kid myself in thinking i can spend years developing a game so i don't care about all the fancy extras unreal or whatever other top engine can do).
lua guide for GG
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synchromesh
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Posted: 18th Feb 2017 21:48 Edited at: 18th Feb 2017 21:50
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Quote: "Nope Sir,
You buy "Third person Kit" in the market place "

The one I saw recommended is around £70 .... Kind of puts me off before I start ..
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Mouaa
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Posted: 18th Feb 2017 23:35 Edited at: 18th Feb 2017 23:43
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Quote: "The one I saw recommended is around £70 .... Kind of puts me off before I start .."

It's called clever investment.
But if your project is pure hobby and does not target commercial bigger market , indeed you should not spend 80 bucks until you need it.
Just saying there is already lot of game templates not so hard to use for people ready to learn some more tools and some more complex interfaces lol
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